Battening out

[boatgoball]

Just finished glueing and screwing all my battens

 

(used glue where there was no angle to screw to)

 

make sure you have good heating

 

the condensation inside a bare shell is horrendous and will stop the glue from sticking

 

found the best way for ceiling battens was to apply glue to batten slide about in situ to spread glue a bit then quickly prop in several places

 

make sure you have a batten where each panel joins so you have something to screw the edges down to

 

if you are drilling into steel angle buy a lot of drill bits (tungsten ones the others wont drill more than a few holes)

 

I used about 20 4mm drill bits on my shell

 

if in doubt use more battens rather than less and make sure you fill any gaps

 

condensation seems to collect anywhere it can and it will leave watermarks on your lining and warp it if you put it up before painting it

 

 

also plan where you are putting your electrics /plumbing before you start to batten

 

 

would recommend using screwfix stainless steel screws for battens and floor bearers

 

 

In this weather it would be good to get your battens and insulation in as quickly as possible

 

try not to make the mistake of putting loads of stuff on the boat

youll just end up constantly shifting stuff from one end to the other

[John Orentas]

Richard.

 

The knees were originally the angled components that fixed the hull side to the base of a barge or boat, they were often selected as a bent branch, later made from iron. Now extended to the area of transition of hull framing side and baseplate.

 

My knowledge of Liverpool boats is more than 20 years old, things have inevitably changed in the design.

 

Is yours a Liverpool Boat, I thought it was a midlands builder.

[Richard Bustens]

No it bloody well is not.

 

Hawkins, Northwich

 

http://www.barryhawkins-narrowboats.com/steelwork.htm

 

When i fitted the battening i only used 1 drill and 1000 self tapping screws and it took me all day, it's about ready for sharpening now.

[Gary Peacock]

Hi all,

 

Do I detect a slight dislike of Liverpool Boats here!

Liverpool boats produce boats of a quality that reflects their prices.

They are reasonable quality boats for the money!

Due to the numbers they produce and have on order they must have lots of happy customers.

 

But this is always worth remembering.

 

"There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey."

. . . John Ruskin (1819 – 1900)

 

Gary

[rustyduck]

Time for my 2p worth:

 

If you use 20 4mm drill bits for lining out, your drilling too fast. Just because it says HSS on the packet doesn't mean it'll take kindly to trying to fly through steel.

 

As for gluing, I'd be pretty confident that it'll last - After all it's the same stuff that used in the building trade and quite extensively on new houses.....on second thoughts.

 

If your really want the thing stuck, use an expoy glue. The boat will rot away before that stuff gives out. Not cheap though for the amount you need to line out.

[John Orentas]

Gary

 

Did he buy a Liverpool boat then.

[Richard Bustens]

Sorry im'e not knocking liverpool boats i just dont like scousers, probably coz my scouse business partner 6 years ago emptied the bank account and did a runner,

 

And i should not judge all by him.

[Gary Peacock]

I don't know if Mr Ruskin was one of Liverpool Boats happy customers, but he also said this-

 

Value . . .

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.

. . . John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

 

It makes quite a lot of sense in the boat business!

 

Gary

[Big COL]

I don't know if Mr Ruskin was one of Liverpool Boats happy customers, but he also said this-

 

Value . . .

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.

. . . John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

 

It makes quite a lot of sense in the boat business!

 

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Gary

 

Probably where the saying.( You get what you pay for ) came from.

[stuart]

Did he have any quotes about "boat builders time" rather than the normal human time we all know?!?

[david and julie]

Just curious but what do you need drill bits for when using self tappers? is it not easier with self drilling self tappers(drillpoint) or TEK screws and a drilldriver?

[Richard Bustens]

They will only work in 1-2mm max and then with a struggle they will not drill the angle iron it is hard enough after drilling

[Amicus]

Screwfix is your friend;

http://tinyurl.com/6phun

Or, ”Do It My Way”

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=56482&ts=8034

[david and julie]

These are the type I had in mind.

 

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=315945

 

We used to use them for plywood(wisa) flooring. The wings stop the wood riding up the screw, much easier and quicker.

[Amicus]

Thats the biz. Screwfix use to do that sort with a hex head, dont seem to do them now. I'd look for the hex head as they are easier to drive when working across oneself, right to left, if yous see wot I mean.

[Richard Bustens]

The screw fix ones don't work i tried them the hex ones and the self cutting self tapping ones the roofing ones would not pull into the wood without drilling a big hole first , if you try to pull them into the wood the head sheares off and the self tappers just striped them selfs.before going through

But the tex ones look like they will do it but £17 per 100 i used over 1000

[maffi mushkila]

If you use 20 4mm drill bits for lining out, your drilling too fast. Just because it says HSS on the packet doesn't mean it'll take kindly to trying to fly through steel.

 

I always taught my students to use a little light machine oil, though not easy when working over your head. There are recommended lubrcants for drilling nearly all metals, brass being an exception (self lubricating).

[maffi mushkila]

Sorry im'e not knocking liverpool boats i just dont like scousers, probably coz my scouse business partner 6 years ago emptied the bank account and did a runner,

 

And i should not judge all by him.

 

Ouch!

[david and julie]

Yes hex head are better(we needed countersunk)and yes they are dearer. I only used that link for the piccy and we never paid that much.

 

We found the shearing and/or blunt tip and then hard drilling were caused by the heat generated by the screw binding in the wood. The wings on the screw in the piccy counterbore a slightly larger hole to prevent this happening. The larger hole also lets the wood sit flat on the job.

 

We used to get them from the likes of these people.But there are many others.

 

http://www.albert-jagger.co.uk/

 

Many truck bodybuilding parts are common to boats and a lot cheaper than chandlers.

 

John Orentas, You may know these people they have a branch in Heywood. If you don't know them it is worth going and getting a catalogue.

[david and julie]

Yes hex head are better(we needed countersunk). I only used that link for the piccy and we never paid that much. If any of you try these you can reduce the price by getting the right length. The one in the piccy is dearer because it is for thicker steel, and is long, they are available for 3mm steel and upwards. Sorry if the bad choice of link caused confusion. btw. these screws are designed to go through the wood first and not the other way round.

 

We found the shearing and/or blunt tip and then hard drilling were caused by the heat generated by the screw binding in the wood. The wings on the screw in the piccy counterbore a slightly larger hole to prevent this happening. The larger hole also lets the wood sit flat on the job.

 

We used to get them from the likes of these people. But there are many others, including builders merchant.

 

http://www.albert-jagger.co.uk/

 

Many truck bodybuilding parts are common to boats and a lot cheaper than chandlers.

 

John Orentas, You may know these people they have a branch in Heywood. If you don't know them it is worth going and getting a catalogue.

[david and julie]

Sorry for the double post, I tried to add a bit for clarity. Not used to the site software yet.

[John Orentas]

If we are talking about self drilling fasteners here, I would not dream of using them on a DIY project. Even when I was in manufacturing business I rejected their use, the cost savings where greatly exaggerated and they are horrendously expensive, also they are really only intended for sheet metal use.

 

When you are building your own boat many of the cost / time considerations don't apply, when I built my boats I preferred to drill and tap, then use stainless or brass screws.

 

AND NEVER PENETRATED THE SHELL

[david and julie]

Steady on John, I'm new here and don't want to stand on any toes, yet, but.

 

I may be be wrong, and you are clearly more experienced than me at fitting out boats. I was under the impression that the forum(any forum) is to exchange ideas and information with each other. With that in mind, we all pick the bits that we think will help us, personally. I except your comment about cost implications, to a degree. Cost and time are relative to the person himself, some may want to spend more for a product if there is a big time difference, whilst others would prefer to take longer and use drilling and tapping or other methods of fixing. Neither methods are right nor wrong they are just different.

 

Regarding the product itself, yes they were first brough out for sheet metalwork as you say. However in the generally excepted sense the plate or angle mentioned, around 4,5 or 6 mm would not be considered as sheet. Regardless of the cost implications, these screws can and are used in plates this thick. Indeed in modern steel clad buildings they are driven into far thicker plate and RSJ's etc. The type on the link are also designed for wood to metal fixing.

 

You well may know the different fixing methods as I do too, but others without our engineering background may not. It is with this in mind that I want you to view anything I may say.

 

btw. I wouldn't drill a shell either except on brackets intended for that.I also like stainless and brass, but you are then back to cost and disimilar metals.

 

Lets not fall out yet. John

[John Orentas]

David.

 

Many thank for setting out my ground rules. Had you followed the latest threads you may have observed that the reference to drilling through the shell was not directed at yourself.

[david and julie]

No problem John,

 

Any ground rules are for me cos I'm the newbie here.

 

I know You didn't mean me when you said about drilling into shells and I didn't take it that way either. That is why I said I would only drill a bracket meant for it. I couldn't imagine anyone drilling through the sides and grinding away part of the screw, it sounds dreadful. I believe we are saying the same thing in a different way on that. I also presumed when talking about many holes that they were in stringers or such, and out of sight. Thats why a suggested the alternative.

 

Cheers, Dave.