Battening out

[Alastair]

Just to Ditto Dave here. The 'Tek' screws have been used in Australia for years. I first came across them 20 years ago. We used them to fix hardwood 4"x6" planks on stable sides. Without the tek screws, we had to drill, then drive or nail. 2 people took a day to do one stable. With tek screws, one person could do a stable a day.

 

We also used them roofing corrugated iron. Drill and screw in one action straight through the sheeting and into the iron I beam below. Very fast, and more secure, they held the sheet in hurricanes when previously we used to lose sheets every year in the windy season.

[stuart]

As an update, the boat has arrived and the battening should be fairly straight forward.

 

There are no steel supports long the cabin sides but there are on the roof. There is also a lip around the gunwhale of about 15mm so it will be easy to wedge and screw wooden battens into/onto this.

 

Stu.

[stuart]

I've been trying to find a simple way to attach battens to the hull without "stealing" space from the cabin.

 

I could just attach half inch wooden rails to the top of the 2" angle on the hull but then I loose an inch of cabin width and the angle does not run to the top of the hull sides so I have to bridge the gap to the hull top.

 

If I attached wooden rails between each angle (behind the front face of the angle) and then attached the ply to this would that cause a problem with a wooden and metal face both touching the ply? I'm thinking of cold gaps or condensation forming on the steel parts and not on the wooden parts?

 

 

Bigger picture here

[Richard Bustens]

How are the ones fitted that are there already to the cabin. on the hull i think you best to run 3 lengths of 4 x 1 from frount to back 2'' is not going to make any diferance and i dont think there is a lot of holding power in 1/2 thick timber.

Edited January 31, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[John Orentas]

Stuart.

 

Unlike Richard I fixed vertical battens to the 2 x 2" knees, 1/2 inch thickness is ok but make them 3" or so wide so that you can screw into them without hitting the metal if the screws are a bit long, I imagine you will be fitting plywood to the hull sides. The battens must keep the ply from touching the steel, as you say you must avoid 'cold spots'.

 

The cabin sides, you should not have less than 3/4" thickness of insulation but this is the area where you want to lose a minimum of width. I take it you have noggins on the deck head, in which case I would certainly recommend that you make up laminated curved 'beams' as mentioned on an earlier thread, you can then fasten a few vertical battens on those.

 

I'm not keen on your idea of gluing them up there, remember the roof gets hot, people walk on it and it has to defy gravity for a few decades, you don't need as many cabin side battens as you may think, 9mm ply is happy to span 3ft, you can normally utilise window fastenings so that does not leave many required.

 

You don't need to bridge cabin to hull sides with battens, distances are small and it is handy to make removable panels to cover the transittion, you can use it for pipe or cable runs. I found a good method for doing this but it is hard to describe without sketches. If you are interested I will have a go.

[stuart]

How are the ones fitted that are there already to the cabin. on the hull i think you best to run 3 lengths of 4 x 1 from frount to back 2'' is not going to make any diferance and i dont think there is a lot of holding power in 1/2 thick timber.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The battens already there are all screwed into through the window fixings.

 

I'm okay with the cabin top as its easy to wedge a 1" x2" batten against the roof square section and the lip at the top of the gunwhale. A bit of glue and a couple of screws will hold firm.

 

The roof has plenty of 1" square section to attach to. I'm planning to have a centre channel along the roof so cables and lights can go in that and this also gives me plenty of ways to attach battens and ply to the roof. Glue will be used but there will be plenty of screws as well!

 

I think I will use vertical battens on the hull sides attached to the 2" angle as theres a good 8" gap between the top of the 2" angle and the gunwhale so a horizontal batten at the top might be troublesome.

 

Plenty of waxoyl on the internal shell once the battens are fixed and glued on. For insulation, polyurethane 8x4ft sheets, 1" thick on top and 1.5" thick on bottom.

 

I'm asking a lot of questions lately and I'm sure it will be quite simple once I start doing the work (roll on Wednesday!) eager to get started now.

[james46]

Hi all i was going to fit my ply boards straight to the steel cross members on the base of my narrow boat is there a need for battens on the floor ?

[Lily Rose]

Blimey, "18 years later". Is that a record?

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, james46 said:

Hi all i was going to fit my ply boards straight to the steel cross members on the base of my narrow boat is there a need for battens on the floor ?

 

Depends on the height of the cross members and how much ballast you need to accommodate.

[BEngo]

The fasteners will make hundreds of cold bridges which will show up in winter as condensation spots on the floor.

 

Fastening direct to the cross bearers will also divide the bilge into several practically closed cells.  If proper provision has not been made for water to flow to the back these will fill up and rot the flooring.  Water can get in from leaks round fenestration,  a tank leak, a pipework leak or the pump leaking.  None of these are rare events.

Finally, you will have reduced the space available for ballast.

 

N

Edited August 20, 2023 by BEngo

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The fasteners will make hundreds of cold bridges which will show up in winter as condensation spots on the floor.

 

Fastening direct to the cross bearers will also divide the bilge into several practically closed cells.  If proper provision has not been made for water to flow to the back these will fill up and rot the flooring.  Water can get in from leaks round fenestration,  a tank leak, a pipework leak or the pump leaking.  None of these are rare events.

Finally, you will have reduced the space available for ballast.

 

N

 

One would hope the cross members would have limber holes for water drainage, but with canal boats, who knows?

[Woodylog]

Hi

 

We fitted out a new Liverpool sailaway last year

 

We installed timber to each of the metal angle iron, drilled painted and bolted with stainless bolts. We then framed out top and bottom and put timbers between these. We did not use no nails as you want to allow the timber to move etc

 

We then had it spray foamed between all timber

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Woodylog said:

We then had it spray foamed between all timber

 

You spray-foamed under the floor?

[Woodylog]

No walls only ceiling

 

We installed wet system underfloor heating on top of the 18mm treated ply that was in place.

 

It is heated via a hurricane boiler, the piping is fitted in insulated boards. Keep the floor nice and toasty in the winter along with the log burner

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Woodylog said:

No walls only ceiling

 

We installed wet system underfloor heating on top of the 18mm treated ply that was in place.

 

It is heated via a hurricane boiler, the piping is fitted in insulated boards. Keep the floor nice and toasty in the winter along with the log burner

 

 

You confused me as all of the posts madein this thread in the last 18 years were referring to battening out the floor.

[james46]

13 hours ago, BEngo said:

The fasteners will make hundreds of cold bridges which will show up in winter as condensation spots on the floor.

 

Fastening direct to the cross bearers will also divide the bilge into several practically closed cells.  If proper provision has not been made for water to flow to the back these will fill up and rot the flooring.  Water can get in from leaks round fenestration,  a tank leak, a pipework leak or the pump leaking.  None of these are rare events.

Finally, you will have reduced the space available for ballast.

 

N

Hi thanks for the reply that makes sense even with battens though will surely still make it like a closed cell your just screwing to wood instead of the steel 

[BWM]

If headroom won't allow for fixing battens to the bearers, you may want to consider using a strip of neoprene between the bearer and the plywood. 

[james46]

42 minutes ago, james46 said:

Hi thanks for the reply that makes sense even with battens though will surely still make it like a closed cell your just screwing to wood instead of the steel 

3 minutes ago, BWM said:

If headroom won't allow for fixing battens to the bearers, you may want to consider using a strip of neoprene between the bearer and the plywood. 

Hi bwm thanks ill remember that i think ill be ok for head room thanks for the advice

14 hours ago, BEngo said:

The fasteners will make hundreds of cold bridges which will show up in winter as condensation spots on the floor.

 

Fastening direct to the cross bearers will also divide the bilge into several practically closed cells.  If proper provision has not been made for water to flow to the back these will fill up and rot the flooring.  Water can get in from leaks round fenestration,  a tank leak, a pipework leak or the pump leaking.  None of these are rare events.

Finally, you will have reduced the space available for ballast.

 

N

 

[Tony Brooks]

47 minutes ago, james46 said:

Hi thanks for the reply that makes sense even with battens though will surely still make it like a closed cell your just screwing to wood instead of the steel 

 

Two points. You could run the battens longitudinal, so here is an air gap above the cross members.

 

As I said above, the cross members SHOULD have limber oles in them to allow water to drain back. If you don't know what a limber hole is, then post a photo of a cross member showing a vertical face.

 

 

[james46]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Two points. You could run the battens longitudinal, so here is an air gap above the cross members.

 

As I said above, the cross members SHOULD have limber oles in them to allow water to drain back. If you don't know what a limber hole is, then post a photo of a cross member showing a vertical face.

 

 

Hi tony yes my boat has limber holes in the corners for water to go to the lowest point of the hull thats not a bad shout running them longitudinal thanks tony