BBC 3 Counties Radio Coverage South East Visitor Moorings Consultation

[Tuscan]

Mike and Lindy Foster at Bridgewater Boats, Berkhamsted.

 

I guess they ceased trading at least 10 years ago, (but I could be out by quite a lot). Mike Foster has already been dead some years.

 

One of the ironies is that at least some of the CC-ers in the area who could possibly be called non-compliant own boats which were sold off by Bridgewater Boats when it closed down

 

It is possible that the proposals for Berkhamsted have been highly influenced by a certain well known local, (and former Mayor), who did once operate a hire boat business locally, but now lives in one of the biggest poshest houses that looks outfrom a grand balcony over one of the lengths where it is planned to introduce restrictions, (and where boats do not always currently adhere to even 14 day stays). But I could be wrong, so it would be unfair to name her, I think.

 

 

That's a name from the past had a couple of interesting evenings with Mike that I can only just remember as they always involved an awful lot of drink. At the time I think he was banished to ne of the boats rather than the house (never thought it was posh by Berko standards interesting certainly).

[Lesd]

It is possible that the proposals for Berkhamsted have been highly influenced by a certain well known local, (and former Mayor), who did once operate a hire boat business locally, but now lives in one of the biggest poshest houses that looks outfrom a grand balcony over one of the lengths where it is planned to introduce restrictions, (and where boats do not always currently adhere to even 14 day stays). But I could be wrong, so it would be unfair to name her, I think.

 

Lots of talk locally to that effect; The unnamed lady, CARP, the council and CART all in bed together etc

[Radiomariner]

OMG. If CRT contract out the business of controlling moorings, can we expect Propellor clamping?

[Athy]

That's a name from the past

I just checked on the internet. Lindy Foster still lives in the Berkhamsted area. She is now known as Lindy Foster Weinreb, so presumably has remarried. She now works for a television company but also appears to have her own PR company, Castle Wharf, so she must keep very busy.

Dates for Bridgewater Boats' operation are given as 1971 to 1999. No clue as to why they closed down, though - as fare as I know they would not have faced much competition in that part of the canal system.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Athy

[alan_fincher]

That's a name from the past had a couple of interesting evenings with Mike that I can only just remember as they always involved an awful lot of drink.

That sentence, unfortunately, includes the reason he is still not with us.

[Lady Muck]

Well the hire boat fleet up here on the Lee couldn't make it pay. Perhaps people prefer to book their boating holidays elsewhere?

[alan_fincher]

Dates for Bridgewater Boats' operation are given as 1971 to 1999. No clue as to why they closed down, though - as fare as I know they would not have faced much competition in that part of the canal system.

 

Probably boats well past their sell by date, (many were variants of Springer, I think), coupled with the whole down turn in the hire boat trade. No enthusiasm for reinvesting in the much more sophisticated boats that hirers now seem to demand.

 

Many many hire boat firms have come and gone on the Southern reaches of the GU, such as at Pitstone, CowRoast, Iver, Adelaide Dock, and many more. There really is now only one left South of Gayton.

 

The heavily locked stretches South of Tring summit are not universally popular with hire boaters, and now most hirings are seldom more than 3 or 4 days, giving you a maximum 2 days in any direction, you can't really sell holidays from many of these bases as really "going" anywhere.

 

Undoubtedly the owner of the Berkhamsted operation may well have also ceased trading because of personal circumstances. He died nearly 4 years ago now, it seems

 

News Linky

[Tuscan]

I just checked on the internet. Lindy Foster still lives in the Berkhamsted area. She is now known as Lindy Foster Weinreb, so presumably has remarried. She now works for a television company but also appears to have her own PR company, Castle Wharf, so she must keep very busy.

Dates for Bridgewater Boats' operation are given as 1971 to 1999. No clue as to why they closed down, though - as fare as I know they would not have faced much competition in that part of the canal system.

 

 

I believe they closed as part of the split up with her husband who used to run the boats

[PiRSqwared]

Well the hire boat fleet up here on the Lee couldn't make it pay. Perhaps people prefer to book their boating holidays elsewhere?

I guess the tower blocks of Ponders End and the Edmonton bus depot are unable to rival the charms of Stoke Bruerne and Braunston

[Athy]

 

Probably boats well past their sell by date, (many were variants of Springer, I think), coupled with the whole down turn in the hire boat trade. No enthusiasm for reinvesting in the much more sophisticated boats that hirers now seem to demand.

 

Many many hire boat firms have come and gone on the Southern reaches of the GU, such as at Pitstone, CowRoast, Iver, Adelaide Dock, and many more. There really is now only one left South of Gayton.

 

The heavily locked stretches South of Tring summit are not universally popular with hire boaters, and now most hirings are seldom more than 3 or 4 days, giving you a maximum 2 days in any direction, you can't really sell holidays from many of these bases as really "going" anywhere.

 

Undoubtedly the owner of the Berkhamsted operation may well have also ceased trading because of personal circumstances. He died nearly 4 years ago now, it seems

 

News Linky

 

Thanks Alan. i was surprised that the news item did not mention Lindy, until another post mentioned that they had split up.

I remember getting their brochures a couple of times during our hiring days (which effectively ended in 1998). In the photos the boats looked very smart, can't remember if they were Springers, but if so, they had been given a lick of paint! I also remember one remarkable photo in the brochure: it showed a kingfisher perching on Lindy's hand. I always wondered whether it was trick photography.

I guess that frequent locks might put people off from hiring on the Southen GU, (although it does not seem to deter hirers from sweating their way up and down the Caen Hill Flight on the K&A.) I'd have thought that there would be a gap in the market for a new hire base down there because of the area's easy accessibility from London.

That said, after your cautionary tale of so many hire fleet failures I shan't be investing my money in it!

[alan_fincher]

I guess the tower blocks of Ponders End and the Edmonton bus depot are unable to rival the charms of Stoke Bruerne and Braunston

Also the hire boat fleet on the Lee was one of the most amazingly scruffy set of hire boats you could have imagined.

 

Not repainted in years, some of them were rusty and filthy.

 

Quite a few of them are now part of the "problem" that Sally Ash is trying to solve on the GU, in some cases still with the name of the hire fleet not even obliterated

[LEO]

Thanks Alan. i was surprised that the news item did not mention Lindy, until another post mentioned that they had split up.

I remember getting their brochures a couple of times during our hiring days (which effectively ended in 1998). In the photos the boats looked very smart, can't remember if they were Springers, but if so, they had been given a lick of paint! I also remember one remarkable photo in the brochure: it showed a kingfisher perching on Lindy's hand. I always wondered whether it was trick photography.

I guess that frequent locks might put people off from hiring on the Southen GU, (although it does not seem to deter hirers from sweating their way up and down the Caen Hill Flight on the K&A.) I'd have thought that there would be a gap in the market for a new hire base down there because of the area's easy accessibility from London.

That said, after your cautionary tale of so many hire fleet failures I shan't be investing my money in it!

 

Hi,

 

Sadly the hire charges for these boats became very expensive and they appeared to let the boats to 'gentile twosomes' who collected them on a Friday - worked their way up to Cowroast, overnighted and met up with their mates in the pub and all set off on Saturday morning.

 

I recall 2 boat crews swigging from bottles at 10.00 am and then roaring through the moorings two boats abreast with hirers on the roof using quanting poles and jousting sticks. This method of hiring became the norm.

 

Complaints to Mike Foster were pointless...

 

Sorry to see them go.....not really.

 

We get some hirers overnighting doing the Thames ring, the training boats from LB have dried up due to the economy.

 

Leo.

[KenK]

Hi,

 

Sadly the hire charges for these boats became very expensive and they appeared to let the boats to 'gentile twosomes' who collected them on a Friday - worked their way up to Cowroast, overnighted and met up with their mates in the pub and all set off on Saturday morning.

 

I recall 2 boat crews swigging from bottles at 10.00 am and then roaring through the moorings two boats abreast with hirers on the roof using quanting poles and jousting sticks. This method of hiring became the norm.

 

Complaints to Mike Foster were pointless...

 

Sorry to see them go.....not really.

 

We get some hirers overnighting doing the Thames ring, the training boats from LB have dried up due to the economy.

 

Leo.

 

When we passed that way in 2011 there were Black Prince boats on the Paddington Arm, based at Willowbridge Marina, if I remembered the name correctly. Anyone know if they still operate from there?

 

Ken

[LEO]

When we passed that way in 2011 there were Black Prince boats on the Paddington Arm, based at Willowbridge Marina, if I remembered the name correctly. Anyone know if they still operate from there?

 

Ken

 

Hi,

 

Not sure on that, have seen some BP boats go through, but most are from Wyvern, not seen any Canaltime boats on the summit for several years. Nowadays all hirers I see at Cowroast seem keen, thoughtful boaters. Have to see what Easter brings.

 

Many seem to turn at the winding hole and head back North.

 

Leo.

[eightpot]

When we passed that way in 2011 there were Black Prince boats on the Paddington Arm, based at Willowbridge Marina, if I remembered the name correctly. Anyone know if they still operate from there?

 

Ken

Willowtree Marina, and yes there are sevem Black Prince boats there.

[alan_fincher]

When we passed that way in 2011 there were Black Prince boats on the Paddington Arm, based at Willowbridge Marina, if I remembered the name correctly. Anyone know if they still operate from there?

 

Ken

Yes,

 

As already mentioned I think, there is still a BP fleet operating on the Paddington arm now.

 

Popular opinion seems to be that it mostly does short term hirings, and the boats often hang around in the London area, providing a base near the city.

 

I'm also told, but can't confirm, that they rarely venture up the Grand Union as far as any of the more southerly locations named in this VM proposal, such as Cassiobury or Batchworth.

 

If anybody can produce evidence of hire boats, (Wyvern, Black Prince or any other company) at those locations, (and unable to tie up there!), then I'm happy to be corrected. CRT certainly show no willingness to support the need for changes to accommodate hire boats there with any real data.

 

Frankly, I tried very hard to treat this as a sensible attempt at a consultation, but if becomes more farcical with each new twist.

 

My FOI request remains unanswered, they will not provide supporting evidence as part of any dialogue we have had, and I have little optimism that any evidence will now be provided before the consultation closes on March 1st.

 

Very frustrating, and not good press for "the Trust" if it genuinely wants to be seen as "more open".

[Lady Muck]

My partner says he thinks the Trust wants to be seen as more open, wants to pretend to be more open without being more open at all.

 

My trust of the Trust diminishes the more I hear.

[KenK]

Yes,

 

As already mentioned I think, there is still a BP fleet operating on the Paddington arm now.

 

Popular opinion seems to be that it mostly does short term hirings, and the boats often hang around in the London area, providing a base near the city.

 

I'm also told, but can't confirm, that they rarely venture up the Grand Union as far as any of the more southerly locations named in this VM proposal, such as Cassiobury or Batchworth.

 

If anybody can produce evidence of hire boats, (Wyvern, Black Prince or any other company) at those locations, (and unable to tie up there!), then I'm happy to be corrected. CRT certainly show no willingness to support the need for changes to accommodate hire boats there with any real data.

 

Frankly, I tried very hard to treat this as a sensible attempt at a consultation, but if becomes more farcical with each new twist.

 

My FOI request remains unanswered, they will not provide supporting evidence as part of any dialogue we have had, and I have little optimism that any evidence will now be provided before the consultation closes on March 1st.

 

Very frustrating, and not good press for "the Trust" if it genuinely wants to be seen as "more open".

 

To be honest I don't know why anyone is suprised. A so called mooring steering group was set up on the K&A a few years ago, when it didn't go the way BW,as was, wished they closed it without explanation. Sally was involved in that as well, the one time she could not attend more was acomplished in a single meeting than all the previous ones. C&RT is still run by BW directors, sticking a few well meaning trustees, councils, waterways partnerships, boaters meetings, etc. does not change the culture overnight. Only when the last of the current directors and Tony Hales are a distant memory do I believe we will see real change.

 

This so called consultation is a smokescreen, there isn't a problem, start a consultation, "listen" to boaters, declare that you have listened and no changes are required. C&RT delares itself different from BW the sharing caring trust, Oh! sorry wasn't that a bank catch phrase.

 

 

Ken

[sueb]

Glad people are catching on to the fact that nothing has changed. I really don't know what the answer is until there is a culture change. This is why I've always supported EA they propose something, you tell them what you think, they tell you what they are going to do and why. You might not always agree with them but you do know the reasoning behind it.

[Tuscan]

A good point Sue I can't think of another charity that issues a consultation document whilst admitting that they have no evidence that supports the proposed changes but justifies it by saying that they would retrospectively prove or not prove the need for the changes by daily inspections after the change has been made. It ever sounds strange when I type it. But to prove Sue's point could you imagine a government department saying this.

 

A good point Sue I can't think of another charity that issues a consultation document whilst admitting that they have no evidence that supports the proposed changes but justifies it by saying that they would retrospectively prove or not prove the need for the changes by daily inspections after the change has been made. It ever sounds strange when I type it. But to prove Sue's point could you imagine a government department saying this.

 

 

Very strange got a server error notice then it posted twice must be the upgrade.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Tuscan

[lindy@DeeTV]

Just to put the record straight. When my late ex husband Mike sold Bridgewater Boatyard for residential development, I moved heaven and earth to stop it loosing it’s link with the waterway. We really wanted to make it into a community boatyard offering apprenticeships in traditional waterway crafts including steel boatbuilding. There had been a noisy working boatyard there since 1799 so complaining neighbours would not have stood an earthly. Many years of hard work at least ensured that an acceptable development was built, a workshop rebuilt, and the slipway retained as a planning condition. I also achieved a condition that it should be a ”working boatyard” but DBC currently are not fulfilling their duty in ensuring that! Hundreds of waterways movers and shakers helped me in the campaign, without them we would not have got as far as we did, to them I am eternally grateful. David Hilling worked with me on the eight desks through Berkhamsted, recording our waterways history. Phil Speight ‘bless him’ painted the five wonderful signs we have. We also produced a leaflet of the waterways in the area which all helped influence the inspector. I made the web site for Save our Wharf on Iweb so it no longer exists, but I have found our previous rather amateur site which shows how the fight progressed. See … http://websfor.org/saveourwharf/home/home.asp In retrospect I suppose a community boatyard was pie in the sky, but it would have been great if we had achieved it - we did make sure the development was not totally residential - and it is visually acceptable with a waterway feel about it. Those of us who love and care for our waterways did our best - it was not quite good enough! But we put hours and hours into trying.

[ditchcrawler]

Just to put the record straight. When my late ex husband Mike sold Bridgewater Boatyard for residential development, I moved heaven and earth to stop it loosing it’s link with the waterway. We really wanted to make it into a community boatyard offering apprenticeships in traditional waterway crafts including steel boatbuilding. There had been a noisy working boatyard there since 1799 so complaining neighbours would not have stood an earthly. Many years of hard work at least ensured that an acceptable development was built, a workshop rebuilt, and the slipway retained as a planning condition. I also achieved a condition that it should be a ”working boatyard” but DBC currently are not fulfilling their duty in ensuring that! Hundreds of waterways movers and shakers helped me in the campaign, without them we would not have got as far as we did, to them I am eternally grateful. David Hilling worked with me on the eight desks through Berkhamsted, recording our waterways history. Phil Speight ‘bless him’ painted the five wonderful signs we have. We also produced a leaflet of the waterways in the area which all helped influence the inspector. I made the web site for Save our Wharf on Iweb so it no longer exists, but I have found our previous rather amateur site which shows how the fight progressed. See … http://websfor.org/saveourwharf/home/home.asp In retrospect I suppose a community boatyard was pie in the sky, but it would have been great if we had achieved it - we did make sure the development was not totally residential - and it is visually acceptable with a waterway feel about it. Those of us who love and care for our waterways did our best - it was not quite good enough! But we put hours and hours into trying.

Remember that campaign

[CDS]

Yes,

 

As already mentioned I think, there is still a BP fleet operating on the Paddington arm now.

 

Popular opinion seems to be that it mostly does short term hirings, and the boats often hang around in the London area, providing a base near the city.

 

I'm also told, but can't confirm, that they rarely venture up the Grand Union as far as any of the more southerly locations named in this VM proposal, such as Cassiobury or Batchworth.

 

If anybody can produce evidence of hire boats, (Wyvern, Black Prince or any other company) at those locations, (and unable to tie up there!), then I'm happy to be corrected. CRT certainly show no willingness to support the need for changes to accommodate hire boats there with any real data.

 

Frankly, I tried very hard to treat this as a sensible attempt at a consultation, but if becomes more farcical with each new twist.

 

My FOI request remains unanswered, they will not provide supporting evidence as part of any dialogue we have had, and I have little optimism that any evidence will now be provided before the consultation closes on March 1st.

 

Very frustrating, and not good press for "the Trust" if it genuinely wants to be seen as "more open".

I believe Black Prince pulled out of Paddington this year citing commercial reasons

[alan_fincher]

I believe Black Prince pulled out of Paddington this year citing commercial reasons

Yes, they recently have.

 

The post you have quoted is nearly 3 years old, of course.

 

I think some of the reasons they have given up had to do with sending hire boats out of Limehouse on to the tidal Thames, something for which private boaters owning narrow boats of the sizes BP operated need a VHF radio certification for, of course.

 

Were they not stopped from doing so, at least for a while?