Foxton Inclined Plane - What do you think?

[Kwacker]

I spend a lot of my spare time at Foxton Locks ... because I love it there.

Seeing the partially restored site of the old Inclined Plane, and knowing the aims of the FIP Trust, I was interested to know how forum members felt about it.

Should it be maintained as it is?

Should the millions of £s be raised to restore it to be fully working and historically accurate?

Would you use it, and how much would you pay to do so?

 

I am genuinely keen to know any opinion for or against.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

My own view is that in these cash strapped times, it doesn't matter much what I think, because it will never happen.

 

Lots of examples of this exist, (Bedford to Milton Keynes Waterway, Daventry Branch....)

 

But then in the early 1970s if you had suggested to me that the K&A would ever open throughout, I would probably have said something similar.

 

If they do rebuild the Foxton inclined plane, please PLEASE, PLEASE can we not then follow it up by anything that allows anything over 7 foot beam through at the Watford locks! One of the enduring best features of our canal system is that wide-beams can't get between North and South, and nothing must ever alter this!

:tongue_in_cheek_smiley:

[Kwacker]

Personally, and selfishly, I'd hate to see widebeams .... or increased traffic on the top section between Foxton & Watford.

[jim and pat dalton]

To answer your questions:

Maybe

 

Yes (always worth trying)

Yes and £10

Edited May 24, 2013 by jim and pat dalton

[Tuscan]

Its a good question. I think the problem would probably be that it is a heritage site they would only be allowed to do it I assume by properly replicating the lift, traditional materials etc etc. As Alan says it ain't going to happen on cost grounds.

 

I would also be against it on safety grounds the locks are already very crowded , and gongoozler fell in the other week i hear fortunately the lock as full. Soon we will be fenced in when going up the flight if the H&S brigade get in.

 

Hope it stays narrow it's so shallow on the top that passing in some areas is very difficult.

[alan_fincher]

Personally, and selfishly, I'd hate to see widebeams .... or increased traffic on the top section between Foxton & Watford.

I think many would, and there are major problems with just having bridges and locks that will pass them, without general widening of a canal to suit.

 

The Grand Union Canal Company discovered this in the 1930s when they widened the Birmingham main line.

 

Increasingly large numbers of wide-beams are appearing on "broad" canals but which historically only ever hosted narrow boats, and it is not always a total success.

 

Of course on that summit there are two major tunnels to consider too. What currently happens further North at Saddington? Do wide beams ever pass it, and if so what arrangements are used to stop boats entering from the other end?

[Paul C]

My own view is that in these cash strapped times, it doesn't matter much what I think, because it will never happen.

 

Lots of examples of this exist, (Bedford to Milton Keynes Waterway, Daventry Branch....)

 

But then in the early 1970s if you had suggested to me that the K&A would ever open throughout, I would probably have said something similar.

 

If they do rebuild the Foxton inclined plane, please PLEASE, PLEASE can we not then follow it up by anything that allows anything over 7 foot beam through at the Watford locks! One of the enduring best features of our canal system is that wide-beams can't get between North and South, and nothing must ever alter this!

:tongue_in_cheek_smiley:

 

Never say never.....the Anderton lift was resored to fully working operation. I shudder to think how much it actually costs to traverse it, I did some rough back-of-the envelope sums once and it was something like £2000 per use.

[Tuscan]

With the marinas at Crick and Yelvetoft and the new 200+ one to be built at Kilworth some of us in the area are beginning to wonder whether the tranquility of the top section is soon to impacted by to many boats. Foxton so we are told is a hotspot now , although the Leicester top is not plagued with overstayers although there is one boat that has been on a bend by a bridge for several years that has straightened us up a few times.

[Guest]

My thoughts are that it is a pipe dream that will never ever happen.

 

There is after all a perfectly adequate way to get through Foxton currently in place, it might be a bit more of a priority if the Foxton flight didn't exist.

[Kwacker]

I think many would, and there are major problems with just having bridges and locks that will pass them, without general widening of a canal to suit.

 

The Grand Union Canal Company discovered this in the 1930s when they widened the Birmingham main line.

 

Increasingly large numbers of wide-beams are appearing on "broad" canals but which historically only ever hosted narrow boats, and it is not always a total success.

 

Of course on that summit there are two major tunnels to consider too. What currently happens further North at Saddington? Do wide beams ever pass it, and if so what arrangements are used to stop boats entering from the other end?

 

What if the Lift was rebuilt purely as a static engineering monument?

[magpie patrick]

I looked at this 13 years ago, some of the work that has been done was a result of the report that I co-authored with colleagues. The price tag then was about £8 million, so we would be looking at £12 million now or thereabouts if there are no other complicating factors.

 

There was support for, and concern against, allowing the use of the summit by wide beam boats then. The problem isn't the individual wide beam, it's too many of them on a canal not really suited. Since 2000, there has been a trend towards pushing the limits on widebeams, hence the occasional questions on here about how big can a boat be for such and such a waterway.

 

Because the existing plane is a scheduled ancient monument we looked at a number of options, including a new plane next to the existing site, and only restoring one of the two tracks. In the end we settled for a two-tank plane on the old site, but with three sets of rails placed between the original four sets, on in each gap.

 

Modern technology means an industrial three-phase 415 volt winch could pull one tank up without counterbalance, although we suggested counterbalancing should be the normal operating mode. We also looked to reduce the number of pulley wheels, as cable fatigue is much better understood than it was in 1900.

[sueb]

We don't rebuild derelict castles so why restore the plane?

[Kwacker]

We don't rebuild derelict castles so why restore the plane?

There are lots of old castles still in existence, but the lift was the only one of it's type built.

It wasn't commercially succesful then, and I don't think a working replica would be now, but a static replica would make a very fitting monument to Victorian Engineering.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Kwacker

[alan_fincher]

We don't rebuild derelict castles so why restore the plane?

By that argument could you not say "We don't rebuild derelict castles so why restore any disused canal"?

 

OK, I know it is different, because an alternate route for boats already exists at Foxton.

 

Personally I can't be convinced that building some kind of replica plane at Foxton is good value, (and something using 415 volt electric motors hardly replicates a steam driven original!), but wouldn't it be a sad world if nobody ever attempted to recreate some of our engineering masterpieces that have been lost with time.

 

However this thing was a white elephant when first built, never commercially viable, which is why it had such a very short life, and I struggle to see this as something that should have many millions spent on it rather than some other more "practical" waterways project(s).

[Proper Job]

 

 

There are lots of old castles still in existence, but the lift was the only one of it's type built.

It wasn't commercially succesful then, and I don't think a working replica would be now, but a static replica would make a very fitting monument to Victorian Engineering.

 

But wouldn't that be to failed Victorian Engineerg?

 

If you did rebuild it, surely it would still be commecially uneconomic. How would you cover the operating/maintenance costs........... doomed to become derelic again? or another money pit

 

I'm sure the £12M that MP estimates could be better spent elsewhere on the system.

[Mac of Cygnet]

We don't rebuild derelict castles so why restore the plane?

 

But we do: http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/heritage/scottishcastleinitiative/castleconservationregister.htm A list of castles considered suitable for restoration. Quite a few have already been restored - I watched the progress of one in Aberdeenshire, a very fine job.

[Kwacker]

Thanks for the excellent input so far, the more the merrier.

 

But wouldn't that be to failed Victorian Engineerg?

 

If you did rebuild it, surely it would still be commecially uneconomic. How would you cover the operating/maintenance costs........... doomed to become derelic again? or another money pit

 

I'm sure the £12M that MP estimates could be better spent elsewhere on the system.

 

Excellent point .... a bit like a Titanic replica as a monument to successful iceberg avoidance

Edited May 24, 2013 by Kwacker

[johnmck]

With the marinas at Crick and Yelvetoft and the new 200+ one to be built at Kilworth some of us in the area are beginning to wonder whether the tranquility of the top section is soon to impacted by to many boats. Foxton so we are told is a hotspot now , although the Leicester top is not plagued with overstayers although there is one boat that has been on a bend by a bridge for several years that has straightened us up a few times.

 

Is that the boat that used to display a sign with "generator running day and night" or words to that affect?

[Derek R.]

Anderton lift was the only connection to and from the Weaver to the Trent & Mersey Canal, and as well as being the first of its kind in the World, I think justifies the cost though some will disagree.

 

The Foxton Inclined Plane is not the only connection from top to bottom, and so the value of access is directly affected. How many would wait in a queue to use the locks instead of paying a fee to use the Plane? It's a big outlay for a fragile return. The boat scales at Stoke top are never used but do show what was in use at one time, but they have not been 'reconstructed' from raw materials - they're the real deal. Which makes a non-working replica Plane a bit of a White Elephant - even if it would be at lower cost to a working one.

 

The bottom line must be who pays for its ongoing maintenance and a keeper to oversee operations. A large sum of money to get something built might be an obstacle that could be overcome by raffles, rallies and donations. But to maintain for years to come when it might see little actual traffic other than those wanting to say they'd been on it - and possibly only once?

 

Best left a green sward and the plaques and information boards such as exist.

[GoodGurl]

i would much rather see old canals restored so we can explore more of the system,that would be money well spent if you ask me.

[Pluto]

 

 

There are lots of old castles still in existence, but the lift was the only one of it's type built.

It wasn't commercially succesful then, and I don't think a working replica would be now, but a static replica would make a very fitting monument to Victorian Engineering.

There were a good variety of different types of incline in this country, such as the early ones around Ironbridge. Subsequently, the one illustrated below was built on the Monkland Canal, and had a longitudinal, rather than transverse, caisson.

If you want to see a transverse caissoned incline, you need to go to Arzvillers in France.

[Paul C]

i would much rather see old canals restored so we can explore more of the system,that would be money well spent if you ask me.

 

x2, basically.

[Tuscan]

The idea of a static display of two tanks at the top and bottom is a very good one. They can be made to suit the period.

[Kwacker]

The idea of a static display of two tanks at the top and bottom is a very good one. They can be made to suit the period.

 

But how could they possibly replicate the rivets ?

[GUMPY]

i would much rather see old canals restored so we can explore more of the system,that would be money well spent if you ask me.

That still has the same problem no money to keep them maintained.

Efforts should be concentrated on keeping the system we have not adding to it.