If I do this, will they laugh me out of the room?

[pete.i]

I was talking generally and the absolute bottom line is that is my money or whoever is buying the boat's money and if the boatbuilder is not willing to take my ideas on board and discuss them with me or the proposed client then my or the proposed client's money should be taken somewhere else and mine most certainly would. I wasn't talking about generall inquiries either as I am pretty sure you knew and I am pretty sure that the OP wasn't talking about general inquiries either. There is competition out there so if you want the work compete.

 

Now I am not going to visit his thread again as it is starting to turn into an argument, (discussion??) and I have an engine to rebuild.

 

Pete

[Ally]

I was talking generally and the absolute bottom line is that is my money or whoever is buying the boat's money and if the boatbuilder is not willing to take my ideas on board and discuss them with me or the proposed client then my or the proposed client's money should be taken somewhere else and mine most certainly would. I wasn't talking about generall inquiries either as I am pretty sure you knew and I am pretty sure that the OP wasn't talking about general inquiries either. There is competition out there so if you want the work compete.

 

Now I am not going to visit his thread again as it is starting to turn into an argument, (discussion??) and I have an engine to rebuild.

 

Pete

I quite agree, I was just saying that an initial email standing alone is not always a serious contact. I'm fully with you about flexibility and time spent discussing detail and needs/wishes, with any potential customer seriously looking to have a build. All companies however need to apply the correct priorities to various levels of enquiry, or employ someone purely for that task.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

A welder in a thong, no.... No.... NOOOO.

I hope it's fully Flame retardant !.

[RLWP]

Now I am not going to visit his thread again as it is starting to turn into an argument, (discussion??) and I have an engine to rebuild.

 

Pete

 

 

I quite agree, I was just saying that an initial email standing alone is not always a serious contact. I'm fully with you about flexibility and time spent discussing detail and needs/wishes, with any potential customer seriously looking to have a build. All companies however need to apply the correct priorities to various levels of enquiry, or employ someone purely for that task.

 

Ally's point is what I was trying to say. Launching an email at a boatbuilder isn't the right way to go about this. It's unlikely to get a useful response, and will probably not get one at all. Emails are cheap to make and send, expensive to reply to properly

 

Richard

[Marjorie]

 

 

Lister:

 

 

 

 

Is he smiling?

[RLWP]

Planning

 

I'm typing with one hand again as Perkin has decided to sleep on me

 

At least he isn't sitting on the Ctrl key at the moment

 

Richard

[Marjorie]

 

 

 

Ally's point is what I was trying to say. Launching an email at a boatbuilder isn't the right way to go about this. It's unlikely to get a useful response, and will probably not get one at all. Emails are cheap to make and send, expensive to reply to properly

 

Richard

 

Yeah, I take the point - that was what I was asking really, whether it's a sensible way to go about things or not.

 

I suppose I was hoping to get some sort of broad ballpark before I start knocking on doors (because if what I am thinking of is going to cost me closer to £150k than £50k, then I'm not even going to bother going down the new build route - my gut tells me I'm looking around the £70 - 80k mark, based on the builder's sites I've looked at, but I have no idea if my gut is speaking sense, or if my spec is over-engineered - I don't think I'm in much danger of under-engineering).

 

Also, narrowing down the gazillion boat builders to decide who to visit feels difficult, and I'm not sure how best to approach it.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Marjorie

[RLWP]

It isn't easy. Shows are one way of doing it, and you've just missed Crick.

 

You could ask for recommendations here and most people will either recommend their boatbuilder, or one of the builders with very full order books

 

Dropping into one of the informal CWDF banters would get you into forum members boats to get an idea of what different builders do

 

Visiting large brokers to look at expensive, used boats would also work

 

On the engineering side, feel free to float your ideas here. You'll get a lot of responses and will probably end up ditching most of your stuff

 

Richard

Edited June 6, 2014 by RLWP

[BruceinSanity]

Yeah, I take the point - that was what I was asking really, whether it's a sensible way to go about things or not.

 

I suppose I was hoping to get some sort of broad ballpark before I start knocking on doors (because if what I am thinking of is going to cost me closer to £150k than £50k, then I'm not even going to bother going down the new build route - my gut tells me I'm looking around the £70 - 80k mark, based on the builder's sites I've looked at, but I have no idea if my gut is speaking sense, or if my spec is over-engineered - I don't think I'm in much danger of under-engineering).

 

Also, narrowing down the gazillion boat builders to decide who to visit feels difficult, and I'm not sure how best to approach it.

Braidbar asks £1550 per foot plus VAT for the standard spec (not that they've ever actually built one; even the hireboat/demonstrator has a few extras) so you are looking at around £108,000 for 58'. I'd argue they are one of the more flexible and genuinely bespoke quality builders, Fernwood being another, so you might well be better to go the secondhand route on your budget.

[RLWP]

so you might well be better to go the secondhand route on your budget.

 

Particularly if you are new to narrowboats. I cannot imagine how I would plan a successful boat layout without having used one first

 

Richard

[BruceinSanity]

Particularly if you are new to narrowboats. I cannot imagine how I would plan a successful boat layout without having used one first

 

Richard

Very true. We'd hired for twenty odd years and shared for six before we specced Sanity, and still changed stuff in the light of experience when doing Sanity Again. Mind you, even six years worth of developments (LED lights, for instance) had a big impact as well.

[Marjorie]

I went to Crick - most of the boats I saw had been fitted out internally to within an inch of their lives with all sorts of bells and whistles that were fun to play with, but I don't really want (it *is* a show, after all - you're going to take your coolest boat to show off, aren't you), and only one builder took my questions about engine size/ electrics/ water set up remotely seriously.

 

Perhaps the thing to do is to just pick a handful of builders (for hulls, I guess I would go with Tyler Wilson; XR&D; Elton Moss; R.W. Davis; Colecraft, and for fit out maybe Straight & Narrow; ABC; Boating Leisure Services (who built the Crick 'best boat' winner this year). Sound about right as a start? I have no idea if these are top/ middle of the range set ups (I don't want a fancy boat, just one that works in a way I can understand and rely on, and that looks like my home as opposed to someone else's).

 

And then I come back to you folk when they all tell me conflicting things?

 

I'm not set on having a boat built by any means, but I don't want to dismiss it out of hand without understanding what I'm dismissing either.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I'm sure that if you are talking of a decent budget of around the £70-£80k mark, there will be lots of boats around the Medway area that could fit the bill,

Have you looked at Medway Bridge Marina,

They always use to have a wide selection of all sorts for sale. I was around that area for a cpl of years myself.

Don't forget there was a few NBs for sale on the For Sale Board on here a while back. Very reasonable, and there was whispering of a cpl of members 'Thinking' of selling a NB or two soon as well. So maybe worth a peek on that board from time to time.

There is also a directory of business to brows through, you might get lucky.

Good luck in your search anyway.

[Marjorie]

Braidbar asks £1550 per foot plus VAT for the standard spec (not that they've ever actually built one; even the hireboat/demonstrator has a few extras) so you are looking at around £108,000 for 58'. I'd argue they are one of the more flexible and genuinely bespoke quality builders, Fernwood being another, so you might well be better to go the secondhand route on your budget.

 

Braidbair are fairly top end, am I right?

 

If you can get a 58' Jonathan Wilson hull for £28k, how can it possibly cost a further £80k to fit it out?

 

Clearly, there is something I am not getting here

[RLWP]

I'm beginning to understand why I wouldn't try to do what you want.

 

I like boating. I like the being out and about of it, the way the boat moves in my hand and under my feet. I want to be on a boat, be boating

 

I don't want to be a boat builder. I don't want to go on that financial and emotional rollercoaster. Above all, I don't want to do the talking to builders, getting onto a waiting list, hanging about for a year or two for my spot, making visits during the build. I don't want to be bothered with that stuff, particularly worrying if I got my modifications right. I want to be out on my boat

 

So, I think I'm not really the person to help you with this part of your journey

 

Richard

[Neil2]

I feel compelled to reinforce all the comments made by Richard (RLWP) on this thread.

 

If you really do want a boat built from scratch, set some time, and money, aside make phone calls and arrange a few appointments with recommended builders. That's the only way they will take you seriously.

 

But, be aware that you may very well find that the builder has ideas of their own, which will be based on sound practical experience of which you have very little, so the discussion will be a little one sided.

 

The sensible alternative is buy a boat, any boat, and sail it for a year or so, then you can go along to your boat builder and tell him all the things that you found wrong/inconvenient/uncomfortable/impractical on the boat you have which will create the right conditions for a proper discussion.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Speaking as someone who has had both Boats as a New Build,, & ones that was Second Hand. In my opinion you get much more for your money, get instant use, & loose less money when you sell, if you go the second hand route.

There are lots of Good boats out there at the moment. Go on,, you know you want to !.

[Paul G2]

You apparently don't have a clear concept on the complexity of designing and costing a construction project.

 

First of all you need a decent set of plans, and that means detailed drawings with exact specifications and a materials take-off. Just the initial plans can cost several thousand pounds and no respectable boat builder is going to do thousands of pounds worth of work for free.

 

There just happens to be a well respected bespoke boat builder who is a member of this forum who just closed her shop and is looking for a job right now. You might be able to tempt her to be your "designer/consultant" for a reasonable wage. If she were willing to do the job, she could not only help you get exactly what you want/need, and eliminate what don't want/need, she could also help you choose a builder and make sure that your contract with the builder was solid and spec'd out to the point that you wouldn't be facing a whole lot of very costly changes as construction progressed. Add-ons and changes can significantly impact the cost of a new build and using a knowledgeable designer/consultant would, in the long run, not only result in a boat that would be more to your liking, but it would save you money as well.

[RLWP]

There just happens to be a well respected bespoke boat builder who is a member of this forum who just closed her shop and is looking for a job right now. You might be able to tempt her to be your "designer/consultant" for a reasonable wage. If she were willing to do the job, she could not only help you get exactly what you want/need, and eliminate what don't want/need, she could also help you choose a builder and make sure that your contract with the builder was solid and spec'd out to the point that you wouldn't be facing a whole lot of very costly changes as construction progressed. Add-ons and changes can significantly impact the cost of a new build and using a knowledgeable designer/consultant would, in the long run, not only result in a boat that would be more to your liking, but it would save you money as well.

 

Bloody hell, that's clever!

 

Richard

[BruceinSanity]

Braidbair are fairly top end, am I right?

 

If you can get a 58' Jonathan Wilson hull for £28k, how can it possibly cost a further £80k to fit it out?

 

Clearly, there is something I am not getting here

Apart from little matters like the engine and the frightening prices you have to pay for solid oak and ash and quality veneered ply, it's four months work (admittedly whilst building one or two other boats as well) for a team of six craftsmen, three of whom at least are some of the best in the business and have about 100 years experience between them.

 

I'm not knocking the work done by other builders, least of all the sadly now lost to us Beacon and Crown boats whose proprietors contribute here, but reputation and the longevity of experienced craftsmanship comes at a price.

 

I won't say anymore or I'll get told off for advertising, though the above applies equally to the other top end established builders.

[Alan de Enfield]

Here is a link to a builder near to us - I have not visited them, I have never seen one of their boats and it is not a recommendation.

 

Just an idea of boat prices at different stages of build, and size.

 

They may be a 'skoda' builder or a Rolls-Royce' builder I do not know.

 

http://www.sherwoodboats.co.uk/prices.php

 

Basic fitted out boat FROM £1100 per foot

[Ally]

You apparently don't have a clear concept on the complexity of designing and costing a construction project.

 

First of all you need a decent set of plans, and that means detailed drawings with exact specifications and a materials take-off. Just the initial plans can cost several thousand pounds and no respectable boat builder is going to do thousands of pounds worth of work for free.

 

There just happens to be a well respected bespoke boat builder who is a member of this forum who just closed her shop and is looking for a job right now. You might be able to tempt her to be your "designer/consultant" for a reasonable wage. If she were willing to do the job, she could not only help you get exactly what you want/need, and eliminate what don't want/need, she could also help you choose a builder and make sure that your contract with the builder was solid and spec'd out to the point that you wouldn't be facing a whole lot of very costly changes as construction progressed. Add-ons and changes can significantly impact the cost of a new build and using a knowledgeable designer/consultant would, in the long run, not only result in a boat that would be more to your liking, but it would save you money as well.

OK, I'm suitably blushing!

 

Maybe that's a thought for my future career!? I hadn't really thought about that, just generally tend to help people out if they need it. You have a point though.

[MtB]

OK, I'm suitably blushing!

 

Maybe that's a thought for my future career!? I hadn't really thought about that, just generally tend to help people out if they need it. You have a point though.

 

I was thinking exactly the same.

 

Sounds to me like your new career has been decided for you!

 

 

MtB

[Arthur Brown]

The issue with a standard boat is that everyone has one, but it's very saleable when you chose to sell. An "own design" needs a LOT of thought and precision drawing, suits your dream but maybe not the reality, and is slower to sell because it's so unique!

 

It really is your choice (it's your money!) but a look at a hundred regular boats on the duck and other sales sites, and a look at some in real life will show you lots of style points and you can then chose what is essential, wanted and if possible for your boat.

 

"Name" builders may not want to do something too off the wall because they will use the "boat in progress" as a sales pitch for their then enquiries.

[Odana]

Ally, I think you'd be excellent in the role of designer-advisor and possibly during-build inspector (do you have to be a boat surveyor? If so could you get that qual?)

There is a gap in the market for an advisory service that is knowledgeable but neutral to help would-be buyers decide. Good for people in the initial-interim planning stages like Marjorie, and good for the builders people end up with as they don't then have to unravel impractical ideas but can get on with fine-tuning the details according to their own house style and expertise. Certainly if I was in the market for a new boat now I'd be trying to offer you money for this kind of service to help me navigate the many choices to make about builder and build. It's lovely you do it for free, but you could definitely make at least a part time business out of it!

 

Beacon Boatbuilding Advisory Services Ltd.

Go for it!

 

Afterthought edit - as you are not competition, many boatbuilders might be happy to refer customer enquiries to you to help people refine plans. It would save them time and money. You could develop a list of top/middle range partners to work with. Worth approaching a few builders to see if they would be interested in this kind of service. Either for referring customers for independent advice, or for paying you themselves to work up details with those already committed.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Odana