David Mack Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Canalplan suggests that the Red House, 1.5 miles above Stratford is the Limit of Navigation. But 20 years ago I took a 40 foot hire boat right up to Alveston Weir, a mile further on and winded just below the weir. Does anybody know how far I might get a Big Woolwich? And would I have to reverse back to the Red House to wind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6767 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Canalplan suggests that the Red House, 1.5 miles above Stratford is the Limit of Navigation. But 20 years ago I took a 40 foot hire boat right up to Alveston Weir, a mile further on and winded just below the weir. Does anybody know how far I might get a Big Woolwich? And would I have to reverse back to the Red House to wind? Last summer I chickened out at the corner by the "red house", it looked quite overgrown with trees past there. I too would be interested if I felt brave and carried on, what is it like by the weir, is there any room to turn, it is hard to tell on google maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted September 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Last summer I chickened out at the corner by the "red house", it looked quite overgrown with trees past there. I too would be interested if I felt brave and carried on, what is it like by the weir, is there any room to turn, it is hard to tell on google maps. Somebody goes up above the Red House. I see from Bing Aerial photos that there's a house a bit further up with a private dock with a narrow boat moored in it. See http://binged.it/1r9Qby9 . And the river looks fairly wide for some distance further on, (although not wide enough to wind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenA Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Red house is the official head of navigation and has warnings just before it: Note that is says it is the limit for "unauthorised" craft and not for all craft... which suggests that it is possible (and the private dock shows that it probably is) Also as there are "plans" to make the river navigable up to Alveston and beyond then it implies the river is potentially navigable for quite some way. Edited September 17, 2014 by StephenA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Is there really any point in going up beyond the signs that say it's the end of navigation? You're only going to get a few hundred yards up if you're lucky, there's nowhere to moor and then you're going to have to reverse back. The risk is that you become grounded and then require somebody else's help to get you out of trouble. Why not just heed the warnings? Edited September 17, 2014 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hayes Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 You can take a 58ft up to the weir and turn it in the pool below the weir. Getting the last little bit up to the weir involve a few revs as the channel is narrow and the flow can be strong, having said that you come back down like a bullet I wouldn't go up on your own but with others, just in case you need assistance. I have some photos somewhere from two years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Is there really any point in going up beyond the signs that say it's the end of navigation? You're only going to get a few hundred yards up if you're lucky, there's nowhere to moor and then you're going to have to reverse back. The risk is that you become grounded and then require somebody else's help to get you out of trouble. Why not just heed the warnings? Where's your sense of adventure Mike! Clearly you have never felt the gut-wrenching fear of being stuck under a bridge on a tidal river you were advised might be a bit tricky... (Bow Back Rivers 1999) Or found that dodging those rocks in the channel is rather more tricky going downstream than it was on the way up (River Swale 2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Where's your sense of adventure Mike! Clearly you have never felt the gut-wrenching fear of being stuck under a bridge on a tidal river you were advised might be a bit tricky... (Bow Back Rivers 1999) Or found that dodging those rocks in the channel is rather more tricky going downstream than it was on the way up (River Swale 2006) If I want adventure I'll take my boat out on the tidal Thames or across the Bristol channel, not a few hundred yards up the unnavigable dead end of a river! It's whatever makes you happy I guess, but to me it seems a bit like taking your car down a dirt track with signs that say "unsuitable for motor vehicles". I don't really see the point in doing what they specifically tell you not to do. However I'm prepared to have a go at this sort of behavior, so perhaps I'll start with small steps and try leaving all the lock gates open or mooring on lock landings and see how I get on. Edited September 17, 2014 by blackrose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 However I'm prepared to have a go at this sort of behavior, so perhaps I'll start with small steps and try leaving all the lock gates open or mooring on lock landings and see how I get on. arse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Tried it in a very small cruiser 2 weeks ago, and the extent of weed growth put me off going far beyond Red House, based on my experience on the Thames last year, when I went well beyond Lechlade, but got bogged down in weed growth and overgrowing trees half way to Cricklade. It is fun but turning round in a fairly swift current and a weed strewn prop is not straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenA Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think pushing to the official head of navigation is something people should do - like we did when we went up to Kempston Mill but that did involve us reversing for quite some way (using the boat pole at the bow to steer us like a punt). But The Red House is the official head of navigation for now and pushing beyond that in anything bigger than a small boat just seems to be asking for trouble especially given that warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) However I'm prepared to have a go at this sort of behavior, so perhaps I'll start with small steps and try leaving all the lock gates open or mooring on lock landings and see how I get on. arse Perhaps you should try developing a sense of humour. twat Edited September 18, 2014 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6767 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 There is not really a clear message from ANT on the head on navigation http://www.avonnavigationtrust.org/index.php?id=4 which states Alveston weir. The map linked to from that page does state "Safe limit of navigation" on what looks to be the corner at the Red House though. I think after the Stratford River Festival in 2013, ANT were suggesting trips up to the weir in pairs, push-me-pull-you style for the last part so you did not need to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well, according to the GPS track we got to here: This is well beyond the Red House and the boat dock, and close to the "safe limit of navigation" on the ANT map. We grounded on the east side as we tried to pass a willow tree growing out from the west bank. Fairly sure that if we had cut the tree back a bit we could have got through in deeper water, but it looked much shallower a short distance ahead, and as there were only two of us to poll off if (when) we got stuck, we decided it was time to go back. This is where we ended up, stern aground, and the bows pushed across to the west side by the current. Having got ourselves off, it was easy to steer in reverse back to the bend at the Red House where there was more than enough room to wind a full length boat, and about 10 foot depth of water. We didn't see the sign in post #4, or any indication at all that we shouldn't carry on. If there had been more of us to unstick the boat we would have gone on further. Finally, Many thanks to Mike (Blackrose) for letting us tie up alongside the previous night so we could get to the Cottage of Content at Barton. Nice local pub, but almost completely inaccessible from any public mooring on the river! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Is there really any point in going up beyond the signs that say it's the end of navigation? You're only going to get a few hundred yards up if you're lucky, there's nowhere to moor and then you're going to have to reverse back. The risk is that you become grounded and then require somebody else's help to get you out of trouble. Why not just heed the warnings? If you don't the head of navigation just gets closer and closer to the source. This has happened on the Cam, The Lark and The Wissey for starters, then move to the Broads with the Waveney and Bure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Well, according to the GPS track we got to here: This is well beyond the Red House and the boat dock, and close to the "safe limit of navigation" on the ANT map. We grounded on the east side as we tried to pass a willow tree growing out from the west bank. Fairly sure that if we had cut the tree back a bit we could have got through in deeper water, but it looked much shallower a short distance ahead, and as there were only two of us to poll off if (when) we got stuck, we decided it was time to go back. This is where we ended up, stern aground, and the bows pushed across to the west side by the current. Looks about right; we reached a point where the weir could be heard, but not seen. Edited October 1, 2014 by Tacet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 WHY WAS BRITAIN GREAT because of the David Macks well done sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 WHY WAS BRITAIN GREAT because of the David Macks well done sir. Thank you Sir!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Sorry had run out of meagre issue of greenies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Found the photo from November 2011; hard to judge but if the tree had not been down maybe you could have got further? I don't think we ground to a halt, as such, but the level ahead looked rather reduced and the velocity of the flow was already destined to make reversing interesting, The top of the Great Ouse, beyond Bedford is a nice too. In a narrowboat you quickly run out of depth a hundred yards or so below Kempston Mill, which is a shame, because there is probably room to turn at the Mil and the reversing is again quite a challenge with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scholar Gypsy Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Found the photo from November 2011; hard to judge but if the tree had not been down maybe you could have got further? I don't think we ground to a halt, as such, but the level ahead looked rather reduced and the velocity of the flow was already destined to make reversing interesting, The top of the Great Ouse, beyond Bedford is a nice too. In a narrowboat you quickly run out of depth a hundred yards or so below Kempston Mill, which is a shame, because there is probably room to turn at the Mil and the reversing is again quite a challenge with the flow. I agree re the Bedford Ouse. The railway bridges were quite low, but we managed. But I couldn't get that close to the Mill this summer - there was a lot of tree growth around the island marked here. The left hand channel had better headroom but no water; and vice versa. Blog here. Here we are moored up for lunch at the Adventure Activity Centre at that point, having turned around. We also met the widebeam John Bunyan trip boat, fortunately on a wide straight section. Edited October 2, 2014 by Scholar Gypsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I agree re the Bedford Ouse. The railway bridges were quite low, but we managed. But I couldn't get that close to the Mill this summer - there was a lot of tree growth around the island marked here. The left hand channel had better headroom but no water; and vice versa. Blog here. Here we are moored up for lunch at the Adventure Activity Centre at that point, having turned around. We also met the widebeam John Bunyan trip boat, fortunately on a wide straight section. I got to the end if the island watching the bottom come towards the top in the clear water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I got to the end if the island watching the bottom come towards the top in the clear water Yes - if you look in the foreground of the picture, you'll see the gravel bottom. The riverbed shelved very quickly across its whole width. I doubt that it is possible for a conventionally proportioned narrowboat to reach the pool below Kempston Mill; if there were sufficient depth upsteam, you wouldn't make it under the railway bridge - but I would like to be proved wrong, I suppose you could squeeze under the bridge and wait for the river to flood; somewhat extreme and the flow would be very lively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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