CaRT and IWA have changed my attitude to volunteering on waterways.

[kris88]

I think some people just hear what they want to hear and then put their own interpretation on it. The change in contract was the introduction of annualised hours that was negotiated with the Unions and voted on by the members. With regard to volunteers once again CRT have assured the staff via the Union that there will be no redundancies as a result of volunteering and the Union have accepted that. There is enough work to be done by all staff and volunteers for the next hundred years.

as for me Im hearing what I've been told by staff that are directly effected by it,so they should know

Horses mouth and all that

Regards kris

Ps I'd be a volunteer lengthsman 30hrs a week,if I could moor there and get my liscense.unfortunately at the moment I have to go to work to pay my license and keep moving so makes it difficult to volunteer

Edited April 25, 2013 by kris88

[Ray]

We passed through Foxton Locks a year or so ago. There were two lock keepers on duty, one paid the other a volunteer. The paid lockie highlighted to us the fact that the volunteer was able to and did disappear (i.e. go home) when he decided he'd had enough for the day. How do you maintain lock opening hours where volunteers are replacing paid lock keepers and the volunteers would seem to effectively be free to come and go as they please? This is a question and not meant to start a debate about the replacement of paid staff by volunteers.

 

On the subject of reducing staff numbers one has to consider what is loosely termed natural wastage. There may be fewer staff than there were X number of years ago. However, that reduction could simply have been achieved by not replacing staff when they leave. There's no need to make anyone redundant if there is no rush to reduce employee numbers.

[Jerra]

With regard to reducing staff number surely CRT needs to have been running long enough to compare its record with BW

 

I know somebody will tell me the "top" people haven't changed but the status of the organisation has and this must have an effect on how it operates - for better or worse.

[Caprifool]

A lovely day on a 48 hours at Norbury I saw something amusing and quite enlightening. The grass on the towpath was 1,5". Four men arrived, all in new safety kit from top to toe. First came strimmer number one, all shiny and new. Then a huge lawnmower, over dimentioned for the job and set about 3" higher than the grass. Then strimmer number two did the same grass as strimmer number one and the mower. Then came a man looking very important, busy doing nothing. They left the grass still 1,5" and the litter untouched. I think there's a lesson in there somewhere.

[Chris Pink]

Yes. It's called 'dishonesty' and 'corruption'.

 

I think there's a lesson in there somewhere.

 

I am getting well pissed off with people I know being pilloried for not using the canal system how CRT think they should and yet all the time you see wasteful and dishonest practice such as this. If they put half the goodwill into serving their customers as they do into their cosy contracts there would be far fewer problems.

[alan_fincher]

Oh, and on the subject of volunteers, I have now covered on both Old Friends and several other boats quite a large area so far this year, and have still yet to see a volunteer locky?

 

Well I can offer you the fact that we had no less than THREE at Stoke Hammond "Three Locks" when we locked up through there a couple of weeks ago.

 

I suspect THREE might also have been about the number of boats they saw come through all day!

[matty40s]

Well I can offer you the fact that we had no less than THREE at Stoke Hammond "Three Locks" when we locked up through there a couple of weeks ago.

 

I suspect THREE might also have been about the number of boats they saw come through all day!

Since Jan ,I have been through Fradley 4 times, up Atherstone 3 times, through Brum via Fazeley/GU/Knowle, and both the Autherley and Hawkesbury flights as well!! Plus all the other locks in between and up to Gnossal from a start in Loughborough via Nottingham.

 

The grounds maintenance work is serious overkill, I saw similar large gangs at Barton in Jan, Atherstone last week, Stafford at Easter . The seem to do just 3 or 4 bridges and then go back to the van.

[cotswoldsman]

 

John you are naive if you believe this. The staff have been disappearing for years. Ask any cart worker how many worked there 5 years ago and how many are working now.

Sue there comes a time when you have to stop looking back and either look forward or maybe even in the present. Harping on about what has happened in the past does not move anything forward. Yes things are not great and plenty needs to change both from boaters and CRT lets try and work on that and leave the past in the past.

[comfortably numb]

Since Jan ,I have been through Fradley 4 times, up Atherstone 3 times, through Brum via Fazeley/GU/Knowle, and both the Autherley and Hawkesbury flights as well!! Plus all the other locks in between and up to Gnossal from a start in Loughborough via Nottingham.

 

The grounds maintenance work is serious overkill, I saw similar large gangs at Barton in Jan, Atherstone last week, Stafford at Easter . The seem to do just 3 or 4 bridges and then go back to the van.

The Towpath works between the Atherstone Locks 6 & 7 have been going on for ages. The staff seem to be working at a snails pace and generally disinterested or de-motivated. Perhaps it's a morale issue because of the effects of their changes in employment from BW to CRT.

[matty40s]

Not sure, but it is a long way off completion yet, I came through this week.

I am amazed that they started this so late, after the lock closures had finished. It is impossible to not use the section they are working on to land if there are boats coming up 7 as you are coming down 6.

[jelunga]

We passed through Foxton Locks a year or so ago. There were two lock keepers on duty, one paid the other a volunteer. The paid lockie highlighted to us the fact that the volunteer was able to and did disappear (i.e. go home) when he decided he'd had enough for the day. How do you maintain lock opening hours where volunteers are replacing paid lock keepers and the volunteers would seem to effectively be free to come and go as they please? This is a question and not meant to start a debate about the replacement of paid staff by volunteers.

 

On the subject of reducing staff numbers one has to consider what is loosely termed natural wastage. There may be fewer staff than there were X number of years ago. However, that reduction could simply have been achieved by not replacing staff when they leave. There's no need to make anyone redundant if there is no rush to reduce employee numbers.

Then the wrong sort of volunteers are being used. As a volunteer I agree to do a shift at a lock. I choose when, and I give a preference of which lock. But I am committed to the full shift of 0930 to 1730. I would not think of going home part way through a shift without permission from my supervisor. Edited April 25, 2013 by jelunga

[churchward]

Then the wrong sort of volunteers are being used. As a volunteer I agree to do a shift at a lock. I choose when, and I give a preference of which lock. But I am committed to the full shift of 0930 to 1730. I would not think of going home part way through a shift without permission from my supervisor.

Quite right.

 

I am often bemused by the awful attitude to volenteers on this forum as if they were some kind of low order of being incapable of skill or commitment. This is in my experience far from the truth. There is no reason why a volenteer will not have as much commitment or indeed skill as a paid member of staff.

 

As a Volenteer in an operational role (signalman) on a Heritage railway I have to commit to an amount of time volenteering and a complete shift. We are also qualified to National Network Heritage standards. I am re tested on the signalling rules every 2 years (it takes 3 hours or so) and medical tests every 5 years.

[jelunga]

Quite right.

 

I am often bemused by the awful attitude to volenteers on this forum as if they were some kind of low order of being incapable of skill or commitment. This is in my experience far from the truth. There is no reason why a volenteer will not have as much commitment or indeed skill as a paid member of staff.

 

As a Volenteer in an operational role (signalman) on a Heritage railway I have to commit to an amount of time volenteering and a complete shift. We are also qualified to National Network Heritage standards. I am re tested on the signalling rules every 2 years (it takes 3 hours or so) and medical tests every 5 years.

In which case if you are SR

Ding

(Ding)

Ding ding ding - ding

[churchward]

In which case if you are SR

Ding

(Ding)

Ding ding ding - ding

Ding ding ding - ding (or 3-1 bell code)

 

ordinary passenger train accepted under rule LLR 3.4 (normal acceptance of trains)

 

We are not SR but more akin to BR (Western Region) being Llangollen Railway. However, by that time signalling rules were more or less homogenised. Some of the BR(W) style is an echo of the GWR practice but it is not the same.

Edited April 26, 2013 by churchward

[madcat]

I have yet to encounter any volunteers other than people I already know on CCT work parties. There has been some good work done by CaRt staff on the arm down to Hawne Basin with part of the work being done by the CCT team. I've been out of action due to the bad shoulder so I wasn't involved.

I'm in favour of volunteer work but I don't think volunteers can replace paid staff or indeed should do so but can make a big difference to the canal environment. It was volunteers that banded together to save the a lot of the network when the government wanted rid

 

Contractors are a whole other problem,managing them to get value for money can be a problem.

I'm in favour of keeping towpath vegetation trimmed enough to see any hazards but its not a bowling green and I'm sure in some cases it's OTT

CaRT gets some things right, thanks for fixing Netherton Tunnel

[comfortably numb]

Not sure, but it is a long way off completion yet, I came through this week.

I am amazed that they started this so late, after the lock closures had finished. It is impossible to not use the section they are working on to land if there are boats coming up 7 as you are coming down 6.

 

They started the towpath work before the lock closures had finished Matty. I'm not sure when it was but work was well underway when I first arrived at Baddesley in late January.

 

They re-opened the towpath yesterday so boaters can now walk between lock 6 & 7 but they've still much to do so the bank is still unusable.

[Tuscan]

 

Well I can offer you the fact that we had no less than THREE at Stoke Hammond "Three Locks" when we locked up through there a couple of weeks ago.

 

I suspect THREE might also have been about the number of boats they saw come through all day!

That was the same for us last year, when I asked I was told it was where they did their training which is fair enough

[Midnight Rider]

Walking at Fradley today, no boats on the move & two volunteer lockies kicking their heels. One is at the second lock up, looking like a ship's captain with his bins, looking for approaching boats.

 

Aha --- one is coming up from Alrewas direction. By the time he gets to the first lock, the lockie has disappeared, leaving his lock full. I later find him in the cafe tucking into his bacon bap. Seems that his training has not been wasted ---- always get away for your break on time. He could at least have set the lock before he went.

[Doorman]

We have a good friend who is an ex-BW lockkeeper and the extent of his local knowledge is extremely valuable. I doubt that however long a volunteer has on one particular patch he or she would struggle to compete with a full time employee. The days of full time lockkeepers and lengthsmen are now numbered, especially here in the north and we should learn to accept that it will not revert back to the 'the good old days'. The volunteers here on the Shropshire Union Canal appear to be plentiful and more than willing to help maintain this stretch. Given time and a fair degree of commitment, we might just be reflecting in years to come how useful they have been. As John 'Cotswoldsman' says, look forward not back and not only embrace change, but be instrumental in effecting it. Given different personal circumstances, I would be joining the team of volunteers on the Montgomary Canal and pushing ahead there. Please don't always knock them, as they may become integral to the future of our precious waterway system one day.

[cotswoldsman]

Glad to see the volunteer is not only prepared to give up his time but support local business that is what I call dedication.

[cotswoldsman]

Double post

Edited April 27, 2013 by cotswoldsman

[twbm]

Just for a moment lets look at what we have got, compared to what might have been:

 

From a dispassionate, financially orientated viewpoint, the canals are the remains of an obsolete transport system that is way beyond the point of being viable to restore to being self financing. Typically if a business or occupation becomes obsolete it falls in to demise - note the lack of village blacksmiths and wheelwrights and the current trend for pubs to close.

 

Meanwhile the leisure values of the waterways for everyone except boaters could be maintained with footpaths running alongside strings of unconnected pools of water for fishing and wildlife, thus obviating the need to maintain the majority of the most expensive bits of the infrastructure. The government could have pulled the plug on all but the minimum finance required to administer palliative care and flood prevention as the system fell back into decay, but what it actually did was put in the hands of enthusiasts - put simply, CaRT being a charity means if you want to keep cruising, help support the system by giving money or time.

 

The governance may or may not be correct and there may be redundancies and changes but I suggest if those of us who expect to indulge our minority hobby / chosen lifestyle want to have a system to do it on in ten years time, we will need to get our hands dirty and learn to get by in the new regime.

 

 

 

Minor typo edit.

Edited April 27, 2013 by twbm

[Ian Mac]

Yes. It's called 'dishonesty' and 'corruption'.

 

 

I am getting well pissed off with people I know being pilloried for not using the canal system how CRT think they should and yet all the time you see wasteful and dishonest practice such as this. If they put half the goodwill into serving their customers as they do into their cosy contracts there would be far fewer problems.

A different view - the grass cutting contracts have just been let - you could have bided for one, they were on the public tender list, which given they are now a independent charity I'm semi surprised at, however part of the conditions are that the people undertaking the tasks must have been trained and watched the appropriate safety videos JObs for the H&S boys - another topic I believe. So given that Norbury is the sectioon office and logically is where this may well take place for the Shroppie and that the men were are wearing new stuff I would guess thats what may have been happening, so where is the 'dishonesty' and 'corruption'. in that?

 

As to the new policy that the unions and workers have signed up to, the lads I have talked to think that as long as the Management don't abuse it, then it should be OK the whole idea of it is to help us boaters have a better service by the lads who do the support having longer hrs during the summer when the demand is highest and the lads who fit and repair things, working more during the winter, and again a good idea.

What amazes me are the huge number of call outs that the support teams have to deal with, and the number of these that are either no shows and user errors. I would not be at all surprised if C&RT don't start charging for this service soon - for example the lads were called out to a boat because the pound was down and the said boat could not get through, when they got there, the pound was just off weir by about 6 inches and the boat was sat in the lock with the top gates open and a bottom paddle open a fraction, so even though there was a good feed on it was all flowing away. This wasn't a hire boat or someone new to the canals, but a live aboard - what chance do the maintenance lads stand, when people who should know better can't sort themselves out.

Another instance boater leaves his windlass and handcuff key behind at a lock, so now every night for the last month, well its seems like it, the local yobs have been out and drained the pound above the lock, because they can and they "hate boaters because they won't talk to us"

C&RT need our active help, especially now its ours, not people with biased opinions sitting in rocking chairs offering the doom and gloom view of the world.

[Bee]

twbm`s analysis is a bit on the bleak side but true as far as it goes, however the canal / leisure / tourist `industry` is a big employer and generates a whole stack of money, probably a lot more than the coal and steel industry does nowadays although as ever there are lies, damned lies and statistics. The snag is that it costs a lot to keep it all working, ideally the costs of the upkeep would be covered by the licences and profits of the users, nice n` easy, simples. Like the railways, another sprawling, ancient transport system the user pays an ever bigger share of the costs, wonderful, unfortunately I never use the train these days in GB `cos I can`t afford it and my boat is in France for lots of reasons but also because it costs less than here. In a nutshell the economy and market no longer work so volunteers are the only way, how long till we see volunteers doing `little jobs` on stations?, volunteers are in librarys, hospitals and many museum sites e.g Ironbridge, heritage railways etc. what we want is a huge redistribution of wealth, when do we want it? Yeah well, not this weekend please `cos I`m busy.............

[Mick and Maggie]

In the past I have joined work parties organised by CCT to improve our local canal.I have been the bod with the litter picker,I have fished rubbish out of the bridge holes and tackled unruly vegetation .These things I did because I care and because other users will benefit not just me. Recently i have become so disappointed and infuriated by CaRTs cavalier attitude to its customer base and the narrow views of a lot of the IWA hierarchy that I no longer feel willing to give up my time to these jobs.I will still support CCT and will do work around the basin but no longer out in CaRT territory. Volunteering relies on goodwill and mine has evaporated in the heat of exasperation.

 

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a system that allowed a volunteer to match their voluntary work to their abilities and motivational needs. I think that volunteering to support the canal infrastructure is a good way of getting some of the issues sorted. However, many people who have specialist skills to offer, are not necessarily going to be given the opportunity of using their personal skill set, which might be technical or administrative.

If you are used to working in the modern office working environment, most of the working day is consumed by responding to messages and requests. You are constantly reacting to what comes across your desk. You need to plan how you will do your work. By planning, you are deciding how your time should be allocated, and figuring a method for getting work done. The best workflows are highly personalized and keep us engaged. Planning Work helps you become more efficient. For this type of skills, CaRT will offer you - Menial tasks such as litter picking, wheeling a barrow, cutting bankside vegetation or a bit of windlass swinging.

Lets suppose that you have a good set of industrial electrical skills. Is there going to be work of that type or nature available that would utilise your set of skills. I don't think its going to happen either. So what would be available for you that will give some satisfaction from giving your time to voluntary work. For this type of skills, CaRT will offer you - Menial tasks such as litter picking, wheeling a barrow, cutting bankside vegetation or a bit of windlass swinging.

Litter picking, wheeling a barrow, cutting bankside vegetation or a bit of windlass swinging seems to be the only "voluntary work" that is available. The problem is going to be finding real and worthwhile tasks that keeps people interested and motivated. That involves a bit of either litter picking, wheeling a barrow, cutting bankside vegetation or a bit of windlass swinging occasionally. The whole purpose of work-type matching is to prevent giving the right person the wrong job. Skilled people tend to under-perform when the work they're asked to do isn't what they enjoy doing. Providing people with challenging work that fits their interests is the key.

Once someone volunteers and feels disenfranchised, which is what I think has happened with you. The individuals become a negative advert for CaRT who will pass on their experience to their friends and colleagues. Nothing travels faster than bad news.

What are the benefits of volunteering for young people?

They provide an opportunity to gain a feeling of what it would be like to work full time in a particular industry. Demonstrates to future employers that you have chosen to use your free time constructively and started making decisions about your career early on. Develops practical skills which could be critical in their future employment. Provides valuable experience of engaging in a recruitment process.

What are the benefits of volunteering for older people?

Older people, often freed from responsibilities of employment and raising families, are a huge resource. Volunteering, for older people is good for people’s mental and physical health. As a group, they do more than their fair share of volunteering and charitable giving. There is a need to address questions about the volunteers’ fears around exposure to legal liability. Older volunteers themselves benefit from knowing they are contributing, keeping their skills alive and building new social relationships.

I'm not sure that CaRT meets either criteria.