Stoke Bruerne Visitor Moorings

[adam1uk]

Indeed. What with a residential boat on the pub mooring and half the available towpath opposite being a No Mooring stretch since they opened the marina (just a few months after they installed some rings there) it is invariably difficult to moor there. The towpath south of the bridge isn't good for mooring, with soft ground crumbly edges and shallow water, so the only option is to go north of the reed beds.

 

But before the marina opened, it was a winding hole (indeed, it still is), so you wouldn't have been able to moor there anyway.

 

And plenty of people do moor south of the bridge.

[alan_fincher]

 

But before the marina opened, it was a winding hole (indeed, it still is), so you wouldn't have been able to moor there anyway.

 

And plenty of people do moor south of the bridge.

Far more of the tow-path bank here has been made "no mooring" than would have been required by just a winding hole.

 

I take the previously made point that it is not easy for some boats to get in and out of the marina without considerably more of the tow-path being made no mooring than would otherwise be needed.

 

I could suggest though that perhaps the way in and out of any new marina should have been designed so this wasn't necessary(!)

 

As you say a people do moor South of the bridge, but it always looks to me that the combination of a poor edge and shallow water don't make it ideal.

 

It was never clear to me what SEVM would intend to do at Thrupp Wharf that remains a site they plan ultimately to hit. IIRC it was just named as a site, but no actual proposal was listed that would actually provide many good moorings to exercise control over!

[Catrin]

We've stopped at Cosgrove a few times this year less hassle than Stoke Breune. Food at Barley Mow was good and we were made welcome, dog friendly.

Dog friendly is good.

[GUMPY]

 

It was never clear to me what SEVM would intend to do at Thrupp Wharf that remains a site they plan ultimately to hit. IIRC it was just named as a site, but no actual proposal was listed that would actually provide many good moorings to exercise control over!

 

Doubt if it was clear to JW he probably thinks its on the Oxford Canal.

[alan_fincher]

Doubt if it was clear to JW he probably thinks its on the Oxford Canal.

No idea (!)

 

It seems one of the odder ones on the list, although there were others, certainly.

[Mike Tee]

 

It was never clear to me what SEVM would intend to do at Thrupp Wharf that remains a site they plan ultimately to hit. IIRC it was just named as a site, but no actual proposal was listed that would actually provide many good moorings to exercise control over!

Only a thought, but do C&RT realise there are two 'Thrupps'?

[alan_fincher]

Only a thought, but do C&RT realise there are two 'Thrupps'?

Both are separately listed on the original 22 site proposal, each with the correct canal name against it, so at least some of those involved in this must do!

 

One of the greater ambiguities is they listed just "Black Horse", but that actually could yield multiple possibilities. If they had added "Milton Keynes", "Stantonbury" or "near Linford" to their description any confusion could easily be avoided.

 

By the way, Black Horse is another site I can't imagine you would place amongst the 22 needing attention throughout the whole of South East Waterways. Someone honestly believed that there is more of a problem Thrupp Wharf (GU) or Black Horse than at (say) Braunston? Really? Not anybody who actually does much boating on the Southern Grand Union, of that, at least, I'm confident.

[alan_fincher]

Here are the replies from Matthew Symonds from CRT to the detailed list of questions I posted above....

 

Alan

 

I hope this answers your additional questions.

 

Overall maximum days in any calendar month.

I think that there was one (larger welcome) sign where the 10 days should have been over stickered with a 14 day sticker. This was missed by the person putting on the stickers, this has either already been corrected or will be done very shortly. We have re-checked the totems at Stoke Bruerne and believe they are now correct but If you can identify any totems you think are still incorrect we will of course look at these again.

 

Welcome Boards.

The wording used on the sticker added to the welcome sign state ‘For winter stay durations please see totems, welcome leaflet or website’. The sticker doesn’t state that all of the zones have different winter stay times. We have updated the totems, welcome leaflet and website to explain the winter stay durations, so I don’t think this sticker should confuse anyone.

 

Winter Single Stay Limit in “tunnel” pound, North of Disabled Moorings.

This particular junction is much more complex than others for obvious reasons. The short term solution we have implemented for those who found this totem confusing was to remove the reference to ‘Winter – 14 days ‘ from the totem adjoining the 2 day zone (i.e. north end of the disabled). Whichever way this totem is rearranged it will be confusing / not grasped by some – therefore we will place a second totem alongside so that the left hand totem refers to the 2 day tunnel stretch & the right hand totem refers to disabled only. The totem at the southern end still has the 14 days in winter tile communicating on the ground that the disabled zone is 14 days in winter as well as this being communicated in the welcome leaflet and the map on the website, we think this is sufficiently clear until the additional totem is installed.

 

Winter Mooring Arrangements In The “Long Pound”

This map is no longer available on the website.

 

Use Of Moorings Below The Bottom Lock As Paid For “Winter Moorings”

As I’ve explained if there is space available on the winter mooring area other boaters may moor there for the period indicated on the towpath signage. We have decided not to add any additional ‘winter mooring permit zone’ signage to any of the areas being used for winter mooring permits. Boaters can moor for free for the period advertised on the towpath signage if there is space available. The map only shows winter mooring as we felt it would be confusing if we tried to show the mooring zone times as shown on the towpath signs as well. To help clarify that mooring is permitted if there is space available we’ll add something to the VM webpages. As of today we have not sold any winter mooring permits for Stoke Bruerne and these have been open to all those eligible to purchase since 1 November. There does not appear to be a great demand for the winter moorings as yet, so I anticipate that there will be space for others to moor.

 

Trading Boats

1. The terms and conditions for Trade Boats remain the same for summer and winter;

‘Roving Traders displaying a valid business licence may stay in a two day zone for four days but must adhere to all other conditions. Only two Roving Traders may moor in a zone at any one time. Breasted up trade boats count as one on a visitor mooring at Stoke Bruerne visitor moorings, but boats that travel as a pair MUST remain breasted up as a pair on a 2 day visitor mooring (where space permits). This is so that the ‘only two trading boats at a time’ rule does not result in one trader having an unfair advantage by occupying the 2 trading boat spaces for the duration of their 4 day stay.’

2. There is no limit in the current terms and conditions for the number of days a trade boat with a disabled boater may moor on a disabled mooring other than if the disabled mooring is a 2 day zone in which case the trader would be allowed to moor for 4 days.

3. Yes, the same ’14 days in a month’ rules apply to trade boats.

4. As set out in the terms and conditions above, there is a maximum of two trade boats permitted in the same zone. We are reviewing the Trade Boat terms and conditions as part of the review of VMs as we accept that if the two Trade Boats in a zone limit may be difficult to enforce if it unclear which two boats arrived first.

 

Sorry it’s taken me a few days to come back to you as I’ve been travelling and in meetings a lot this week.

 

Best wishes

 

Matthew

Matthew Symonds

Boater Liaison Manager (South)

 

 

I think basically Matthew has answered all I asked, and my reply seeks only one small further clarification.

Matthew,

 

Thank you, and all seems a lot clearer.

 

One point not mentioned I think is that whilst you acknowledge all “Welcome boards” will get amended to reflect 14 days maximum in a month, I also believe that not all at one stage had had the amendment relating to different stay times in winter either. Can we safely assume this has been added, or will shortly be added to any “Welcome” board that may previously have escaped some of the modifications?

 

Anyway the answers are clear enough that I will post them alongside the questions, so people can see the latest state of play.

 

Thank you,

 

Alan

 

[Leo No2]

Certainly the sign by the old stables is now set to 14 days (it was showing 10) - I walked up that way this afternoon in the sunshine. The additional wording (For winter stay durations please see totems, welcome leaflet or website) is not yet on the large sign outside the Museum but I see that as a 'Nice to have' rather than a 'Must have'.

[Tuscan]

Went upto the boat today for a trip down to Foxton basin. Whilst a Debdale said hello to a boat a couple of pontoons up very nice live aboard couple that had retired , immediately launched into a tirade about you cant go down to the basin for a long weekend anymore etc etc. Taken aback a bit by the this which they felt was shared most of the fellow boaters in the marina from this I would deduce Richard Parry's may have a way to go to get his new communication working.

 

What's definately true the place is pretty soulless as there are a couple of winter moorers on the 7 day spaces , there is space on the 48 hour/reserved winter moorings but here there has been no relaxation I assume they are expecting a rush of boats out of Harborough as the flight is closed.

 

Moored by the service point which is normally closed off for the winter from November (there is only tap that keeps going over the winter) but still has no mooring service point sign. Party of young school kids all very excited as they were on a school trip to see the locks and boats so we were the main attraction.

 

Signs were changed from 10 days to 14 days. Pub and shop were two businesses that complained to CRT in the recent questionnaire, hope they survive, the shop in particular provides a valuable service to boaters .

[alan_fincher]

Not sure I have found best thread to put this in.

 

May add it to others, (there are several related, I think).

 

From latest Boaters Update.

 

On 6 November around 35 people attended a meeting to help review and inform the South East Visitor Moorings project. It was an opportunity to share the feedback we’ve received so far, the findings from our follow-up survey with boats sighted and local canal side businesses (although we are not making any decisions based solely on these). Most importantly it was a chance to discuss what we do next with VMs in 2014. The two key messages from those attending was that we need to simplify the VM arrangements (particularly signage and communication) and ensure that whatever is done next with VMs in 2014 is well informed (by looking at evidence and intelligence about specific VM sites). This will be taken into account by the newly formed South East Waterways Partnership Boating Sub Group when it discusses VMs at its first meeting in early December.

 

[jenlyn]

"On 6 November around 35 people attended a meeting to help review and inform the South East Visitor Moorings project. It was an opportunity to share the feedback we’ve received so far, the findfriend's om our follow-up survey with boats sighted and local canal side businesses (although we are not making any decisions based solely on these). Most importantly it was a chance to discuss what we do next with VMs in 2014. The two key messages from those attending was that we need to simplify the VM arrangements (particularly signage and communication) and ensure that whatever is done next with VMs in 2014 is well informed (by looking at evidence and intelligence about specific VM sites). This will be taken into account by the newly formed South East Waterways Partnership Boating Sub Group when it discusses VMs at its first meeting in early December".

 

In other words,

 

"we have not succeeded in persuading the majority to help us develop the problem, so lets take it away from consultation, and put it through the sub group. This will work well, because we have manipulated the members for it. To make it look authentic, we have added a couple of nay sayers. Hee hee"

 

regards

j

 

[Leo No2]

Not sure I have found best thread to put this in.

 

May add it to others, (there are several related, I think).

 

From latest Boaters Update.

 

Alan - why not ask Daniel for a place to 'pin' the Boater's Updates and anything else you may wish to share with us with you being part for the Boaters sub-group in the same way that Crew Swaps are done. CRT have said they wish to improve the communication with boaters and I see giving the Boater's Updates (and the like) it's own place (but pinned) a good way of holding out the Olive branch. Edited November 18, 2013 by Leo No2

[Tuscan]

The other key message from the meeting was that more visitor moorings were needed.

 

What's interesting is the the SE partnership would now appear to being consulted on operational boating issues like moorings. I assume that CRT will be looking for other partnerships to set up boating CRT groups now. Would it not make it more sense that the panel reported direct to CRT?

[Tom and Bex]

Can anyone say exactly where we are allowed to moor at Foxton now? Getting confused by all this signage and maps and to be honest have been put off visiting since the new restrictions came in. The signage looks horrendous. Will be heading up there from Debdale direction tomorrow for 1-2 nights.

 

Can we moor this side of the basin as I understand you can't now moor there or will we have to go through the swing bridge to moor? If so we'll then have to reverse back through to turn or carry on through Foxton swingbridge (twice!) to turn.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

Edited November 19, 2013 by Tom and Bex

[Tuscan]

Hi Tom, although all the VM's to the basin is shown as reserved for winter moorings,they have only sold a couple , so you can moor on any gaps but as they are so busy with such high demand in the winter you can only moor for 48 hours. The water taps on this side are normally turned off about now so you should be able to moor on the service area this does not feature on the signs - they had run out of room i suspect - god knows how long you can stay there. Due to the constant queues for the locks (now closed !) there is now no mooring in the basin apart from a 24 hour mooring against the CRT pub in the basin, due to the high winter demand ? This remains 24 hours.

 

You will not be able to moor on the towpath prior to the visitor moorings as this is now taken up by winter moorers.

 

I came down and moored for a couple of hours last week with no difficulty as has been the case in the past.

[alan_fincher]

Hi Tom, although all the VM's to the basin is shown as reserved for winter moorings,they have only sold a couple , so you can moor on any gaps but as they are so busy with such high demand in the winter you can only moor for 48 hours. The water taps on this side are normally turned off about now so you should be able to moor on the service area this does not feature on the signs - they had run out of room i suspect - god knows how long you can stay there. Due to the constant queues for the locks (now closed !) there is now no mooring in the basin apart from a 24 hour mooring against the CRT pub in the basin, due to the high winter demand ? This remains 24 hours.

 

Sarcasm is a long way from dead, then!

[Tom and Bex]

Thanks for that info. Never had a problem mooring there before all this came out but just can't be bothered with all the off putting and at times confusing signs.

 

The businesses there have definitely lost out on our trade this year. Will give it another go today though.

[Tuscan]

Thanks for that info. Never had a problem mooring there before all this came out but just can't be bothered with all the off putting and at times confusing signs.

The businesses there have definitely lost out on our trade this year. Will give it another go today though.

I would post a note of your experience of mooring and signage on here as Mr Fincher ,for it is he, is a member of the SE boaters group linked to the partnership that CRT is now going to consult about these and other visitor moorings.

[alan_fincher]

I would post a note of your experience of mooring and signage on here as Mr Fincher ,for it is he, is a member of the SE boaters group linked to the partnership that CRT is now going to consult about these and other visitor moorings.

 

Yes,

 

For reasons not entirely clear to us, South East Waterways see further work on the South East Visitor Moorings falling within the scope of the "Boaters's Sub Group" of the South East Waterways Partnership. (In my view Partnerships are more about long term plans, community engagement and fund-raising, and many would see this as more of a current operational issue about one aspect of how the waterways are managed now).

 

This group has not actually met yet, the first meeting being in a couple of weeks time, and so far whilst the majority of those who will be in it have been named, there are one or two still being selected.

 

It is early days yet to even guess where this may next progress, but of course I am very happy to hear any views expressed by any of you, whether broadly in favour, broadly opposed, or largely neutral on the topic.

 

It is important that decisions ultimately taken reflect what the majority of boaters actually think, so all input is useful. I see part of my role to listen, and form a view of what I think the collective view is on any topic. Any decisions should not be based on the strong views of a small number of individuals - that has happened too much in the past. We need to make sure that as changes are made there is good evidence for making them, and there is at least majority support for doing so, even if there is little chance of ever reaching total consensus.

[MtB]

 

Sarcasm is a long way from dead, then!

 

This device will tell you!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMr8yCbGqN8

 

 

MtB

[RLWP]

It is important that decisions ultimately taken reflect what the majority of boaters actually think, so all input is useful.

 

In which case Alan, I'd like to quote this:

 

Thanks for that info. Never had a problem mooring there before all this came out but just can't be bothered with all the off putting and at times confusing signs.

 

and say how much this is also my view. When I'm out boating, I'm relaxing. The last thing I want is to moor up somewhere where I have to interpret signs, get notes on how long to stay, have my boat number taken and generally be treated like a potential criminal.

 

'These are the rules, have you read the rules, this is the penalty for not obeying the rules, I'm just checking that you are following the rules'

 

Too scary - I'll moor elsewhere thanks

 

This solution to the perceived problem is annoying and putting off boaters

 

Richard

Edited November 19, 2013 by RLWP

[MtB]

 

In which case Alan, I'd like to quote this:

 

 

and say how much this is also my view. When I'm out boating, I'm relaxing. The last thing I want is to moor up somewhere where I have to interpret signs, get notes on how long to stay, have my boat number taken and generally be treated like a potential criminal.

 

'These are the rules, have you read the rules, this is the penalty for not obeying the rules, I'm just checking that you are following the rules'

 

Too scary - I'll moor elsewhere thanks

 

This solution to the perceived problem is annoying and putting off boaters

 

Richard

 

 

Me too. I doubt I'll be stopping there ever again either.

 

Paradoxically, people thinking like us will probably ensure there is plenty of space on the VMs there in future and CRT will declare the new rules a runaway success!

 

 

MtB

[jenlyn]

In which case Alan, I'd like to quote this:

 

 

 

 

 

and say how much this is also my view. When I'm out boating, I'm relaxing. The last thing I want is to moor up somewhere where I have to interpret signs, get notes on how long to stay, have my boat number taken and generally be treated like a potential criminal.

 

'These are the rules, have you read the rules, this is the penalty for not obeying the rules, I'm just checking that you are following the rules'

 

Too scary - I'll moor elsewhere thanks

 

This solution to the perceived problem is annoying and putting off boaters

 

Richard

which is ok for now, but what if the scam succeeds and expands? How many "places" will you eventually have to steer clear of to avoid this harassment?

[Ssscrudddy]

Me too, what RLWP said.

I'm new to boating, 7 weeks now. When I came through SB I didnt take too much notice as I would only be staying 1 night. But I did take a quick look.

The general gist of it seemed to me to be,

welcome... OR ELSE GET FINED...
blah museum OR ELSE GET FINED...
blah blah blah OR ELSE GET FINED
OR ELSE GET FINED
OR ELSE GET FINED

& I cant say that I was too impressed when I came back a few days later, stayed 1 night again, got back from the pub the same night to find a leaflet stuck to the boat which basically said the same thing,

just with a bit more blah & a bit more OR ELSE GET FINED

I thought to myself Go forth & multiply, cant you see my boat is facing the other direction!!!

The no more than 48 hours I found a bit annoying (for the future) because this means I cant do a long weekend, & seeing as my home marina is 1 day away (Northampton Becketts Park) SB is the obvious place of choice to go to. Also the 10 day (as it was signed then) limit per calendar month means I can forget about going there every weekend in a month if 1 of those includes a long weekend.

In fact I will go so far as to say this is making me reconsider getting a gold licence, if I'm not allowed to go to the nearest nicest place then why spend my money.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Ssscrudddy