If I do this, will they laugh me out of the room?

[Dyertribe]

I hope it's fully Flame retardant !.

Well, you'd know if he was a hairy a**ed welder!

[Dyertribe]

Ally, I think you'd be excellent in the role of designer-advisor and possibly during-build inspector (do you have to be a boat surveyor? If so could you get that qual?)

There is a gap in the market for an advisory service that is knowledgeable but neutral to help would-be buyers decide. Good for people in the initial-interim planning stages like Marjorie, and good for the builders people end up with as they don't then have to unravel impractical ideas but can get on with fine-tuning the details according to their own house style and expertise. Certainly if I was in the market for a new boat now I'd be trying to offer you money for this kind of service to help me navigate the many choices to make about builder and build. It's lovely you do it for free, but you could definitely make at least a part time business out of it!

Beacon Boatbuilding Advisory Services Ltd.

Go for it!

Afterthought edit - as you are not competition, many boatbuilders might be happy to refer customer enquiries to you to help people refine plans. It would save them time and money. You could develop a list of top/middle range partners to work with. Worth approaching a few builders to see if they would be interested in this kind of service. Either for referring customers for independent advice, or for paying you themselves to work up details with those already committed.

 

When building a house many people employ project managers. Ally could become the boaty equivalent, sourcing the more esoteric items perhaps? Qualifying as a surveyor would seem logical too. An interior design (soft furnishings etc) might be attractive to some clients as well as sourcing space saving equipment and suitable 12v electrical items.

[Ally]

OK, I'm pondering hard!!

 

Throwing up a few ideas here and in my own head, it will take some thinking about and sorting, but I have a summer to do so.

 

Meanwhile, best not hijack this thread!!

[Paul C]

In the meantime, have a play around with this:

 

http://www.narrowboats.org/narrowboat_layout.aspx

[Marjorie]

Hijack away

 

(I think narrowboat building consultant is a great idea!)

 

I'm sorry that my asking questions and wanting to explore all the possibilities open to me have led some to believe I'm completely clueless - I'm really not, I just don't believe in there only being one way to skin a cat.

 

Actually, the sending emails to ask for quotes was suggested to me by a narrowboater of almost two decades experience, it just sounded counterintuitive to me, so I thought I'd see what you all thought.

 

As far as not understanding narrowboats goes, or how boat builders operate, I will admit to not seeing what is so different about having a narrowboat built vs. any other type of boat. If I'm left uncertain about anything, it's that.

 

Thanks for your advice - for the most part all very sensible, of course.

[Marjorie]

Apart from little matters like the engine and the frightening prices you have to pay for solid oak and ash and quality veneered ply, it's four months work (admittedly whilst building one or two other boats as well) for a team of six craftsmen, three of whom at least are some of the best in the business and have about 100 years experience between them.

 

You don't have to use solid oak and ash though, do you. As far as paying for craftsmanship, I completely believe in paying a good price for years of skills and experience (I ought to, being a jeweller).

 

We're currently fitting out a 54 metre long, 6metre wide Dutch cargo barge, to a mid/ high end spec, and are looking at around £100k all in. Admittedly, a smaller team (2-3 people at different stages, all skilled craftsmen, and me making the tea) and a much longer project (roughly 3 years from shell to home). It surprises me that narrowboats are so very different to this.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Marjorie

[Paul G2]

I'm sorry that my asking questions and wanting to explore all the possibilities open to me have led some to believe I'm completely clueless - I'm really not, I just don't believe in there only being one way to skin a cat.

 

 

I have a tendency to chew on my toenails from time to time. I didn't mean to insinuate that you are clueless and I apologize that it came out sounding that way.

 

[Marjorie]

On second reading, it's possible I got a bit upset about nothing very much at all....

Edited June 6, 2014 by Marjorie

[BruceinSanity]

Apart from little matters like the engine and the frightening prices you have to pay for solid oak and ash and quality veneered ply, it's four months work (admittedly whilst building one or two other boats as well) for a team of six craftsmen, three of whom at least are some of the best in the business and have about 100 years experience between them.

 

You don't have to use solid oak and ash though, do you. As far as paying for craftsmanship, I completely believe in paying a good price for years of skills and experience (I ought to, being a jeweller).

 

We're currently fitting out a 54 metre long, 6metre wide Dutch cargo barge, to a mid/ high end spec, and are looking at around £100k all in. Admittedly, a smaller team (2-3 people at different stages, all skilled craftsmen, and me making the tea) and a much longer project (roughly 3 years from shell to home). It surprises me that narrowboats are so very different to this.

 

Materials choice is one of the things you decide when you choose a builder. I should also have pointed out that £1550x58= £89900. All the rest of the money goes straight to that nice Mr Osbourne. The VAT loss is one reason why the initial depreciation on a new boat is so steep.

 

The constrictions of a narrowboat shape do present challenges over and above those of fitting out a wider boat, both in design and execution.

[MtB]

The constrictions of a narrowboat shape do present challenges over and above those of fitting out a wider boat, both in design and execution.

 

 

I'll second that. Trying to carry out work on a narrowboat with even one other tradesman inside the boat with you, let alone two or three, is a hiding to nothing. Even if he isn't in your way, you'll be in his every 45 seconds.

 

I used to refuse to carry out gas installation in the end unless I had the whole boat to myself. (A good way to achieve this is to work in the evening when all the other guys have gone home.)

 

It's far less of a problem when fitting out a 'normal' width boat.

 

MtB

[Felshampo]

 

 

We're currently fitting out a 54 metre long, 6metre wide Dutch cargo barge, to a mid/ high end spec, and are looking at around £100k all in. Admittedly, a smaller team (2-3 people at different stages, all skilled craftsmen, and me making the tea) and a much longer project (roughly 3 years from shell to home). It surprises me that narrowboats are so very different to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's no wonder so many boat builders go out of business with margins like this!

Edited June 7, 2014 by Felshampo

[Marjorie]

We're currently fitting out a 54 metre long, 6metre wide Dutch cargo barge, to a mid/ high end spec, and are looking at around £100k all in. Admittedly, a smaller team (2-3 people at different stages, all skilled craftsmen, and me making the tea) and a much longer project (roughly 3 years from shell to home). It surprises me that narrowboats are so very different to this.

 

 

It's no wonder so many boat builders go out of business with margins like this!

We're not doing it in quite the same way as you might a narrowboat, from what I am gathering.

 

We employ a number of the craftsfolk from the marina we live on to come and do the bits they are best at, usually at an hourly rate (sometimes a whole job rate, depending on the type of work and their preference), and are buying all the materials ourselves (so lots of reclaiming - we found the most wonderful parquet flooring for almost free).

 

No one's getting paid a pittance by any means, but neither are there any business overheads to cover, so I accept it's not a 'like for like' example.

 

I might be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that the usual narrowboat new build involves a lot of bespoke hardwood cabinetry, and expensive veneered panelling, which is why a lot of the boats at Crick - as beautifully crafted as they were - looked and felt a bit samey to me. If I can find myself a builder who is willing to work slightly differently to this, then I may well pursue the new boat option. Or, we did think about bringing a sailaway down here and managing the fitout in the same way as we are The Monster Boat (she's called Engelina). Or, I will find something second hand that works for me.

 

Plenty of food for thought, that's for sure.

 

 

I'll second that. Trying to carry out work on a narrowboat with even one other tradesman inside the boat with you, let alone two or three, is a hiding to nothing. Even if he isn't in your way, you'll be in his every 45 seconds.

 

I used to refuse to carry out gas installation in the end unless I had the whole boat to myself. (A good way to achieve this is to work in the evening when all the other guys have gone home.)

 

It's far less of a problem when fitting out a 'normal' width boat.

 

MtB

 

I am considering small children as one option for the fitout.

 

I don't have any of my own, but I'm sure I could find some along the towpath...?

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I am considering small children as one option for the fitout.

 

I don't have any of my own, but I'm sure I could find some along the towpath...?

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

My son lives in Cambodia, I'm sure he could find some for you

[YamYam]

We're not doing it in quite the same way as you might a narrowboat, from what I am gathering.

 

We employ a number of the craftsfolk from the marina we live on to come and do the bits they are best at, usually at an hourly rate (sometimes a whole job rate, depending on the type of work and their preference), and are buying all the materials ourselves (so lots of reclaiming - we found the most wonderful parquet flooring for almost free).

 

No one's getting paid a pittance by any means, but neither are there any business overheads to cover, so I accept it's not a 'like for like' example.

 

I might be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that the usual narrowboat new build involves a lot of bespoke hardwood cabinetry, and expensive veneered panelling, which is why a lot of the boats at Crick - as beautifully crafted as they were - looked and felt a bit samey to me. If I can find myself a builder who is willing to work slightly differently to this, then I may well pursue the new boat option. Or, we did think about bringing a sailaway down here and managing the fitout in the same way as we are The Monster Boat (she's called Engelina). Or, I will find something second hand that works for me.

 

Plenty of food for thought, that's for sure.

 

I am considering small children as one option for the fitout.

 

I don't have any of my own, but I'm sure I could find some along the towpath...?

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?

Yes, I use them for the weedhatch but still looking for a really slim one for chimney cleaning

[Marjorie]

 

My son lives in Cambodia, I'm sure he could find some for you

 

These forums are a godsend, really.

[OldGoat]

 

We employ a number of the craftsfolk from the marina we live on to come and do the bits they are best at, usually at an hourly rate (sometimes a whole job rate, depending on the type of work and their preference), and are buying all the materials ourselves (so lots of reclaiming - we found the most wonderful parquet flooring for almost free).

 

Or, we did think about bringing a sailaway down here and managing the fitout in the same way as we are The Monster Boat (she's called Engelina). Or, I will find something second hand that works for me.

 

 

 

I was wondering ...

 

You seem to have a lot of experience fitting out a larger boat (now confirmed fro the above), but I can't get my head around why some (to me) basic things appear confusing to you???

 

As you want things your way then a sailaway would give you the best scope. You'd have to decide on trad / cruiser and where the windows are to go. Everything else is up to you. Even perhaps a sailaway without an engine - you might get a better deal by going direct to the mariniser - the builder should put in engine beds for you.

 

Or buy a used boat with a basic interior and strip it out.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

These forums are a godsend, really.

 

Even the 'full-sized' ones are about the size of "Oompa-Lumpas"

[Marjorie]

 

I was wondering ...

 

You seem to have a lot of experience fitting out a larger boat (now confirmed fro the above), but I can't get my head around why some (to me) basic things appear confusing to you???

 

As you want things your way then a sailaway would give you the best scope. You'd have to decide on trad / cruiser and where the windows are to go. Everything else is up to you. Even perhaps a sailaway without an engine - you might get a better deal by going direct to the mariniser - the builder should put in engine beds for you.

 

Or buy a used boat with a basic interior and strip it out.

 

Do I seem confused? I suppose my general approach to life is not to assume that I already know the best answer, and to make the most of the experience and skills of others to check my understanding, or help develop ideas.

 

I don't have a lot of experience - or it doesn't feel like it. I don't really know what counts as 'a lot' - boats are definitely a steep learning curve! If you'd asked me 6/7 years ago what a stern was I would have looked at you completely blankly... now the idea of building a boat doesn't massively phase me, but I still don't want to be complacent and make mistakes that would be easily avoided if I'd listened to those who might know better.

[RLWP]

What's your narrowboating experience, Marjorie

 

Richard

[Marjorie]

What's your narrowboating experience, Marjorie

 

Richard

 

Very little. A few weeks in total, on hire boats, and a couple of friends with narrowboats that I've been on, but never whilst moving.

[Odana]

Very little. A few weeks in total, on hire boats, and a couple of friends with narrowboats that I've been on, but never whilst moving.

I'm intrigued. What is prompting the move to a narrowboat? Yours sounds perfect as it is. Or did I miss something along the threads about location?

It s possible to get a very individual narrowboat - you don't need to buy new to get one but a refit of something tatty is a good way to start.

[Marjorie]

I'm intrigued. What is prompting the move to a narrowboat? Yours sounds perfect as it is. Or did I miss something along the threads about location?

It s possible to get a very individual narrowboat - you don't need to buy new to get one but a refit of something tatty is a good way to start.

 

That is a very nice way of asking that question - the way I am more used to goes something like this:

 

"Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then? They're not like houses you know." Followed by varying degrees of eye-rolling and/ or scoffing

 

The answer is a bit long and complicated and probably better told over several pints and a packet of pork scratchings.

 

Essentially, it's a bit like this:

 

I believe in small and simple. I don't want lots of things and acres of space - I tried it, and I didn't like it (which may well be the understatement of the decade). The HUGE boat we are fitting out now is my other half's dream, and while the journey to get her finished is remarkable, and I wouldn't swap it, as we get closer to completion I've really had to think about what is important to me and where I am willing to compromise. I won't compromise on his happiness, but I also can't reconcile myself with scaling up so dramatically.

 

So, we had this idea that I could go on my tiny-boat travels (which I've been banging on about for ages as my example of how life would be if people weren't so hungry for stuff and nonsense - the other one is something like this), and he could live on the big 'un like he's been dreaming about for years, and we'll just see how it all ends up working out.

 

(there are so many holes in that potted version, you're all most welcome to roll your eyes and/or scoff, but in real life it's rather more rational and sensible than I've just made it sound, and I'm absolutely not some head-in-the-clouds hippy)

 

And, as for the "Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then?" version: I don't know, I just do. I've made some of the best decisions in my life by trusting my gut, so I'm just going to go with it.

 

Also, now I've found all of you, I'm going to pick you clean of all your knowledge and experience, like the information vulture that I am.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Fair play to you both,

Pick away, I think it's always better to ask, than think you know !.

[Phil Ambrose]

I have an inkling of where you're coming from and as Paul says "pick away" if you are smart enough (and I think you are) you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. I ceased being in acquisition mode about the time we moved aboard, we sold the house and all our possesions and made a vow to live on our boat not partly on the bank or in some storage lock-up. Tried to work on the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid)

I wish you all the luck and look forward to helping out if I can.

Phil

[Odana]

That is a very nice way of asking that question - the way I am more used to goes something like this:

 

"Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then? They're not like houses you know." Followed by varying degrees of eye-rolling and/ or scoffing

 

The answer is a bit long and complicated and probably better told over several pints and a packet of pork scratchings.

 

Essentially, it's a bit like this:

 

I believe in small and simple. I don't want lots of things and acres of space - I tried it, and I didn't like it (which may well be the understatement of the decade). The HUGE boat we are fitting out now is my other half's dream, and while the journey to get her finished is remarkable, and I wouldn't swap it, as we get closer to completion I've really had to think about what is important to me and where I am willing to compromise. I won't compromise on his happiness, but I also can't reconcile myself with scaling up so dramatically.

 

So, we had this idea that I could go on my tiny-boat travels (which I've been banging on about for ages as my example of how life would be if people weren't so hungry for stuff and nonsense - the other one is something like this), and he could live on the big 'un like he's been dreaming about for years, and we'll just see how it all ends up working out.

 

(there are so many holes in that potted version, you're all most welcome to roll your eyes and/or scoff, but in real life it's rather more rational and sensible than I've just made it sound, and I'm absolutely not some head-in-the-clouds hippy)

 

And, as for the "Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then?" version: I don't know, I just do. I've made some of the best decisions in my life by trusting my gut, so I'm just going to go with it.

 

Also, now I've found all of you, I'm going to pick you clean of all your knowledge and experience, like the information vulture that I am.

That makes complete sense. After marrying the boat next door and blending both our middling-sized boats into one big, sensible grownup narrowboat I now also have my own wee micro-boat office which I rebuilt from scrap to be just as I wanted and which provides 'me' space with no compromises.

 

If simple and with minimal consumption of 'stuff' is how you want your boat to be, and you want to see how things go, then repurposing an old one sounds a fine plan (esp if you have a decent budget to play with) rather than waiting about for a new one which may or may not turn out to be exactly what you want.

 

The woodlands house is beeeeauuutiful! But not mobile - always a problem with houses.....

That is a very nice way of asking that question - the way I am more used to goes something like this:

 

"Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then? They're not like houses you know." Followed by varying degrees of eye-rolling and/ or scoffing

 

The answer is a bit long and complicated and probably better told over several pints and a packet of pork scratchings.

 

Essentially, it's a bit like this:

 

I believe in small and simple. I don't want lots of things and acres of space - I tried it, and I didn't like it (which may well be the understatement of the decade). The HUGE boat we are fitting out now is my other half's dream, and while the journey to get her finished is remarkable, and I wouldn't swap it, as we get closer to completion I've really had to think about what is important to me and where I am willing to compromise. I won't compromise on his happiness, but I also can't reconcile myself with scaling up so dramatically.

 

So, we had this idea that I could go on my tiny-boat travels (which I've been banging on about for ages as my example of how life would be if people weren't so hungry for stuff and nonsense - the other one is something like this), and he could live on the big 'un like he's been dreaming about for years, and we'll just see how it all ends up working out.

 

(there are so many holes in that potted version, you're all most welcome to roll your eyes and/or scoff, but in real life it's rather more rational and sensible than I've just made it sound, and I'm absolutely not some head-in-the-clouds hippy)

 

And, as for the "Well, how do you know you want to live on a narrowboat then?" version: I don't know, I just do. I've made some of the best decisions in my life by trusting my gut, so I'm just going to go with it.

 

Also, now I've found all of you, I'm going to pick you clean of all your knowledge and experience, like the information vulture that I am.

That makes complete sense. After marrying the boat next door and blending both our middling-sized boats into one big, sensible grownup narrowboat I now also have my own wee micro-boat office which I rebuilt from scrap to be just as I wanted and which provides 'me' space with no compromises.

 

If simple and with minimal consumption of 'stuff' is how you want your boat to be, and you want to see how things go, then repurposing an old one sounds a fine plan (esp if you have a decent budget to play with) rather than waiting about for a new one which may or may not turn out to be exactly what you want.

 

The woodlands house is beeeeauuutiful! But not mobile - always a problem with houses.....