Agressive Hire Boat Thugs

[blackrose]

I hate wankers like that who get out of their cars and bring their nasty road rage onto the waterways.

Unless there was an actual assault it's very doubtful the police would take any action as no offence was committed.

 

Isn't a threat of violence an offence? Genuine question - I don't know.

[Guest]

I hate wankers like that who get out of their cars and bring their nasty road rage onto the waterways.

 

Isn't a threat of violence an offence? Genuine question - I don't know.

I assume one can still be arrested for threatening behaviour.

[comfortably numb]

As well as informing the hire company I think it is essential to also inform the CRT. That way, if they receive a number of complaints and the hire company fails to do anything about it (or prove retrospectively that they did take some action), CRT could threaten to revoke their licence. That way an errant hire company might take more responsibility in future.

[rgreg]

 

Isn't a threat of violence an offence? Genuine question - I don't know.

Yes it is:

Harassment, alarm or distress

 

The offence

 

 

 

Intentional, harassment alarm or distress

 

Harassment, alarm or distress is a statutory offence in England and Wales. It is also a term of art used in sections 4A and 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 (which take their names from this expression).

 

The offence is created by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:

 

"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he: (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or ( displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."

Edited July 22, 2013 by rgreg

[Starcoaster]

Yes I got £50 compensation (paid at 50p a week...) awarded to me by a Magistrate's court when I was about 19 working in a security role. The offence the guy was found guilty of was something like "to put (another person) in fear of violence." I wasn't actually scared of him, but it was the intent that counted, apparently!

Edited July 22, 2013 by Starcoaster

[deckhand]

Just stand well back and get your video camera out, then if there is any damage done, CRT could use it against them?

[Phil Ambrose]

This sort of behaviour was a normal part of life when we moored on the Broads. It seems that when these yobs come on holiday on a boat they believe there is no law and order. Apart from 2 Navigation Rangers on each river everyday plus volunteers the Norfolk Constabulary have a dedicated waterborn branch known as "The Broads Beat" these guys a RIB with a 150HP outboard and I have seen it hit around 60mph with only the prop in the water (seen them with H & K,s)

 

All the hire companies take bad behaviour very seriously, I remember 3 boatloads of Estate Agents on a company jolly were coralled in a hire basin for 24 hours till their boss came and read them the riot act.

I myself have called on the Broads Beat on more than one occasion for things like people mooring up at my place to P*ss in my garden and give me threats when I objected, all the usual anti social stuff.

 

I know for fact that each year 2 or 3 boats are taken back from the hirers due to them being shall we say naughty.

 

The fact is this cr*p happens everywhere but how it is resolve varies from place to place.

 

Phil

[Ally]

I agree, the company hiring the boat out should have been immediately informed. They may have had other calls about them & dcide to therefore act more specifically....as they have done with a previous hire crew recently!

[John Holden]

One time we were deliberately rammed by another boat. The company we had hired off not only failed to do anything about it (that company are our mates!) but we lost our deposit to pay for the damage!

[Lysander]

Isn't a threat of violence an offence? Genuine question - I don't know.

Offences 4, 4A & 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 cover this sort of situation and are invoked quite often.

 

4. Fear or provocation of violence.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked.

 

4A. Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

 

5.Harassment, alarm or distress

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby

 

[Midnight Rider]

Offences 4, 4A & 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 cover this sort of situation and are invoked quite often.

 

4. Fear or provocation of violence.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked.

 

4A. Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

 

5.Harassment, alarm or distress

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby

 

If I remember correctly, S5 needs to be happening in the view of the police before an arrest can be made & you wouldn't make a case for the more serious S4 with just a few choice words.

[Biggles]

Just go down to the gun safe, load your shot gun and fire a couple of barrels into the air and see the resultant poop.

[deckhand]

Just go down to the gun safe, load your shot gun and fire a couple of barrels into the air and see the resultant poop.

You run a severe risk of losing your licence and having charges brought against you.

[Biggles]

You run a severe risk of losing your licence and having charges brought against you.

 

Charges for what? Rabbits are always in season. Bet no one will exactly recall (under oath) where they saw you fire.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Biggles

[Dyad]

I was asked to help a friend crew on a trip upto Zouch lock yesterday (sunday 21st) apart from the odd little bit of mist and drizzle the trip started fairly well , I helped a few people at Loughborough Lock and again at Bishops Meadow, Then when we arived at Zouch lock there was a hire boat in the lock and her crew (two young lads 18/20 yr olds) ragging the lock gates rocking them violently backwards and forwards to which i raised my eyebrows, they eventually managed to close the bottom gates oped the paddles for the top gates heading towards Zouch, and again started to rag one of the gates backwards and forwards shaking and rocking in an agressive manner .......................................This time i had to just say something so i politley suggested if they treat the lock gate with a little respect it and also to wait until all the water was level the gates would then open easier..............................................

 

I wish id kept my mouth and opinions to my self not only did i get threatened by the two lads on the lock gates but also by there father who was on the tiller and all the people in the hire boat too, They all threatened to smash my face in and throw me in the lock ....................A great sunday afternoon ruined by idiots and now im worried to venture out ...Next time ill say nowt . So Beware of Idiot Hire Boat Thugs.

 

Perhaps filming their antics and reporting them to CRT and/or the hire company may have been more prudent than than confronting them ... but I'm just a coward.

[Ange]

 

Perhaps filming their antics and reporting them to CRT and/or the hire company may have been more prudent than than confronting them ... but I'm just a coward.

Not a coward my friend but a good and kindly soul who isn't equipped for physical violence, the same as my husband.

 

Tis right and prudent to take the safe option in these cases.

[paul68]

Yes it is:

Harassment, alarm or distress

 

The offence

 

 

 

Intentional, harassment alarm or distress

 

Harassment, alarm or distress is a statutory offence in England and Wales. It is also a term of art used in sections 4A and 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 (which take their names from this expression).

 

The offence is created by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:

 

"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he: (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or ( displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."

 

Yes threatening behaviour is an offence but proving it is another matter, when I reported being threatened I was asked for witnesses, there weren't any so it would have been my word against theirs, also the yobs had long gone so how can the police be expected to take any action.

[Doorman]

I was once threatened by a hirer and reported the incident to the hire company.

 

They reported back that they had already received numerous complaints from boaters along the route and were arranging to meet them at a nearby bridgehole, complete with police presence to get their boat back and cut short the miscreants' holiday.

 

By way of compensation they offered me a tank of diesel and their apologies.

 

The apology and their action was plenty, in my opinion, so I declined the diesel.

 

Commendable action by the hire company and from the sound of MtB very rare indeed.

 

I have spoken to Ange who covers the system very well and she says that her and Dave (her partner) very rarely experience this type of behaviour from hire boaters. Yet here on the Shropshire Union Canal we get our fair share of clowns passing by. Given that around eleven thousand boats pass through our way every year I suppose the law of averages dictates that we are bound to experience a percentage of morons amongst that volume of traffic.

Napton Narrowboats have been know to go and bring back a boat following complaints of bad behavior.

 

I can well believe that. They and Andersen Hire Boats are choosey when it comes to their clients. Others, sadly though are not!

[Doorman]

My dealings with the Police have almost all been to do with my work premises and my opinion is that its not worth the bother calling them.Add to this the only time they became involved i ended up with a grudge being held against me that i had to deal with personally and id suggest its best to try to put things like this behind you.

 

Ian.

 

I have nothing against the police and fear that without them civil disorder would become intolerable. But, when I was in the drinks retail business (off-licenses to you and me) and needed police assistance either during or after a break-in, they were slow to respond.

 

Conversely, if i had fallen foul to the entrapment tactics that were often employed to trick my staff into serving under age drinkers, they would have been there like a shot. That's why we pioneered the 'over 21 rule' in our shops as it's far easier to determine someone under that age than those bordering on 18.

 

Charges for what? Rabbits are always in season. Bet no one will exactly recall (under oath) where they saw you fire.

 

A father of ten was recently shot by us, mistaken as a rabbit!

Not a coward my friend but a good and kindly soul who isn't equipped for physical violence, the same as my husband.

 

Tis right and prudent to take the safe option in these cases.

 

Come on Ange!

 

I've seen Dave in a rage when Molin forgot to get the round in. Chrissie even feigned a faint to avert bloodshed. Well, at least that was her explanation when she sobered up.

[deckhand]

Charges for what? Rabbits are always in season. Bet no one will exactly recall (under oath) where they saw you fire.

If you want to run the risk of losing your licence, for the sake of some idiots. I certainly wouldn't, and what if your shot did actually hit someone.? That's your life ruined and theirs. I don't think that getting your shotgun out for anything other than what your licence intended it for is the at all the right thing to do or suggest. And, if one of those people that you were waving your gun at had a camera phone on you, it is all there on film for the courts to see.

[Bobbin]

Here in Lancashire we have a Canal Watch System in place. We get updates from the police of any trouble via our mobile phones and Email. We also have a direct line number to contact and report to the Police any problems. It is up to boaters to apply to join.

 

Being threatened with bodily harm is a serious matter and should be reported. I don't know if any other police forces are doing this, but it is worth considering.

[Chris Pink]

If you want to run the risk of losing your licence, for the sake of some idiots. I certainly wouldn't, and what if your shot did actually hit someone.? That's your life ruined and theirs. I don't think that getting your shotgun out for anything other than what your licence intended it for is the at all the right thing to do or suggest. And, if one of those people that you were waving your gun at had a camera phone on you, it is all there on film for the courts to see.

 

he's not waving his shotgun around, he's waving his willie around.

[deckhand]

he's not waving his shotgun around, he's waving his willie around.

Yes, well there is a charge for that too that could land him in trouble

[ditchcrawler]

 

Charges for what? Rabbits are always in season. Bet no one will exactly recall (under oath) where they saw you fire.

I worked with a chap who did time for discharging a fire arm to frighten some seriously nasty people

[Guest]

To produce a firearm at a time such as that is sheer stupidity. One time we doubled up in a Wigan lock when a few local youth appeared (doing no harm BTW.) Next thing I know, knobhead on the other boat produced a gun/rifle of some sort (I know little about guns). Luckily the kids just went away. I knew this guy off the moorings and made sure my boat was never within a country mile of his again. Talk about a tosser. What infuriated me was that he had incriminated us.