Gas v Diesel Central Heating

[Alway Swilby]

It's looking like we are going to have to pay road duty on diesel that gets used by the heating boiler. So might it then be cheaper to run a gas heating boiler instead of a diesel one?

 

[Nickhlx]

Or, if circumstances permit, use 28 second home heating oil, currently at less than 60p / litre ?

 

Nick

[Alway Swilby]

Thanks Nick. However I doubt that will be readily available canal side.

We are at the early stages of having a boat built so we could get a second tank fitted but could just as easily have something like an Alde 3010 gas boiler fitted instead. My concern is that the cost of the gas would be more than white diesel.

[Nickhlx]

Yes true...

 

We went separate tanks as ours was being designed in 2008 and diesel duty was being reviewed then, leading to the propulsion / domestic duties... I run our diesel heating and diesel Refleks stove on 28 second from a front tank, and as we have oil fired heating at home, it was little problem to keep the tank topped - CCers would not find it so convenient.

 

One thing about gas is to make very sure your gas locker is deep enough to take more than the tiny ? 4kg gas bottles ours can only take as the smaller the bottles, the more the gas costs per kg... The locker bottom has to be above the waterline so leaks can drain out to the outside...

 

Nick

[MikeV]

If you're going to have a solid fuel stove and only use gas for occasional water heating in summer and brief bursts of central heating in Spring and Autumn then the Alde is a good choice. However I know of boaters who tried to use gas for heating in cold weather and a typical 13Kg cylinder only lasts a few days.

 

A big diesel tank and diesel heater will keep you warm for a lot longer!

[NB Lola]

We run ours off the calorifier, connected to shoreline or genny, or just the heat acquired via the engine. As we are not liveaboards I have no experience of longer term costs, Morso Squirrel eats free wood which does us most of the time

[trackman]

We've seen people use 13kg of propane in just 2 days in really cold weather with their Alde. That makes it really hard to keep up the supply of gas, aside from the cost.

Solid fuel stoves definitely seem the cheapest heating option, but I think diesel is likely too remain cheaper than gas for some time even if the suggested tax increase does happen.

[Nickhlx]

Can anyone post a link to the details of this suggested tax increase please ? I haven't seen the details yet...

 

Thank you,

 

Nick

[frangar]

I use my Alde to heat water away from the marina as well as for extra heat to supplement the morso in colder weather.

 

Although they do use a bit of gas (ours is the the older 2928 upright model) they use hardly any power or need any special or expensive parts that diesel systems see to require so I don't think the overall running costs are that bad really...(no £200 air motors!!)

 

I wouldn't be without my solid fuel stove for main heating but I would choose gas over diesel as a supplementary system anytime.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Phil Ambrose]

When we first moved onto our present boat we went the first winter using just our Ellis gas boiler to heat the boat, it was plenty warm enough and endless hot water but it was expensive, total gas used for 12 months was 62 13kg bottles. I subsequently fitted a solid fuel fire and saved a lot of money.

We only use the Ellis for a bit of heat in Autumn and Spring when the fire is off and we just want the odd half hour of heat.

 

Phil

[Alway Swilby]

Thanks for all the replies. We will have a multi fuel stove as our main source of heat in the winter. I'm thinking that we will go down the gas route.

 

Next question: The Alde 3010 has dimensions of Height 310 × Length 490 × Depth 340 mm. Would it be ok to put it in the engine bay maybe on top of the swim if there is room?

 

 

[Nickhlx]

Surely any leaks would fill the bilges ?

 

Nick

[Alway Swilby]

Surely any leaks would fill the bilges ?

 

Nick

 

Well, yes, but so would a leak from the cooker in the galley?

Edited August 26, 2013 by Alway Swilby

[Nickhlx]

Yes... but...

 

there are less sparky things in the kitchen ( or Galley)

 

You would likely notice any leak in the galley as you are probably in there more often

 

Its a bigger volume, so would need a bigger leak or a longer time to bring it up to an explosive mixture

 

Its likely to be better ventilated

 

I guess the regs would confirm what is allowed

 

Nick

[dor]

Next question: The Alde 3010 has dimensions of Height 310 × Length 490 × Depth 340 mm. Would it be ok to put it in the engine bay maybe on top of the swim if there is room?

 

In theory yes you could, although you would need to check the height of the flue. However there is some fairly fancy electronics in the 3010 which would not take kindly to any damp. They are not designed for a damp atmosphere so are not built to withstand it. I've even found that the control panel misbehaves if it gets a bit of damp in it. Whether the BSC allows the use of gas appliances in the bilge is another matter.

 

My 3010 is under the bed, at the foot and the flue goes up through the adjacent cupboard.

 

I wouldn't rely on a gas or diesel heater as my sole source of heat. Both will be expensive to run continuously and if you have a breakdown you have no alternative. I have a SF stove for the main source of heat, the Alde is used for hot water if the engine has not been run (or to top it up in the morning in winter) and to take the chill off the bathroom. We occasionally use it for the main radiators, but only maybe for an hour or so, either in the evenings in autumn before it is worth lighting the stove or to take the chill off the boat when we first arrive.

Edited August 26, 2013 by dor

[comfortably numb]

We have the older Alde 2928 and like others have found it uses too much gas to be economical. Even when using it for short periods for a quick burst of heating it uses a lot of gas, but that may not be helped in our case due to having thin (15mm?) pipes because even on a high setting it struggles to warm the boat. I would think think the modern Alde is more efficient though.

 

So we use our multi-fuel stove as our main source of heat, but when we bought the boat in January we looked into the alternatives and opted for changing to an diesel based one to supplement the stove but unfortunately our budget had to be spent on other things, Even with the possibility of full price diesel on the horizon I'd still go for that option if we had the dosh.

[Tony Brooks]

Just remember if retrofitting an Alde 3000 series heater that it should not be used with copper in the system - could cost a new calorifier. Not sure how Alde see the copper in brass radiator valves, taps etc.

[MtB]

Calor gas is insanely expensive compared to diesel, even DERV with full road tax paid (which is what all the boatyards will end up seliing once it has to be white diesel).

 

Stick with the diesel. Or solid fuel.

 

 

MtB

[jodansgang]

Here here MtB, we fitted diesel as you are more or less always able to keep the thing going (worst case) on the fuel from your engine.

Squirrel through the night, Webasto through the day.

Edited August 30, 2013 by jodansgang

[Naughty Cal]

Even if they do insist we use full duty diesel for all purposes on a boat (which is unlikely) how much extra does it really add to the fuel bill? Not much.

 

Gas is already expensive and as has been said if you only have small bottles is god damn more expensive.

 

Diesel is easy to get hold off, economical to run and clean.

 

No brained really.

[frangar]

Well I reckon once you have costed in running engines to keep batteries charged to power said diesel heater plus then allowing for all the expensive parts and servicing then you will find there really isn't much cost difference!

 

My Alde doesn't use anything like the gas people are quoting on here...and my boat isn't well insulated....I would never be without a solid fuel stove but as a top up or to heat water without running engine I would go for gas anytime.

 

Sometimes just the fuel cost isn't the only expense.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Naughty Cal]

Well I reckon once you have costed in running engines to keep batteries charged to power said diesel heater plus then allowing for all the expensive parts and servicing then you will find there really isn't much cost difference!

 

My Alde doesn't use anything like the gas people are quoting on here...and my boat isn't well insulated....I would never be without a solid fuel stove but as a top up or to heat water without running engine I would go for gas anytime.

 

Sometimes just the fuel cost isn't the only expense.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Who mentioned having to run the engine to keep the batteries topped up?

 

As for servicing, well we have not had to touch our heater for the five years we have owned the boat. Through the winter it is used at least four days a week and often more with no problem so far.

[Neil2]

Where I live everyone is on either propane or kerosene, and I don't think there is much to choose between. Oil is a more efficient fuel but the relatively low price of gas balances it out. (It's like the argument for converting your car to gas, it's not as efficient a fuel but it is so much cheaper.)

 

What is a factor in a domestic setting is the higher maintenance demands of oil fired appliances. Having said that, we have two houses, one runs on gas the other oil and the gas boiler has cost much more in maintenance over the last two years. That might be because the house is rented out though...

 

The less intensive use on a boat might negate this factor, so I'd be inclined to stick with oil, and even if the tax situation doesn't change, it makes some sense to rig up a separate supply so you can run on kerosene which is cheaper than DERV.

 

I'd like to know where you can get it at 60p a litre though.

[Nickhlx]

I get ours from a local supplier, who is usually a penny a litre cheaper than average, but the average has just gone up ( as we approach the heating season and the Syria problem escalates)...

 

http://www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php

 

Nick