Trespassing on boats

[webdev]

Hi guys,

 

I live on a private marina and recently I've noticed that while I've been at work during the daytime, my boat has been moved several times as the marina owners are constantly moving their own boats around the marina in order to put them up for sale and so on. On a couple of occasions, some large scratches appeared on the boat when I wasn't there and I am pi***d as hell about this as it's a brand new boat.

 

Some of the other moorers have also had their boats moved without being asked and they are equally agrieved by it, but none of the others have had physical damage like mine.

 

So can someone tell me where I stand legally with this sort of thing, as I have no idea what sort of protection a boat owner has about others either moving their boat without permission, or causing damage to the boat when they're not around? Are there any laws about trespassing on a boat because it's private property, in the same way as for a house? The marina owners seem to think that as the marina is theirs they can shift anyone's boat around as they please, as if the boats are their property too.

 

Also, like most boat owners, while I'm not on site I'm powerless to protect my home and belongings, so does anyone have any advice about the best way to protect my boat in future (cameras, etc) to prevent further incidents from happening?

 

Many thanks,

 

webdev

[Paul C]

There is a law against boarding a boat without permission, but I can't remember what it is (a Google search might find it). I'd be as annoyed as you, if this was occuring in a marina (where assumingly, you're paying something of a premium for extra security, over eg towpath mooring). And for it to be the marina staff themselves....did they have permission to move the boats around?

 

As for pragmatic ways to solve the issue....I can't really think of anything. But best of luck, hopefully others can suggest more useful info.

[nicknorman]

Hi guys,

 

I live on a private marina and recently I've noticed that while I've been at work during the daytime, my boat has been moved several times as the marina owners are constantly moving their own boats around the marina in order to put them up for sale and so on. On a couple of occasions, some large scratches appeared on the boat when I wasn't there and I am pi***d as hell about this as it's a brand new boat.

 

Some of the other moorers have also had their boats moved without being asked and they are equally agrieved by it, but none of the others have had physical damage like mine.

 

So can someone tell me where I stand legally with this sort of thing, as I have no idea what sort of protection a boat owner has about others either moving their boat without permission, or causing damage to the boat when they're not around? Are there any laws about trespassing on a boat because it's private property, in the same way as for a house? The marina owners seem to think that as the marina is theirs they can shift anyone's boat around as they please, as if the boats are their property too.

 

Also, like most boat owners, while I'm not on site I'm powerless to protect my home and belongings, so does anyone have any advice about the best way to protect my boat in future (cameras, etc) to prevent further incidents from happening?

 

Many thanks,

 

webdev

 

Check your marina's terms and conditions. Chances are they will allow the marina staff to move your boat if necessary. Of course they would be responsible for any damage, but proving it was them and not you might be a different matter! Have you told the marina about the damage?

 

It hard to imagine how they could have scratched the paintwork - or is it just the blacking? Maybe you could ask for prior notification if they think they will need to move it again? Depending on where you are, there may by now be an oversupply of marina berths in the area, with the old days of marina operators not being that fussed whether you stay or not, over. That could put you in a better position.

[churchward]

Hi guys,

 

I live on a private marina and recently I've noticed that while I've been at work during the daytime, my boat has been moved several times as the marina owners are constantly moving their own boats around the marina in order to put them up for sale and so on. On a couple of occasions, some large scratches appeared on the boat when I wasn't there and I am pi***d as hell about this as it's a brand new boat.

 

Some of the other moorers have also had their boats moved without being asked and they are equally agrieved by it, but none of the others have had physical damage like mine.

 

So can someone tell me where I stand legally with this sort of thing, as I have no idea what sort of protection a boat owner has about others either moving their boat without permission, or causing damage to the boat when they're not around? Are there any laws about trespassing on a boat because it's private property, in the same way as for a house? The marina owners seem to think that as the marina is theirs they can shift anyone's boat around as they please, as if the boats are their property too.

 

Also, like most boat owners, while I'm not on site I'm powerless to protect my home and belongings, so does anyone have any advice about the best way to protect my boat in future (cameras, etc) to prevent further incidents from happening?

 

Many thanks,

 

webdev

Have a look at your Marina agreement terms and conditions. I have seen Marina T&Cs with a clause that states they have the right to move your boat either for specific reasons or just a general let to move it when they need to.

 

If your agreement does not have this then I think you have reason to ask why they are doing this and ask them to inform you first. If the agreement dopes have such a clause depending on what it exactly says you may have no right to refuse and they no obligation to ask or inform you.

[TNC]

Hi guys,

 

I live on a private marina and recently I've noticed that while I've been at work during the daytime, my boat has been moved several times as the marina owners are constantly moving their own boats around the marina in order to put them up for sale and so on. On a couple of occasions, some large scratches appeared on the boat when I wasn't there and I am pi***d as hell about this as it's a brand new boat.

 

Some of the other moorers have also had their boats moved without being asked and they are equally agrieved by it, but none of the others have had physical damage like mine.

 

So can someone tell me where I stand legally with this sort of thing, as I have no idea what sort of protection a boat owner has about others either moving their boat without permission, or causing damage to the boat when they're not around? Are there any laws about trespassing on a boat because it's private property, in the same way as for a house? The marina owners seem to think that as the marina is theirs they can shift anyone's boat around as they please, as if the boats are their property too.

 

Also, like most boat owners, while I'm not on site I'm powerless to protect my home and belongings, so does anyone have any advice about the best way to protect my boat in future (cameras, etc) to prevent further incidents from happening?

 

Many thanks,

 

webdev

 

Name and shame! (or give us a clue)

[MtB]

Have a look at your Marina agreement terms and conditions. I have seen Marina T&Cs with a clause that states they have the right to move your boat either for specific reasons or just a general let to move it when they need to.

 

I've never seen a moorings agreement that doesn't give the marina the right to move your boat around as they see fit. Even so, it is generally unusual for marinas to move boats around without giving you notice in advance so I think you're unlucky with this marina. Best thing to do is moor somewhere else as I don't think you're going to train them out of it, given they have both the mindest and (probably) the legal right to do it.

 

MtB

 

 

P.S. Either that or lighten up about it. A boat is gonna get wear and tear. It's what happens to them when you put them in the water!

 

 

Edited to clarify my second sentence.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Mike the Boilerman

[Tuscan]

Can you change moorings within he marina? Might be worth having a discussion with them

Edited February 2, 2013 by Tuscan

[dmr]

The terms and conditions of most marinas will allow them to move your boat.

This might be for their convenience, but it just might be to prevent damage to your boat, or in very rare cases to prevent the sinking of your boat.

Hopefully you are paying for the marina to take care of your boat and this might involve boarding it!

When we had a marina berth we always left the keys with the caretaker and would have expected them to enter the boat in an emergency.

Were the scratches the normal "below the gunnel" scrapes that a narrowboat would reasonably be expected to sustain?

 

.......Dve

[kevinl]

I have been asked to move my boat to a diferent pontoon so they can match boat lenghts to pontoon lengths and so not waste any space, but no body has moved it for me. Sounds a bit cheeky just moving boats without asking, it's not like you're not there for weeks at a time. Probably there will be a clause in the terms saying that boats can be moved if they like, I'd point out that damage has been done it might make them think about asking you to do it next time or at least be more careful.

Problem is they're the landlord and you're just a tennant gives them a bit of an upper hand, what are the odds of all the owners standing up and saying we don't like it and we'll go if you don't stop, 'bout zero probably.

[JDR]

I've moored in two large marinas, one BWML, one private. The T&Cs for both included a clause about the management's right to move any boat at their discretion but at no point in nearly three years did this happen.

 

Difficult to call without knowing the exact layout of the marina but if it is happening so regularly that you consider it unreasonable the ultimate solution is to move to somewhere else.

 

If the scratches are above the gunwales then I too wouldn't be too chuffed but personally I consider any paint on the gunwales to be pretty much sacrificial. Next time I paint the boat I'll either just use blacking or Rustoleum on the gunwales as they will have so many scratches after a years use I get bored of wasting expensive paint on them.

[alan_fincher]

What most of the others have said.

 

I would imagine most marina contracts you enter in to permit them to move your boat - in the only marina we have ever been in the contract certainly permitted them to do that without asking.

 

I certainly don't think trespass will enter in to it!

 

The best you can do is to try and reach some understanding with them about the damage, but of course they may say it wasn't them.

[FadeToScarlet]

Put down a very large mud weight?

[webdev]

There is a law against boarding a boat without permission, but I can't remember what it is (a Google search might find it). I'd be as annoyed as you, if this was occuring in a marina (where assumingly, you're paying something of a premium for extra security, over eg towpath mooring). And for it to be the marina staff themselves....did they have permission to move the boats around?

 

As for pragmatic ways to solve the issue....I can't really think of anything. But best of luck, hopefully others can suggest more useful info.

Ironically, the marina has CCTV to prevent intruders from damaging property, but it seems it's not intruders I need to be wary of!

 

No, they did not have my permission to move my boat on any of these occasions. The thing is, I don't even mind them moving it as long as they are CAREFUL and they give me some prior notice so I have a chance to inspect the boat both before and afterwards for damages. But the boat has been moved without permission and without warning on several occasions that I know of.

 

Check your marina's terms and conditions. Chances are they will allow the marina staff to move your boat if necessary. Of course they would be responsible for any damage, but proving it was them and not you might be a different matter! Have you told the marina about the damage?

 

It hard to imagine how they could have scratched the paintwork - or is it just the blacking? Maybe you could ask for prior notification if they think they will need to move it again? Depending on where you are, there may by now be an oversupply of marina berths in the area, with the old days of marina operators not being that fussed whether you stay or not, over. That could put you in a better position.

I don't even remember ever seeing any T&Cs or being given a handbook of any kind, so I will definately have to look into that.

 

If the paintwork was damaged in the blacking then I wouldn't even be bothered, but it's above the gunwhales and the high-gloss paintwork that's been damaged - a long, ugly scratch about two feet long, and another chunk that's been taken out of the paintwork further back. How on earth they can be so careless I have no idea.

 

Yes, I have notified them of the damages in writing and they are aware of the situation. They agreed to repair the damage, but at the same time they denied that the boat had ever been moved, and say the ropes had only been untied to prevent the ropes from causing an obstruction on the pathway. This is complete nonsense, as the ropes don't come anywhere near the pathway! They also agreed in their response to ask for permission in future before they go moving my boat - but just recently my boat has been moved again, and without warning, and I'm pretty sure another couple of scratches have surfaced since.

Edited February 3, 2013 by webdev

[Rebotco]

I would be somewhat peeved if they scratched it by moving it carelessly.

OTH I would be more peeved if the adjoining boat caught fire and they didn't move mine out of danger!

It would be almost criminal for them not to have that right (and duty).

[DeanS]

Could you share what type of damage was caused? If it was a scratch on a bit under the gunwhale, some might say you're over-reacting (I'm not). If it's a scratch to something above the gunwhale, an over-reaction would be more justified. Just going into a lock is bound to scratch the boat under the gunwhale. Of course you're justified in being upset...I would hate to think someone was moving my boat around without me being there to oversee it.

[alan_fincher]

But have you checked the contract you have with them?

 

If you have signed up to them being able to move your boat without asking first, (and I'd say that is a normal condition of many marinas), then you can't complain either that they moved it, or that they didn't warn you - only that you think they have damaged it.

 

Check all the small print, and you will then have a better idea what you have agreed to, and what you have not.

[Grace and Favour]

As well as using mooring lines - have a goat chain or two padlocked to a mooring ring if possible

[webdev]

Could you share what type of damage was caused? If it was a scratch on a bit under the gunwhale, some might say you're over-reacting (I'm not). If it's a scratch to something above the gunwhale, an over-reaction would be more justified. Just going into a lock is bound to scratch the boat under the gunwhale. Of course you're justified in being upset...I would hate to think someone was moving my boat around without me being there to oversee it.

This is the damage. It wouldn't mind if it were below the gunwhales as it could've just been blacked over.

 

Pic 1. This scrape is two feet long.

 

 

Pic 2. This hole is two inches wide.

 

Edited February 3, 2013 by webdev

[DeanS]

This is the damage. It wouldn't mind if it were below the gunwhales as it could have just been blacked over.

 

 

 

I'm sorry about that. I would say that damage is unacceptable, and you might have some luck in a small claims court (Im not a lawyer). I think if they are allowed to move your boat, they should take the neccessary precautions while doing so, to prevent that kind of damage. You're completely justified in being angry...I would be. (but I have also learned that one can get too worked up trying to keep a boat looking 100%. Maybe it's not worth it).

[nicknorman]

This is the damage. It wouldn't mind if it were below the gunwhales as it could've just been blacked over.

 

In the first photo there seem to be 2 scratches, one above the gunnels, and one below, though still on the painted area. Which of these scratches are we talking about (or both?). Anyway, if that was my boat I would be really peed off. However, you say they have agreed to repair the damage so I suppose you can't ask for more than that this time - just try to prevent a next time.

[bowten]

Are you sure it wasn't one of your neighbours?

[webdev]

In the first photo there seem to be 2 scratches, one above the gunnels, and one below, though still on the painted area. Which of these scratches are we talking about (or both?). Anyway, if that was my boat I would be really peed off. However, you say they have agreed to repair the damage so I suppose you can't ask for more than that this time - just try to prevent a next time.

Sorry, yes, I used the word 'gunwhales' incorrectly - being a newbie! I simply meant below the blacking line (if that's the correct phrase). I don't mind any scratches in the blacking itself as it's easy to paint over and only to be expected with boats anyway. It's the damages in the glossy blue paintwork that pees me off. Totally unnecessary for them to be scratching the paintwork that high up on the boat.

 

But yes as I mentioned above, even though they've agreed to repair it, they've now gone and moved the boat again this week without notifying me - thus breaking our previous agreement.

Edited February 3, 2013 by webdev

[Naughty Cal]

You really need to get hold of a copy of your moorings terms and conditions book to see where you stand.

 

As others have said it is a fairly standard condition that they can move your boat.

 

That said in over four years the only time our marina has moved our boat is when they have had our permission to take it to and from the slipway during lifting ashore and relaunching.

 

Your first move here has to be to clarify the situation regarding moving boats. They have already agreed to pay for the damage to paintwork so that is a start.

[Oldboater]

This is interesting as I am currently in dispute with our marina owners who recently carried out a straight forward engine service but omitted to fit the top seal on the diesel filter. When we returned to the boat the filter had leaked about 50 ltrs of diesel into the engine compartment. This was eventually sucked out on the Tuesday after we arrived late on the Sunday (they don't work on Monday - sorry) and they have agreed to replace the diesel. Fair enough - RCR replaced the filter on the Monday morning. I then discovered bright deep scratches on the high gloss paintwork running through the name graphic, I know for certain that they weren't there when we left the boat before Christmas and I know they had trouble with the engine stalling during manoeuvering back into the marina as they were observed by other moorers. However they deny all knowledge and do not accept responsibility and I can't prove it as I wasn't there so I'm left to pick up the costs of the repairs - tough luck eh!

[RLWP]

 

 

When did it become fashionable to paint that part of the hull in topcoat? We black that part as it is just as vulnerable to wear and tear as the bit below the rubbing strip

 

Richard