Stoke Bruerne Visitor Moorings

[Leo No2]

The main "Welcome" boards have had a sticky label attached at the bottom, which says that you can "see the totems" for details of the winter restrictions.

(This is squeezed in in ridiculously small lettering).

 

However, as of yesterday, there was nothing on the totems......

Understand they came down yesterday and put replacement stickers on (to show winter timings) and then came back this morning (before I went to look) to take them off again as they had gone up too soon. Well these things happen but at least it looks as if the restrictions will be changed to the winter timings later this week which is the result most boaters were looking for.

[Leo No2]

I am really quite surprised (even confused).

 

The map on CRT website shows between the Museum Green and the Tunnel Mouth as being two days only for the winter (http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4734.pdf) but a quick walk up the cut this morning shows that, at least, the first two totem poles have 14 day (ice blue) signage added.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2013 by Leo No2

[alan_fincher]

Given both the hasty amendment of the "winter" map to stop much of the "long pound" being shown as "no mooring", and now this mismatch between the signage and map in the tunnel pound, I think the most logical explanation is a series of cock-ups by those involved, rather than any deliberate attempt to do less than was originally agreed.

It wasn't exactly hard though, and their capacity to keep getting it wrong does surprise me.

 

(Tongue in cheek), I wonder if the new "tiles" have been placed as low down as possible on the posts in the hope that when CRT's contractors fail to keep the grass under control it will not actually be possible to see them. At the very least they are in the "spatter zone" for trimmings, and I reckon easily damaged by a flailing strimmer - doesn't seem the best place to put them!

 

At least the "November to March" is completely unambiguous, though, unlike many of the previous massively complex suggestion made for what the actual period should be!

[MtB]

And of course, they'll have to be dog wee-proof....

 

 

MtB

[Leo No2]

I think it is left and right not knowing exactly what each is doing (maps one department and putting the signage up another perhaps - my experience of large corporates is that it is surprisingly difficult sometimes to coordinate things) - I am not sure I would go along with the PDF files showing the map having differing file name as appears to be the case - I'd keep the name the same but keep the version copies off line.

 

I do think they are doing their best (probably in challenging circumstances) and it is all too easy to criticise when standing on the outside looking in.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Leo No2

[Mike Tee]

Given that this is (I think) a conservation area, how do they get away with putting up all these signs, apparantly in any colour, position, etc without planning permission?

Actually, thats a rhetorical question because they can do anything they want. Apparantly.

[Leo No2]

Given that this is (I think) a conservation area, how do they get away with putting up all these signs, apparantly in any colour, position, etc without planning permission?

Actually, thats a rhetorical question because they can do anything they want. Apparantly.

It is a conservation area (but where the totem poles are only just - see http://www.southnorthants.gov.uk/Stoke_Bruerne.pdf). I realise that ice blue suggests winter and I suppose the signage should stand out from the others but a removable sticker over the other signs showing the winter restrictions may have been more in keeping in my view. Edited November 1, 2013 by Leo No2

[alan_fincher]

I do think they are doing their best (probably in challenging circumstances) and it is all too easy to criticise when standing on the outside looking in.

It must be costing a lot of money and wasted effort though, and some of those involved are, I believe, on long-term contracts with CRT, and presumably not a cheap resource.

 

This may seem a radical suggestion, but why could the Winter variation not have been included on the poles when all the new signage was being put there in the first place. Instead we have teams repeatedly back to modify signs, or add new "tiles" to them, (as must have occurred with the "tunnel waiting area", for instance, also the failure to originally include the "7 day" length in the "long pound").

 

Instead, with the "Winter" thing, there has been what could be interpreted as a degree of secrecy about something most of us fully believed was agreed by consensus at a workshop back in May, (e.g. meetings with various people or groups where the answer seemed to be "wait and see"). Then maps start appearing that show massively less than what was agreed, (well actually look like they flew in the face of what was agreed, at which point I, at least, felt pretty peeved!).

 

I'm certainly not accusing them of any duplicity, (absolutely not), but in view of how emotional the whole topic has been to many people they certainly have done themselves no favours by continuing to make mistakes.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2013 by alan_fincher

[Leo No2]

 

This may seem a radical suggestion, but why could the Winter variation not have been included on the poles when all the new signage was being put there in the first place. Instead we have teams repeatedly back to modify signs, or add new "tiles" to them, (as must have occurred with the "tunnel waiting area", for instance, also the failure to originally include the "7 day" length in the "long pound").

 

 

Could not agree more.

 

April to October limited to 2 days

November to March limited to 14 days

 

That's been in my mind for a while but it was, so me, so obvious, that I assumed it had been considered and discarded.

[Mike Tee]

I don't think they are duplicious either, but I am now convinced they are, in general, incompetent.

Logistics, manufacturing alcohol and micturition spring to mind.

[alan_fincher]

I have emailed Jeff Whyatt on two points.

 

1) Mismatch on stay times in stretch to tunnel mouth between "totems" (showing 14 days) and map (showing 2 days).

2) Whether any casual mooring will be available below the bottom lock, or whether people approaching SB from the South will only be able to moor there by working up and down the flight.

If Jeff replies, and is agreeable, I will publish answers received.

[john6767]

Could not agree more.

 

April to October limited to 2 days

November to March limited to 14 days

 

That's been in my mind for a while but it was, so me, so obvious, that I assumed it had been considered and discarded.

 

Could someone in the know elaborate on why there new regulations use "2 days" rather than "48 hours"?

 

In Braunston (from memory) the stretch opposite the Boat House has been "48 hours, 14 days in winter" for sometime. What is different about this other than that additional constrain of 14 days per month, which presumably also continues over the winter?

[Leo No2]

Could someone in the know elaborate on why there new regulations use "2 days" rather than "48 hours"?

 

In Braunston (from memory) the stretch opposite the Boat House has been "48 hours, 14 days in winter" for sometime. What is different about this other than that additional constrain of 14 days per month, which presumably also continues over the winter?

John - if you look at the map in detail is does say as follows 'Recorded stay time: is measured by the number of nights between the first and latest sighting. A boat recorded at any time on two consecutive days will be treated as having stayed for one whole day and a single sighting of a boat on one day only will be recorded as a one day visit.' It's really not clear and I think the issue is that the 'data collector' can come at any time of the day so if you arrive at say 15:00 and they have just been you get a free night but I would imagine it can swing the other way as well and you could get caught for a night when you only popped into the pub for pint (or two). Perhaps it is just a swings and roundabouts situation. I have not seen a change in the number of days you can stay in a calendar month.

[alan_fincher]

I have answers from South East Waterways on two out of three questions raised about the winter arrangements for Visitor Moorings at Stoke Bruerne.

 

As soon as I have confirmation on the third question I raised, I'll post all replies received.

[ditchcrawler]

Could not agree more.

 

April to October limited to 2 days

November to March limited to 14 days

 

That's been in my mind for a while but it was, so me, so obvious, that I assumed it had been considered and discarded.

Sounds just like Banbury or Napton by the Bridge Inn

[adam1uk]

I can now see why the totem poles had to be so tall. I wonder how long it will take to come up with a couple more tiles to fill up what space remains.

[MtB]

I can now see why the totem poles had to be so tall. I wonder how long it will take to come up with a couple more tiles to fill up what space remains.

 

I'm wondering how long it will be before all the tiles are levered off and chucked in the cut.

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

I can now see why the totem poles had to be so tall. I wonder how long it will take to come up with a couple more tiles to fill up what space remains.

Don't joke, please!

 

It looks like part of the answer is going to be that some of the posts still do not yet have their full complement of 'tiles'.

[john6767]

John - if you look at the map in detail is does say as follows 'Recorded stay time: is measured by the number of nights between the first and latest sighting. A boat recorded at any time on two consecutive days will be treated as having stayed for one whole day and a single sighting of a boat on one day only will be recorded as a one day visit.' It's really not clear and I think the issue is that the 'data collector' can come at any time of the day so if you arrive at say 15:00 and they have just been you get a free night but I would imagine it can swing the other way as well and you could get caught for a night when you only popped into the pub for pint (or two). Perhaps it is just a swings and roundabouts situation. I have not seen a change in the number of days you can stay in a calendar month.

Thanks, it does seem very unclear.

[Tuscan]

When I was at the workshop ,which I thought was part of he consultation process, I thought that it was agreed that the in the winter the moorings would go back to the previous arrangements.

 

Instead what I can see is that , penalty charges remain, maximum stay times in a calandar month remain, no mooring in Foxton basin remain. What has changed is that where there were 2 day moorings there is now NO mooring as ALL the visitor moorings from the direction of Leicester are now reserved for winter moorings.

 

So from that direction if you wish to stay to make use of any of the pubs at the basin you either have to go up the flight (ah no you can't closes on 4 Nov) and hope there is a spot at the top if not wind and come back down go through the swing bridge and moor on the towpath then travel 2 miles and wind and return or reverse back through the swing bridge. If you are on one of the canal time timeshare boats coming out of the Harborough basin guess you will get to the bottom of the flight realise there is no mooring, go through to the visitor moorings realise there is now no mooring and keep your money in your pocket and keep going.

[matty40s]

Don't joke, please!

It looks like part of the answer is going to be that some of the posts still do not yet have their full complement of 'tiles'.

selling advertising space will be next...

[Tuscan]

I see this has been picked up by Steve Hayward in Decembers Canal & River Boat,

[jenlyn]

What do NABO intend to do with this debacle Mark? Are they intending to take any action on it, or will it just be a statement?

[Tuscan]

What do NABO intend to do with this debacle Mark? Are they intending to take any action on it, or will it just be a statement?

It's not just up to me of course , we will be seekng guidance from our members at our AGM on Nov 16th at Wolverhampton Boat Club at 1045 , Richard Parry has confirmed his attendance. We also have a meeting with him at CRTs offices before this and I intend to raise it there. We have some other ideas but these need to be agreed by the new council following the AGM.

 

Personally now that it's clear that the £25 fine the no return is here to stay even in the winter I think a few more boaters are beginning to see that it's not just a few "noisy" boaters making a fuss but a real potential threat to the laid back compliant cruising of many Continous cruisers and marina based boaters alike once this spreads to other visitor moorings or maybe just a normal 14 day towpath mooring.

 

I spent two days at Foxton this week on the second day I was inspected twice morning and afternoon despite very few boats I moved off in the rain on the morning of the third day, last year I would have stayed until the rain stopped.

[jenlyn]

It's not just up to me of course , we will be seekng guidance from our members at our AGM on Nov 16th at Wolverhampton Boat Club at 1045 , Richard Parry has confirmed his attendance. We also have a meeting with him at CRTs offices before this and I intend to raise it there. We have some other ideas but these need to be agreed by the new council following the AGM.

Personally now that it's clear that the £25 fine the no return is here to stay even in the winter I think a few more boaters are beginning to see that it's not just a few "noisy" boaters making a fuss but a real potential threat to the laid back compliant cruising of many Continous cruisers and marina based boaters alike once this spreads to other visitor moorings or maybe just a normal 14 day towpath mooring.

I spent two days at Foxton this week on the second day I was inspected twice morning and afternoon despite very few boats I moved off in the rain on the morning of the third day, last year I would have stayed until the rain stopped.

it's time to do something before it's too late, I have no doubt in my mind (in fact i know) jeff whyatt intends to steam ahead with the other areas after xmas. Even though he still has no evidence showing the need.

The state of the canals is getting worse with by his own admittance "not having enough funds" yet he finds sufficient funds to implement something he cannot explain the need for.