12V Leisure Batteries

[Jambo]

Hi everyone

 

Out batteries are borked and need replacing. I'd considered going for 6V Trojans or US Batteries but due to money being a little tight I think I'm going to go for 12V leisures instead. We'll see how last they long and then next replacement cycle we can look at 6V again.

 

So are they all much of a muchness or are some brands considered to be better than others?

 

Any recommendations gratefully received!

 

ETA: I'm not after sealed / gel / maintenance free. I want to be able to equalise, top up water, check the specific gravity etc

Edited March 9, 2014 by Jambo

[Arthur Brown]

A good part of how long a battery will last is governed by how well you keep them. There is increasing suggestion that solar charging will increase the life of new batteries as the batteries get fully charged whenever the sun shines.

 

There are a few differences in batteries -mostly proportional to what you pay! BUT a new set of batteries at any level will repay good care by longer life.

[Jambo]

Fully agree. We have 1kW of solar so they should do well over the summer. I hope to be close to self sufficient for electricity from about now through to October but only with a healthy set of batteries (ours are decidedly sickly).

[ditchcrawler]

Fully agree. We have 1kW of solar so they should do well over the summer. I hope to be close to self sufficient for electricity from about now through to October but only with a healthy set of batteries (ours are decidedly sickly).

If you don't get the sun, don't be afraid to charge them by other means.

[OldGoat]

If the OP is averse to deep discharge type of battery, then to my mind the only way to counter that is NOT to discharge the replacement set to a similar extent.

 

The solution to that is to increase the total battery capacity of the leisure set by "one unit".

 

Most of the issues raised on here is that the battery bank is just too small for their projected lifestyle. Those folks who say 'leisure batteries are OK' do so mainly because the above conditions are met.

 

 

 

[b0atman]

Tis a pity NiCad and Alcad simple terms alkaline batteries are so expensive where I worked we had sets working brilliantly after 30 + years of service.

[bottle]

Jambo

 

you asked for make so here goes, we had Numax 110 amp.hr, they were sealed and they lasted 2½ years on an 'all electric' live aboard, CCing running fridge, freezer, TV etc.

 

They were religiously never left to go lower tha 50% SOC and always re-charged to at least 95% SOC and sometimes more.

 

As Old Goat says, the bigger the bank (amp.hrs) the better, within reason.

 

A bank that is only ever taken down to 75% SOC will last longer (life) than one taken down to 50% SOC on a regular basis.

 

BUT it is also the recharging that is important.

 

So maybe a 'power audit' and a suitable size bank would help them last even longer.

 

Now running AGM's same size bank but true deep cycle, obviously more expensive but they seem to be able to cope better, same usage but less discharge???.

[David Schweizer]

Well you asked, and immediately rejected the only two alternatives I would recommend. Yes Trojan and US Batteries are expensiven, but properly looked after, will last up to three times longer than Bog Standard leisure batteries.

 

In case you change your mind, the cheapest source I have found are these people:-

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/

 

These are the batteries we have, so far they have beeinstalled nine years and still hold a full charge :-

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/US-125-Deep-Cycle-Monobloc-Battery-P4121.html

Edited March 9, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Jambo]

I'm not averse to them, just now isn't the right time financially.

 

We won't be letting them discharge far and will of course make use of the generator if required but I reckon we should do pretty well out of our panels for a good 6 or 7 months of the year. Plus we're set up to be pretty efficient.

These are the batteries we have, so far they have beeinstalled nine years and still hold a full charge

 

Impressive! Food for thought certainly.

[David Schweizer]

I'm not averse to them, just now isn't the right time financially.

 

We won't be letting them discharge far and will of course make use of the generator if required but I reckon we should do pretty well out of our panels for a good 6 or 7 months of the year. Plus we're set up to be pretty efficient.

 

Impressive! Food for thought certainly.

 

The previous set were changed after thirteen years, but only because they were beginning to loose their charge when the boat was left unattended for a month at a time.They were transferred to a residential boat where they could be charged more frequently, and went on to give several more years service.

[jckm2000]

Bimble inn are doing some part used 154ah 6v batts at the moment for £65 each. http://www.bimblesolar.com/powersafe6V155

Edited March 9, 2014 by jckm2000

[David Schweizer]

Bimble inn are doing some part used 154ah 6v batts at the moment for £65 each. http://www.bimblesolar.com/powersafe6V155

Iniitially they look like a good deal, but they do not have a very high Ah rating, so you would need more to make up a decent sized bank. Consequently the cost saving would not be that great, particularly if you take into account a shorter lifespspan for second hand units,

[Jambo]

Jambo

 

you asked for make so here goes, we had Numax 110 amp.hr, they were sealed and they lasted 2½ years on an 'all electric' live aboard, CCing running fridge, freezer, TV etc.

 

They were religiously never left to go lower tha 50% SOC and always re-charged to at least 95% SOC and sometimes more.

 

As Old Goat says, the bigger the bank (amp.hrs) the better, within reason.

 

A bank that is only ever taken down to 75% SOC will last longer (life) than one taken down to 50% SOC on a regular basis.

 

BUT it is also the recharging that is important.

 

So maybe a 'power audit' and a suitable size bank would help them last even longer.

 

Now running AGM's same size bank but true deep cycle, obviously more expensive but they seem to be able to cope better, same usage but less discharge???.

 

Cheers for this Bottle.

 

Erring on the generous side I've worked out:

 

- Our LED lights are probably consuming about 15Ah/day

- Our very efficient 230V fridge is also about 15Ah/day

- Our TV is about 10Ah/day

- As I work from boat my laptop is probably the biggest consumer at about 20 to 30Ah/day (i haven't put a power meter on it yet so I'm not sure exactly how much)

- The washing machine would only be used if the generator was on

 

So that's about 55Ah for the 230V stuff, say another 15Ah for the inverter losses plus 15Ah for lighting and a similar amount for other bits and bobs (pumps etc) and we're not a million miles from a generous budget of 100Ah per day (but we should be a fair bit under that I think). I would say I probably want at least 400Ah of batteries in that case.

 

Four of the US 125s linked to above would give me 484Ah at 12V and would cost £564 delivered

Four Numax CXV35MFs (for example) would give me 480Ah at 12V and would cost £482 delivered

 

So there's not a great deal in it and I would expect the US 125s to last me a lot longer. Very interesting....

Edited March 10, 2014 by Jambo

[ralphclaydon]

Have you tried www.eurobatt.co.uk They are selling 4 off Trojan T 105'S for £426, that includes delivery.

Not alot of difference to the Leisure batteries!

[Grace and Favour]

Have you tried www.eurobatt.co.uk They are selling 4 off Trojan T 105'S for £426, that includes delivery.

Not alot of difference to the Leisure batteries

It's certainly worth shopping around

[ditchcrawler]

 

Cheers for this Bottle.

 

Erring on the generous side I've worked out:

 

- Our LED lights are probably consuming about 15Ah/day

- Our very efficient 230V fridge is also about 15Ah/day

- Our TV is about 10Ah/day

- As I work from boat my laptop is probably the biggest consumer at about 20 to 30Ah/day (i haven't put a power meter on it yet so I'm not sure exactly how much)

- The washing machine would only be used if the generator was on

 

So that's about 55Ah for the 230V stuff, say another 15Ah for the inverter losses plus 15Ah for lighting and a similar amount for other bits and bobs (pumps etc) and we're not a million miles from a generous budget of 100Ah per day (but we should be a fair bit under that I think). I would say I probably want at least 400Ah of batteries in that case.

 

Four of the US 125s linked to above would give me 484Ah at 12V and would cost £564 delivered

Four Numax CXV35MFs (for example) would give me 480Ah at 12V and would cost £482 delivered

 

So there's not a great deal in it and I would expect the US 125s to last me a lot longer. Very interesting....

What fridge are you using to get that sort of return, The door seal is on the way out on ours so am looking at buying a new one.

[ralphclaydon]

Have you tried These people?

 

The Battery Guys in Bristol? Just had this quote

 

T105 monobloc units @ £ 99.70 each + £ 40.00 delivery.

[Jambo]

What fridge are you using to get that sort of return, The door seal is on the way out on ours so am looking at buying a new one.

 

It's the Liebherr TP 1760. Expensive as 230V fridges go but it's A+++ rated and uses just 64kWh per year.

Have you tried www.eurobatt.co.uk They are selling 4 off Trojan T 105'S for £426, that includes delivery.

Not alot of difference to the Leisure batteries!

 

Indeed! For some reason I had in mind that going 6V would be much more expensive but this plainly isn't the case. I think I'm sold on the idea of going for 6V batts now.

 

Cheers for all the tips people!

[Grace and Favour]

Have you tried These people?

 

The Battery Guys in Bristol? Just had this quote

 

T105 monobloc units @ £ 99.70 each + £ 40.00 delivery.

Battery Megastore £430 delivered for four T105's

[Richard10002]

It's the Liebherr TP 1760. Expensive as 230V fridges go but it's A+++ rated and uses just 64kWh per year.

!

My inverter uses about 4Ah when on 24/7, and 1-2Ah when on low usage, (it kicks in on demand), so a 240V fridge that uses even no power would cost me about 100Ah a day!!

 

It's a Sterling Pro Combi - other inverters may be more efficient

Battery Megastore £430 delivered for four T105's

£427.50 delivered if you buy 4, according to their eBay auctions, (buy it now).

[smileypete]

With the Trojan/US Battery 6v's, gotta understand what equalisation (and their correct charge voltage) is all about, to get the best from them.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Jambo]

My inverter uses about 4Ah when on 24/7, and 1-2Ah when on low usage, (it kicks in on demand), so a 240V fridge that uses even no power would cost me about 100Ah a day!!

 

It's a Sterling Pro Combi - other inverters may be more efficient

 

I've got a Mastervolt Mass Combi which claims:

 

DC consumption at 230 V < 9 W

Search mode consumption 0.5 W

 

So it looks like it should draw about 18Ah per day.

With the Trojan/US Battery 6v's, gotta understand what equalisation (and their correct charge voltage) is all about, to get the best from them.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Yes this will be a good idea. Any tips on how frequently we should equalise?

 

Also I'm going to need a few more battery cables. Not sure it's worth buying a crimper though. A while back I came across a shop which sold crimped, lugged battery cables of varying thicknesses and lengths. I can't find it now. Where is good for this?

[Keeping Up]

My inverter uses about 4Ah when on 24/7, and 1-2Ah when on low usage, (it kicks in on demand), so a 240V fridge that uses even no power would cost me about 100Ah a day!!

 

It's a Sterling Pro Combi - other inverters may be more efficient

 

 

Are you sure of your figures? Your use of Ah for Amp-hours seems rather muddled.

 

The Pro-Combi data sheet says it uses 1.8 amps in normal mode or 0.4 amps in power saver mode. In a 24-hour day that would be 43 Ah in normal mode or 9.6 Ah in power saver mode

[junior]

Just seen an advert in Towpath Talk for 3x Numax 110ah batts for £200 delivered with a 3 year guarantee. Surely for a consumable item that has got to be worth a punt? Even if you bin them after 3 years and get 3 more you are still paying less than you would for those posh 6v batteries.

[dmr]

Just seen an advert in Towpath Talk for 3x Numax 110ah batts for £200 delivered with a 3 year guarantee. Surely for a consumable item that has got to be worth a punt? Even if you bin them after 3 years and get 3 more you are still paying less than you would for those posh 6v batteries.

 

Do note that Battery guarantees are against "faulty parts and workmanship" NOT against dying of natural causes. A standard battery is good for just over 300 cycles (if discharged down to 50%) so some liveaboards will do this in a year. A guarantee is just a bit of paper, it can't increase the life of a battery!

In some cases you can persuade/browbeat the supplier into replacing worn out batteries under guarantee but don't rely on this.

Quite a few 3 year guarantees have small print that says "only one year in marine applications".

 

Posh "Trojans" appear to last at least three times as long as "ordinary" batteries. I will tell you exactly how much longer when mine finally give up!

 

............Dave