Tuning a satellite system

[junior]

I've bought a second hand satellite system off one of the guys at work. I've been playing around with it all week and so far haven't got it to work. Initially I put this down to the area i was in and not having line of sight with satellites. I'm now moored at Cosgrove where there is nothing blocking the dish and I still can't get it to work.

 

So am I doing something wrong? I am a bit stupid/slow when it comes to figuring things out for myself, and the manual may as well be in a foreign language.

 

I don't have a sat finder but I am pointing the dish roughly South East and up in the air a bit. This seems to fit in with what the boat over the cut from me is doing. I am doing an 'auto-search' using satellite 'Astra 28.2E'. The TV tells me I have Signal intensity 36% and Signal Quality 10% (although this sometimes fluctuates between 9% & 11%). Even if I turn the dish to the South or to the East these figures do not change.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? I've now missed 3 episodes of Eastenders so it's getting urgent.

[Keeping Up]

The chances of finding the satellite without a finder are pretty low. The alignment gas to be very accurate (up/down as well as left-right)

[Ex- Member]

They're difficult to line up without some assistance.

 

Our dish is on a suction pad, when adhered to the centre of the roof the elevation which I recall is 28 degrees will be automatically set when the dish is set in that position. I then just need to find the direction which as you say is ball park South East, with the elevation set this is quite easy to locate. So if you're trying to line up without elevation set then it's going to be very hit and miss. You're close though at 30% we need 50% plus for a decent enough picture.

 

We do have a tuner you can connect with a row of lights and some noise, but we find it quicker and easier the way mentioned above.

 

There are some phone aps apparently as well and a website somewhere that helps I recall.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Julynian

[b0atman]

East enders may be you should contact the Samaritans for help

first set the dish angle then you turn the scanner thing sorry not got degrees to hand but that is what I did its fastened to a pole in a holder so once dish has correct alignment I get in line of sight of tv with signal strength info on then I slowly rotate pole until I get a picture then fine tune it for best signal strength check all channels for reception any not there then with line of site of tv make very fine movements of pole best of luck

[nicknorman]

Firstly which type of dish do you have, one with the receiving bit in the centre of the dish, or one with an arm protruding and holding the receiving bit below the centre of the dish? If the former, it needs to point up at around 25 deg (depending on your location). If the latter, the dish should be pretty much vertical. For azimuth, it needs to point to around 145 -150 degrees magnetic (again depending on where you are).

 

Personally I never use a sat finder, there is no point because they find any old satellite, not just the one you want. I am, by the way, presuming you want Astra 2 for Freesat? But the trick is to approach it from too far to the East since the Astra 2 is the first satellite you come to (ie rotate the dish slowly clockwise viewed from above).

 

The sat box signal strength and quality may well show high values when the dish is pointing at the wrong satellite, and or a "scrambled" type message may appear. With our Humax HD box I do find I sometimes get the "scrambled" message even when I point it to the correct satellite. The trick is to change the channel and back again, the all is fine. I would say it typically takes me about 30 seconds to get the max signal. Sometimes I just plonk the dish on the roof (magmount base) having looked at Nicholsons and/ or google maps and it works straight away. But the first time I tried to do it, I do recall it taking at least 30 minutes! In other words, it's easy once you know how!

[wullie]

Eastenders i would rather read the currant bun, and i never read newspapers.

[OldGoat]

The axis of the dish mount must be absolutely VERTICAL in all directions. IME if that's not correct you may/will get false results. If it is vertical then there are two satellites that a finder or the STB will find. The "wrong one " is 10 to 15 degrees further east and louder (dunno what happens if you use the STB indicator).

 

NickNorman is perhaps a bit disingenuous is saying that they pick up any old satellite (I took that to mean that they couldn't distinguish one from another). As there are only two that we're interested in in the full 360 degree sweep, that's no disadvantage...

 

I had terrible trouble in getting a signal until I realised that pole mount wasn't quite vertical.

 

Remember you're looking for a tiny dot in the sky n thousand miles away, so everything has to be very precise.

 

 

[Grace and Favour]

Junior - -

 

I use a great little on-line system (Dishfinder)

 

Put your approx location in the address box, it'll bring up a map of your location.

 

Pull the location arrow to exactly where your boat is moored. Select which satellite you're after and it will give you an exact line of reference.

 

Never fails for me

[Androo]

This is a good site to help you.

 

 

http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/

 

I set up my 1mtr dish in Spain without much problem. I found that, if you can put the TV in view of the dish whilst you are adjusting it helps a lot and, you can see when it locks onto the Astra Sat.

 

I always found that more useful than a sat finder....

[Rob-M]

I cheated and bought a dish that has a built in device called an easy finder, even with that it took a bit of practice to find the satellite. It all comes down to having the LMB correctly positioned as well as the dish pointing in the correct direction.

[nicknorman]

The axis of the dish mount must be absolutely VERTICAL in all directions.

 

No, only approximately vertical if it is the type with an offset LNB (on an arm). And not EXACTLY vertical necessarily, the elevation varies with location from around 20 to 26 degrees within the bounds of the UK. As I said, if it is the type with the LNB in the centre it must be aimed up at this angle.

 

NickNorman is perhaps a bit disingenuous is saying that they pick up any old satellite (I took that to mean that they couldn't distinguish one from another). As there are only two that we're interested in in the full 360 degree sweep, that's no disadvantage...

 

Well they pick up any broadcast satellite of which there are several, some at different elevations. But one is helped by the fact that it is the east-most satellite. Put it this way, I have a sat finder, I used it once and it took me 30 mins to get a picture. Now I never use it and it takes zero to 30 seconds to get a picture.

[NB Lola]

This is a good site to help you.

 

 

http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/

 

I set up my 1mtr dish in Spain without much problem. I found that, if you can put the TV in view of the dish whilst you are adjusting it helps a lot and, you can see when it locks onto the Astra Sat.

 

I always found that more useful than a sat finder....

Not that easy in Spain now since the Astra sat was replaced and the coverage narrowed, you have to use iptv now

[LEO]

The axis of the dish mount must be absolutely VERTICAL in all directions. IME if that's not correct you may/will get false results. If it is vertical then there are two satellites that a finder or the STB will find. The "wrong one " is 10 to 15 degrees further east and louder (dunno what happens if you use the STB indicator).

 

NickNorman is perhaps a bit disingenuous is saying that they pick up any old satellite (I took that to mean that they couldn't distinguish one from another). As there are only two that we're interested in in the full 360 degree sweep, that's no disadvantage...

 

I had terrible trouble in getting a signal until I realised that pole mount wasn't quite vertical.

 

Remember you're looking for a tiny dot in the sky n thousand miles away, so everything has to be very precise.

 

 

 

Hi J,

 

I had problems setting up a small suitcase type dish when I first got one (S/H) a few years ago.

 

OGoat gave me some useful advice - and it is important to get the dish vertical and a compass can be useful in obtaining a rough idea of direction, but use it well away from the boat's steelwork.

 

One of the sites given for finding the direction is very useful, once you have cracked it and found the satellites, it become easy second time around..... have fun.

 

The receivers stand up to a fair amount of boat movement before losing the signal and the suckers have problems maintaining adhesion during windy condition and can mark paint work.

 

Best of luck, get it upright!

 

L

[mayalld]

The chances of finding the satellite without a finder are pretty low. The alignment gas to be very accurate (up/down as well as left-right)

 

My experience is that it is very easy without a finder.

 

As others have said, assuming an offset dish with a bottom arm, the dish should be vertical, with the arm horizontal.

 

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned previously is getting the skew of the LNB right. This makes a HUGE difference.

 

looking at the dish face on, the LNB should NOT be perfectly vertical, with the cable coming out of the bottom. If you rotate the LNB, so that the cable exits at the "7 O'Clock" position, you will get a massively better signal.

 

Aligning a dish is, to an extent, tricky, because there are 3 variables to be aligned (Azimuth, Direction and Skew). It becomes very easy once you reduce that to only on variable by fixing the other two. Having got the Skew and Azimuth right once, they can remain fixed (unless you travel a long way), and it just becomes a case of put the dish on the roof, pointing SE, and move left and right until it gets a lock.

[nicknorman]

My experience is that it is very easy without a finder.

 

As others have said, assuming an offset dish with a bottom arm, the dish should be vertical, with the arm horizontal.

 

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned previously is getting the skew of the LNB right. This makes a HUGE difference.

 

looking at the dish face on, the LNB should NOT be perfectly vertical, with the cable coming out of the bottom. If you rotate the LNB, so that the cable exits at the "7 O'Clock" position, you will get a massively better signal.

 

Aligning a dish is, to an extent, tricky, because there are 3 variables to be aligned (Azimuth, Direction and Skew). It becomes very easy once you reduce that to only on variable by fixing the other two. Having got the Skew and Azimuth right once, they can remain fixed (unless you travel a long way), and it just becomes a case of put the dish on the roof, pointing SE, and move left and right until it gets a lock.

I wasn't going to mention skew because I presumed it had already been set up, but that might be an unwarranted assumption! This site has useful info on all 3 parameters. http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/bearings.htm

 

Ps azimuth and direction are the same thing. You can have azimuth and elevation (technical), or (non-technical) direction and angle of dangle!

Edited March 18, 2014 by nicknorman

[Keeping Up]

 

... a compass can be useful in obtaining a rough idea of direction, but use it well away from the boat's steelwork.

 

 

It's one of the main reasons that I devised the satellite sundial. The compass may do little more than help you point the dish at the hull of the boat! Even the compasses used by the satellite-finder apps in smart phones and tablets will be affected by the steelwork of the boat.

 

 

 

My experience is that it is very easy without a finder.

 

.

 

Maybe I should have said "The chances of finding the satellite without a finder are pretty low until you have had plenty of practice". It may be easy if you are experienced and have had plenty of practice with a particular dish/LNB but everyone finds it difficult at first

[OldGoat]

 

It's one of the main reasons that I devised the satellite sundial. The compass may do little more than help you point the dish at the hull of the boat! Even the compasses used by the satellite-finder apps in smart phones and tablets will be affected by the steelwork of the boat.

 

 

 

Maybe I should have said "The chances of finding the satellite without a finder are pretty low until you have had plenty of practice". It may be easy if you are experienced and have had plenty of practice with a particular dish/LNB but everyone finds it difficult at first

 

 

I agree with that - have a coloured box - in our peregrinations around or nearest cruising area I can (nearly always) position the dish first time, but I always confirm (or tweak) the position using a satfinder which I've mounted permanently inside the front door. That reduces the risk of losing a signal when the late night trip boats come thundering past.

 

The only type of finder that works at all for me is one of this type:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omnisat-sat-finder-/200876753677?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item2ec530030d

 

though at £23 it's not terribly attractive.

 

I suspect one of these might do:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Satfinder-Digital-LCD-Display-Dish-Sat-Meter-Satellite-Signal-Finder-/360883475935?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Signal_Finders&hash=item540654d5df

 

OTOH this type is best avoided:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pocket-Satellite-Signal-Finder-Meter-Digital-Satfinder-For-Sat-Dish-LNB-DIRECTV-/360683946481?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Signal_Finders&hash=item53fa7041f1

 

for the simple reasons that you have to keep adjusting the sensitivity in order to 'peak' the meter pointer.

 

The other two have buzzers that scream in increasing pitch and volume which you can hear at a distance.

[nicknorman]

Surely sat boxes themselves have built-in signal strength and quality meters, if you know which buttons to press? I use this to optimise the alignment (normally get 100% signal strength and quality) to maximise the amount of boat tilt and general bobbing around that can be tolerated without the picture breaking up.

[Bullfrog]

Make sure the leads and sockets are in good order.

 

Having one whisker of the wire in the wrong place can lose you all your signal.

 

I replaced mine with soldered joints on the plugs instead of the horrible screw together jobs they come with and problems went away

[cereal tiller]

Surely sat boxes themselves have built-in signal strength and quality meters, if you know which buttons to press? I use this to optimise the alignment (normally get 100% signal strength and quality) to maximise the amount of boat tilt and general bobbing around that can be tolerated without the picture breaking up.

Correct,i have a Silvercrest satellite box,sometimes sold under the brand name of Comag.

 

To align the dish simply select any known channel,press INFO button ,the strength and quality of the signal is displayed on the TV screen.

Then press the 1 button on the remote control,a low note will be emitted by the TV.

Pivot and tilt the dish until the low note becomes progressively higher,finally resulting in a high pitched whistle,

 

once a satisfactory signal strength is achieved,a Tv picture should appear behind the strength/quality panel on the TV screen

press exit button

 

Watch TV

CT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Press exit on the remote

Edited March 18, 2014 by cereal tiller

[OldGoat]

Correct,i have a Silvercrest satellite box,sometimes sold under the brand name of Comag.

 

To align the dish simply select any known channel,press INFO button ,the strength and quality of the signal is displayed on the TV screen.

Then press the 1 button on the remote control,a low note will be emitted by the TV.

Pivot and tilt the dish until the low note becomes progressively higher,finally resulting in a high pitched whistle,

 

once a satisfactory signal strength is achieved,a Tv picture should appear behind the strength/quality panel on the TV screen

press exit button

 

Watch TV

CT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Press exit on the remote

 

 

That's neat - I (almost) wish my Humax box did that - but as it's in the central cabin, I'd never hear or see it.

 

A good feature that you wouldn't expect from a Comag box...

[nicknorman]

That's neat - I (almost) wish my Humax box did that - but as it's in the central cabin, I'd never hear or see it.

 

A good feature that you wouldn't expect from a Comag box...

The Humax box does have the signal strength meter but not the audio. But I think I have determined why you favour sat finders and I don't - I can see the tv screen whilst I am adjusting the dish. If you can't, you definitely need a sat finder.

[junior]

Ok more confused now than before I posted! I downloaded a sat finder app for my phone and don't understand that either. My plan of action is next time I'm chatting to a neighbouring boater who has a dish on the roof, I'll ask if they can set mine up in exchange for a bottle of vino!

[nicknorman]

Ok more confused now than before I posted! I downloaded a sat finder app for my phone and don't understand that either. My plan of action is next time I'm chatting to a neighbouring boater who has a dish on the roof, I'll ask if they can set mine up in exchange for a bottle of vino!

Sat finder apps use the built in compass of the phone, so you have to stand well away from the steel boat. I find them useful for working out whether the satellite is visible above trees and buildings, but not much use for actually aiming the dish. You need to select the Astra 2 satellite for Freesat.

 

Your suggestion of getting some help is a good one, and I'm sure that once you have seen it done, you will find it easy next time.

Edited March 18, 2014 by nicknorman

[junior]

 

Your suggestion of getting some help is a good one, and I'm sure that once you have seen it done, you will find it easy next time.

That's the best way for me to learn things. I can read all the books and instructions in the world, but I can't compute it. Show me how to do something once and i'll remember it forever!