wide beams

[magnetman]

I live on a wide barge,after 12 years living on narrow boats.

 

I beg to differ regarding the grand union.

 

it has never been completely modernised to take 2 way wide vessel traffic beyond Berkhamsted.

 

if one person has a wide boat others will want them too

 

GU locks were built for pairs of narrow boats

[mrsmelly]

I live on a wide barge,after 12 years living on narrow boats.

 

I beg to differ regarding the grand union.

 

it has never been completely modernised to take 2 way wide vessel traffic beyond Berkhamsted.

 

if one person has a wide boat others will want them too

 

GU locks were built for pairs of narrow boats

Oops

Still think the boating expert needs to put up or shut up just think how well some boating charity will do with HIS thousand pounds.

 

Tim

[Tuscan]

I live on a wide barge,after 12 years living on narrow boats.

I beg to differ regarding the grand union.

it has never been completely modernised to take 2 way wide vessel traffic beyond Berkhamsted.

if one person has a wide boat others will want them too GU locks were built for pairs of narrow boats

Agree with you , although I expect our fat boat expert is going to tell us he has a fat butty on a long line next. Live and let live I say there should be room for all and dredging to enable all to pass. With the increase in popularity I'm sure there will be a bright spark at CRT calculating new license fees based on length and width after all it's all about the cash according to sum.

[frangar]

 

I think you will find that the reason the locks are wide is to accomodate widebeam boats, not specificaly two sewer tubes side by side. I lived on a sewer tube for 22 years but now have a widebeam, I think i have forgotten more about boat handling both wide and narrow beam boats than you will ever learn, we keep a little sewer tube in the toilets on my boat I drive daily at work for kids to play in.

I have an idea that would be good for charity, why dont you the fantastic sewer tube boat handling expert and I have a boat handling competition to include a demo on each others boat to include of course knowledge of the inland waterways system? we could have a totaly independant team of judges known to neither of us and the loser would give a grand to a nominated charity. Im ready with my money when do you want the competition? I am day off this thursday if thats any good.

 

Tim

My we are arrogant aren't we!

 

Just to let you know I have a MCA boat masters too...have steered passenger boats...have lived on boats for 25 years...etc etc...so please don't judge me....if you want to wave your willie to show how clever you are then I'm very pleased for you.

 

Nothing I said was about how well or not I could steer a boat but more to to with people with no experience of ever stepping on any floating object buying a wide beam to live on then expecting to take it everywhere just cos it fits through a lock.

 

As others have said the GU wasn't accepted as a wide beam waterway above Berko.....I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me (unlike you I'm not perfect ) will be along if I'm wrong but I understand that the wide beam boat Progress that was built as a trial craft at bushel bros in tring wasn't considered a success due to the fact it was realised that more dredging and widening would need to take place to enable two boats of the same size to pass each other. I also believe that wide locks were built for pairs of working boats first and foremost.

 

Wide beam boats are fine on the waterways that were built for them but don't expect to use them on ones that weren't and not have trouble.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Ex- Member]

I think you will find that the reason the locks are wide is to accomodate widebeam boats, not specificaly two sewer tubes side by side. I lived on a sewer tube for 22 years but now have a widebeam, I think i have forgotten more about boat handling both wide and narrow beam boats than you will ever learn, we keep a little sewer tube in the toilets on my boat I drive daily at work for kids to play in.

I have an idea that would be good for charity, why dont you the fantastic sewer tube boat handling expert and I have a boat handling competition to include a demo on each others boat to include of course knowledge of the inland waterways system? we could have a totaly independant team of judges known to neither of us and the loser would give a grand to a nominated charity. Im ready with my money when do you want the competition? I am day off this thursday if thats any good.

 

Tim

 

Just for the term sewer tube is deserving of the Greenie I've awarded you, I've never heard that expression before, love it

 

A second Greenie would been awarded for the overall sentiments contained in said post.

 

I ran out though

[mrsmelly]

My we are arrogant aren't we!

 

Just to let you know I have a MCA boat masters too...have steered passenger boats...have lived on boats for 25 years...etc etc...so please don't judge me....if you want to wave your willie to show how clever you are then I'm very pleased for you.

 

Nothing I said was about how well or not I could steer a boat but more to to with people with no experience of ever stepping on any floating object buying a wide beam to live on then expecting to take it everywhere just cos it fits through a lock.

 

As others have said the GU wasn't accepted as a wide beam waterway above Berko.....I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me (unlike you I'm not perfect ) will be along if I'm wrong but I understand that the wide beam boat Progress that was built as a trial craft at bushel bros in tring wasn't considered a success due to the fact it was realised that more dredging and widening would need to take place to enable two boats of the same size to pass each other. I also believe that wide locks were built for pairs of working boats first and foremost.

 

Wide beam boats are fine on the waterways that were built for them but don't expect to use them on ones that weren't and not have trouble.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Very long winded,,,,,,,,,,are you available thursday then?

 

Tim

[frangar]

Very long winded,,,,,,,,,,are you available thursday then?

 

Tim

Afraid not!....doing the work thing.....but I'm sure as you are the expert in all things that float I wouldn't have stood a chance anyhow..........

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[ditchcrawler]

Agree with you , although I expect our fat boat expert is going to tell us he has a fat butty on a long line next. Live and let live I say there should be room for all and dredging to enable all to pass. With the increase in popularity I'm sure there will be a bright spark at CRT calculating new license fees based on length and width after all it's all about the cash according to sum.

That will come as part of the harmonization when the EA navigation goes to CaRT

[mrsmelly]

Afraid not!....doing the work thing.....but I'm sure as you are the expert in all things that float I wouldn't have stood a chance anyhow..........

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Ok enough anyway. lifes too short to argue aint it. Just got up my nose with the silly widebeam knocking after all there are many thousands of boat types in this world and by far the minority are british narrowboats as no other country has been daft enough to build an extensive system with 7ft wide locks. i loved my narrowboat days and if I ever want to go extensive uk inland cruising again then I will just buy another but believe me widebeams are immeasurably better to live on and handle in a far more stable manner on fast flowing rivers than narrowboats do so suited for my present lifestyle.

Not everyone who owns narrowboats is any better than anyone with a widebeam at boat handling, blimey aint that true?

 

Tim

[blackrose]

As others have said they should book a passage at braunston, however given that some owners seem to have difficultly with steering and operating their boats in general I do wonder if they know you have to book...I don't reckon it will be too long before one causes mayhem in a tunnel....mind you if they meet me I know who's going to reverse!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

(I'm not keen on floating flats...!!)

 

 

I think in terms of absolute numbers there are many more owners of narrow boats who don't know how to steer them.

 

(The pilot who just took my widebeam up the Bristol channel said the same thing as you, but when we got to Sharpness he'd changed his mind and told me it was a good boat.)

Edited May 14, 2013 by blackrose

[Naughty Cal]

Just for the term sewer tube is deserving of the Greenie I've awarded you, I've never heard that expression before, love it

 

A second Greenie would been awarded for the overall sentiments contained in said post.

 

I ran out though

Where have you been living. Under a rock?

 

Sewer tube is the only term we use for a sewer tube

[Guest]

I think in terms of absolute numbers there are many more owners of narrow boats who don't know how to steer them.

 

(The pilot who just took my widebeam up the Bristol channel said the same thing as you, but when we got to Sharpness he'd changed his mind and told me it was a good boat.)

 

There is no logical reason why a wide beam would handle 'less well' than a NB anyway is there? - after all they are just a 'fatter' version of the same shape, assuming the rudder/prop is adequately sized I can't think of any reason why they would be 'inferior' -

 

Unless someone knows different,

[NBnutter]

zah ha!! so after much amusement reading all the names you lot call widebeams, I think I finally have my answer....

 

 

widebeams need to book to go through

 

there is someone at the other end stopping boats from going in

 

having a narrowboat is best!

[carlt]

Given the increase in wide beams over the last few years and the decrease of common sense I'm guessing the odds are getting less and less.....

 

 

I don't see any decrease in common sense at all.

 

People have been doing stupid things since they started doing things but, over the last few years information has become more readily available so there is less excuse, or likelihood, that people don't know the tunnel arrangements.

 

widebeams need to book to go through

 

there is someone at the other end stopping boats from going in

 

having a narrowboat is best!

I have taken wide boats through tunnels often and never booked passage..

 

Having a narrowboat is certainly best if you wish to use the narrow canals but having a real boat capable of much more would restrict you to, mainly, broad beam boats.

 

There are so many more types of boat than the flatbottomed barge type boat (both narrow and broad) available I think it's a shame people restrict themselves to these when deciding on a boat for them.

[blackrose]

There is no logical reason why a wide beam would handle 'less well' than a NB anyway is there? - after all they are just a 'fatter' version of the same shape, assuming the rudder/prop is adequately sized I can't think of any reason why they would be 'inferior' -

 

Unless someone knows different,

 

If a widebeam is simply based on the design of a narrowboat and broadened across its beam without any thought for increasing its stiffness then the end result will be a weaker boat. Most narrowboats have no frames on the baseplate running fore-aft and instead rely on the hull sides for longitudinal stiffness, but once you take that design and widen it significantly the boat should have some frames running the entire length of the boat.

 

A weaker structure will be fine on a canal or other still water, but once you encounter some waves it will flex and this was what my pilot was talking about.

 

My widebeam has 2 sets of longitudinal frames about a 3rd of the way in from each side, running the entire length of the baseplate. Unfortunately the large uxter plates on my boat are only 6mm thick and don't have any additional stiffeners so you can hear them flexing in the waves. Since the engine hole is uninsulated and unlined It should be simple enough to get some 2 or 3" angle iron stitch welded onto these areas to provide some support.

 

zah ha!! so after much amusement reading all the names you lot call widebeams, I think I finally have my answer....

 

 

widebeams need to book to go through

 

there is someone at the other end stopping boats from going in

 

having a narrowboat is best!

 

Which part of this thread did you miss? Widebeams only need to book through tunnels which you can't see out the other end.

 

As for which boat is "best" you obviously don't have enough experience to realise that all boats are a compromise. A narrowboat may be best for you, but having lived on a narrowboat for several years I know it wasn't best for me.

 

Anyway, judging by the number of narrowboaters who've looked around inside my boat and then emerged either speechless, full of praise for the amount of space, or jusy bitter with envy, I'd say a narrow boat wasn't necessarily best for them either.

Edited May 14, 2013 by blackrose

[carlt]

There is no logical reason why a wide beam would handle 'less well' than a NB anyway is there?

None whatsoever.

 

My current widebeam boat is far more manoeuvrable than any narrowboat I've steered, likewise my lifeboat before.

 

Narrowboats, like any barge type vessel, are fine in a straight line, in a trough designed to stop them going anywhere but turning hard against the tide with a stiff crosswind would, I imagine, put them in some difficulty.

 

"Mine is better than yours" arguments are somewhat irrelevant when comparing two boats that both have similar hydrodynamics to a skip.

[NBnutter]

If a widebeam is simply based on the design of a narrowboat and broadened across its beam without any thought for increasing its stiffness then the end result will be a weaker boat. Most narrowboats have no frames on the baseplate running fore-aft and instead rely on the hull sides for longitudinal stiffness, but once you take that design and widen it significantly the boat should have some frames running the entire length of the boat.

 

A weaker structure will be fine on a canal or other still water, but once you encounter some waves it will flex and this was what my pilot was talking about.

 

My widebeam has 2 sets of longitudinal frames about a 3rd of the way in from each side, running the entire length of the baseplate. Unfortunately the large uxter plates on my boat are only 6mm thick and don't have any additional stiffeners so you can hear them flexing in the waves. Since the engine hole is uninsulated and unlined It should be simple enough to get some 2 or 3" angle iron stitch welded onto these areas to provide some support.

 

 

Which part of this thread did you miss? Widebeams only need to book through tunnels which you can't see out the other end.

 

As for which boat is "best" you obviously don't have enough experience to realise that all boats are a compromise. A narrowboat may be best for you, but having lived on a narrowboat for several years I know it wasn't best for me.

 

Anyway, judging by the number of narrowboaters who've looked around inside my boat and then emerged either speechless, full of praise for the amount of space, or jusy bitter with envy, I'd say a narrow boat wasn't necessarily best for them either.

I did not miss any thread!

 

I now know that widebeams have to book to go through tunnels that as you say you cants see the other end of..which in my case I was asking about Braunston...

 

I have experience but for me personally as it was my question asked, the narrowboat is best, canals weren't built for wide barges but narrowboats pulling buttys....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

 

if you dont want to have a boat that encompeses the origins then that is fine, I dont want space, if I wanted space I would have not have embarked onto leaving my nice spacious house!

[Grace and Favour]

I did not miss any thread!

 

I now know that widebeams have to book to go through tunnels that as you say you cants see the other end of..which in my case I was asking about Braunston...

 

I have experience but for me personally as it was my question asked, the narrowboat is best,canals weren't built for wide barges but narrowboats pulling buttys....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

 

if you dont want to have a boat that encompeses the origins then that is fine, I dont want space, if I wanted space I would have not have embarked onto leaving my nice spacious house!

I'm not sure if you initially set out to prove your ignorance, or whether you've merely gone out of your way to prove it since

 

There are many, many miles of canals built to take seriously big boats - and still do.

 

Maybe you should read an history book on the origins of canals!

[carlt]

.....canals weren't built for wide barges but narrowboats pulling buttys....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

Actually the majority of wide canals were built for wide barges, Keels, Short Boats, Trows, Lighters, Wherries, etc.

 

It is sometimes the case that we get a bit hung up on the Grand Union but it is an exception, not the rule.

[saltysplash]

I have experience but for me personally as it was my question asked, the narrowboat is best, canals weren't built for wide barges but narrowboats pulling buttys....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

or maybe even horses pulling narrowboats, or even horses pulling wide boats or even teams of men pulling wide boats or even the flow of a waterway taking boats along on the stream....as you say, History and the origins of Canals, or do you just mean the Origins of the Grand Onion

[Naughty Cal]

I did not miss any thread!

 

I now know that widebeams have to book to go through tunnels that as you say you cants see the other end of..which in my case I was asking about Braunston...

 

I have experience but for me personally as it was my question asked, the narrowboat is best, canals weren't built for wide barges but narrowboats pulling buttys....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

 

if you dont want to have a boat that encompeses the origins then that is fine, I dont want space, if I wanted space I would have not have embarked onto leaving my nice spacious house!

The Fossdyke canal is widely reputed to be the oldest in the country.

 

Look at This

 

 

(Picture from Lincs Echo)

 

Not a narrowboat in sight

[Guest]

....maybe you have never read a history book on the origins of canals!

 

I can heartily recommend this one -

 

 

Extremely informative, you may like to read it.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canals-Calder-Navigation-Transport-Through/dp/1903425379

[Naughty Cal]

Oo that looks interesting. Might have to grab a copy of that.

[Guest]

Oo that looks interesting. Might have to grab a copy of that.

 

If you look at the link I posted there is a seller (Awesome Books) selling a 'good' copy for just a penny plus a couple of quid P&P - I've used that seller a few times before and got similar bargains.

 

the book itself is indeed very interesting.

[NBnutter]

oh you wide beam ppl are so touchy!! I actually have nothing against widebeams, they are great boats. I just prefer the narrowboats x

 

oh and yes will but that book as will add to the many I already have x