Talk me out of a widebeam please

[Guest]

There is always the roof option, or the center rope offered up on a boat hook, a tracer rope with a soft weight attached. Center rope is of course too short to reach the prop.

 

These things just need thinking about a bit.

 

That of course depends on the length - TBH either of ours if fully deployed could certainly wrap itself around if we were careless.

 

But I like you think there are ways to adapt your boating to compensate for the design of the boat and whilst I would not attempt some of the French Inland waterways in a boat not better suited to certain parts I certainly would not be dissuaded from cruising large parts of it.

 

La Sarth for example has moorings and locks very similar to what we see in the UK as does La Mayenne

 

 

 

 

and the Canal Lateral a la Garonne pictured here at Le Mas D' Agenais when we last visited all look to me suitable for a UK Widebeam.

 

 

 

Of course the challenge is getting from here to other parts of the French system where you will have to navigate bits not best suited to such a boat - but you may want to go for it given your engine -

 

Wandering Snail's blog makes interesting reading too.

[Biggles]

A center rope should not be long enough to reach the prop IMO.

 

Nice photos.

[Guest]

A center rope should not be long enough to reach the prop IMO.

 

Nice photos.

 

Cheers

 

- problem is that if we have one that doesn't it is not long enough to rope off and take back to the steerer in some of our very deep locks should we want or need to.

 

What we do for 95% of the time is stow it them as per pic. - they are short enough then not to get caught in the prop. and then deploy them as longer lines when we need to, not sure if this constitutes good 'boatmanship' but it works for us, we actually in practice have found we rarely need to fully utilise them. Of course if we have got them fully deployed we need to ensure we don't drop one in the water.

 

Edited October 15, 2012 by The Dog House

[Athy]

There is always the roof option, or the center rope offered up on a boat hook, a tracer rope with a soft weight attached. Center rope is of course too short to reach the prop.

 

These things just need thinking about a bit.

Yes, and believe you me, I thought about them, afterwards. Hindsight is a wonderful gift. It must have worked, as I didn't make the same mistake again!

 

Our centre rope on Trojan might reach the prop. I haven't tried for obvious reasons.

[mrsmelly]

To some extent your first sentence is true however, having had experience of both systems, the thing that you miss with wheel steering (hydraulically actuated rudder I'm talking now) is feedback. With a properly sized and installed tiller/rudder system you get constant feedback by the pressure resisting your effort to move it. There is no significant feedback with a wheel system and that is why you have rudder position indicators on a lot of hydraulically operated rudder systems; and very useful they are too. However, until you get used to a wheel you do tend to zig-zag slightly due to the deadness of feel and lack of feedback and this is why some people will look like muppets. How long they remain like muppets will depend on their natural skills, learning skills and intelligence

Roger

 

This is true. I vastly prefer the tiller on my piddly widebeam as it is instant and responds immediately and stood on the back I can see the whole boat before me. The boats at work are both hydraulic steering and one is quite heavy and lots of turns lock to lock and to make things even more fun I cannot see any of the seventy odd feet of boat behind me and hardly anything of the few feet in front of me, I have to steer by the feel through my feet or ares if sat down

 

Tim

 

I agree the feedback/instant response of a tiller is better but after a few months experience wheel/hydraulic steering is fine (I exclude chain rudders which I haven't used).

 

Peter

 

 

 

My mate has chain driven wheel steering on his barge. It is far quicker and more precise than hydraulic wheel steering

 

Tim

[Kiwipeter]

The pretty pics of the Garonne by Dog House can give the wrong impression as you need (as he pointed out)to move on commercial canals/large rivers to get to the quiet spots; for example:

 

Proper ecluses

 

 

 

Big rivers

 

 

Small canals with peniches

 

 

Cross big etangs

 

 

and even on the Midi the eclusiers like filling double and treble locks at once (and if in a hurry, before you are tied on properly)

 

 

so the suggestion was not that a widebeam couldn't do it, but the Oxford canal it aint

Edited October 15, 2012 by Kiwipeter

[Guest]

 

 

aye scary - scarier videos are available on youtube - and they are the correct way up

 

That is one particular flight on one particular canal - écluse de Fonserannes if I am not mistaken on the Canal Du Midi. It is not typical of locks on the French system.

[Athy]

aye scary - scarier videos are available on youtube - and they are the correct way up

 

That is one particular flight on one particular canal - écluse de Fonserannes if I am not mistaken on the Canal Du Midi. It is not typical of locks on the French system.

Yes, we went up that. It's a staircase, isn't it? There was a fair bit of turbulence and of grimly hanging on to ropes!

[Kiwipeter]

The photo snuck on before I could adjust it - no it is towards La Segala (west of Castelnaudary) and there are similar double and trebles (+) on most of the 'quiet' canals eg on the Midi there are 18 multiples. No problem if you have good boat working areas

[Guest]

The pretty pics of the Garonne by Dog House can give the wrong impression as you need (as he pointed out)to move on commercial canals/large rivers to get to the quiet spots; for example:

 

Glad you like them, and I posted mine with correct orientation too.

 

I am fully conversant with the challenges faced by travelling on the commercial bits and the big rivers and you can post as many 'scary' pics as you wish but it doesn't change the premise of the point that many parts of the system can be successfully traversed by a boat with less capability than is required to traverse the bits you have posted pictures of.

 

The photo snuck on before I could adjust it - no it is towards La Segala (west of Castelnaudary) and there are similar double and trebles (+) on most of the 'quiet' canals eg on the Midi there are 18 multiples. No problem if you have good boat working areas

 

But still not typical of the system overall..

[blackrose]

It's interesting that most people who criticise widebeams for various reasons have never actually owned one (not that they would want to of course), whereas many of those who currently own a widebeam have also previously owned a narrowboat and can actually speak about the pros and cons of the ownership of both types of boats from first-hand experience. I think I know who has rather more credibility in these discussions.

Edited October 15, 2012 by blackrose

[RLWP]

It's interesting that most people who criticise widebeams for various reasons have never actually owned one (not that they would want to of course), whereas many of those who currently own a widebeam have also previously owned a narrowboat and can actually speak about the pros and cons of the ownership of both types of boats from first-hand experience. I think I know who has rather more credibility in these discussions.

 

OK Mike, you win the superiority stakes. You can get of your pedestal now

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

It's interesting that most people who criticise widebeams for various reasons have never actually owned one (not that they would want to of course), whereas many of those who currently own a widebeam have also previously owned a narrowboat and can actually speak about the pros and cons of the ownership of both types of boats from first-hand experience. I think I know who has rather more credibility in these discussions.

I don't think I actually need to go through the ritual of buying a wide beam to appreciate I couldn't possibly take it to the many places we go boating.

 

I personally have absolutely zero interest in buying a canal and river boat I can't get from the "bottom" of the country to the "top" except on a lorry.

 

I'm not suggesting it applies in this thread, but I'm amazed how many people come on the forum, claiming to have done at least their initial research, but clearly having little or no idea of how much your cruising range is restricted once the beam of a boat exceeds 7 feet.

 

Equally it is obvious to me that if one is prepared to live with that major restriction of where you can take it, you can clearly have a lot more living space on a wide-beam.

 

I don't think you need to have owned both types, (or even either type!), to pass this kind of comment, do you ? These are irrefutable facts, not just biased opinions, because you personally favour one type over the other.

 

Horses for courses, isn't it!

[Guest]

I don't think I actually need to go through the ritual of buying a wide beam to appreciate I couldn't possibly take it to the many places we go boating.

 

I personally have absolutely zero interest in buying a canal and river boat I can't get from the "bottom" of the country to the "top" except on a lorry.

 

I'm not suggesting it applies in this thread, but I'm amazed how many people come on the forum, claiming to have done at least their initial research, but clearly having little or no idea of how much your cruising range is restricted once the beam of a boat exceeds 7 feet.

 

Equally it is obvious to me that if one is prepared to live with that major restriction of where you can take it, you can clearly have a lot more living space on a wide-beam.

 

I don't think you need to have owned both types, (or even either type!), to pass this kind of comment, do you ? These are irrefutable facts, not just biased opinions, because you personally favour one type over the other.

 

Horses for courses, isn't it!

 

Which was my point very early in the thread.

 

Realistically when will we see Sickle or Chalice on the Yorkshire waterways ??

[mrsmelly]

Which was my point very early in the thread.

 

Realistically when will we see Sickle or Chalice on the Yorkshire waterways ??

 

Very true. As I also said in an earlier post, how many people buy a narrowboat because it will go anywhere and then go precisely nowhere ? Many of them moor in this Marina on narrowboats and I kid you not when I say they never go on a narrow canal

 

Tim

[Albion]

Ok, sorry for the belated reply I have been out moving a Linnsen Grand Sturdy 34.9 (see: Linssen link) from Vermenton to Auxerrre today, all day, for Bourgogne Fluviale. Incidentally also IMO not as user friendly as a barge is for French Nivernais locking purposes.

 

As I thought, people have brought up Minervois Cruisers which was the one that I was thinking of as a possible/likely candidate but I would like you to think about these facts and then make your mind up.

We have all agreed (generally) that a wb nb gives you a lot of bang for your buck (available space for a reasonable cost.....and that they do).

Three French based hire fleets that I can think of that have fleets local to me (Le Boat, Bourgogne Fluviale and Hapimag) all use/have used UK built boats (generally fibreglass but some steel). If the UK built wb nbs are such good value for money and suited to French cruising why have none of these fleets bought them? The investment costs would be less than the boats that they do buy (and profits greater therefore) and yet not one boat in their fleets is a wb nb.

Minervois Cruisers is (AFAIAA) an offshoot of a UK canal business (Napton Narrowboats) and they use them.

Are you spotting a trend here? The French fleets, despite buying in the UK do not use them, the British (the only one) based fleet with sole experience of the UK canal system does. Doesn't that tell you something?

If that illustration doesn't put some evidence before you then I will defer to the greater knowledge and in-depth experience that visiting the French canals on foot gives you and refrain from further comment.

Roger

Edited October 15, 2012 by Albion

[Biggles]

The pretty pics of the Garonne by Dog House can give the wrong impression as you need (as he pointed out)to move on commercial canals/large rivers to get to the quiet spots; for example:

 

Proper ecluses

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't want to get hung up on that cill.

[Kiwipeter]

I reckon the OP must be stunned at how his original posting developed

 

Ok, sorry for the belated reply I have been out moving a Linnsen Grand Sturdy 34.9 (see: Linssen link) from Vermenton to Auxerrre today, all day, for Bourgogne Fluviale. Incidentally also IMO not as user friendly as a barge is for French Nivernais locking purposes.

 

As I thought, people have brought up Minervois Cruisers which was the one that I was thinking of as a possible/likely candidate but I would like you to think about these facts and then make your mind up.

We have all agreed (generally) that a wb nb gives you a lot of bang for your buck (available space for a reasonable cost.....and that they do).

Three French based hire fleets that I can think of that have fleets local to me (Le Boat, Bourgogne Fluviale and Hapimag) all use/have used UK built boats (generally fibreglass but some steel). If the UK built wb nbs are such good value for money and suited to French cruising why have none of these fleets bought them? The investment costs would be less than the boats that they do buy (and profits greater therefore) and yet not one boat in their fleets is a wb nb.

Minervois Cruisers is (AFAIAA) an offshoot of a UK canal business (Napton Narrowboats) and they use them.

Are you spotting a trend here? The French fleets, despite buying in the UK do not use them, the British (the only one) based fleet with sole experience of the UK canal system does. Doesn't that tell you something?

If that illustration doesn't put some evidence before you then I will defer to the greater knowledge and in-depth experience that visiting the French canals on foot gives you and refrain from further comment.

Roger

 

Added to which a high proportion of Minervois customers are British who have experience with narrowboats (or visually appreciate them) and therefore feel comfortable hiring them - at least initially. Seems like a good niche business.

[Guest]

If that illustration doesn't put some evidence before you then I will defer to the greater knowledge and in-depth experience that visiting the French canals on foot gives you and refrain from further comment.

Roger

 

Aye counts for nowt -

 

Sadly in your quest to be patronising you miss the basic point, so at the expense of sounding like a broken record I will repeat it in as few a syllables as needed

 

'The bits I pictured are fine for a UK wide-beam, (actually the more I read a narrowboat too), to get between them may require a more capable boat.'

[alan_fincher]

Which was my point very early in the thread.

 

Realistically when will we see Sickle or Chalice on the Yorkshire waterways ??

Well both spend large amounts of time places they could not go if over 7 foot beam.

 

"Chalice" has been to Manchester this year - so getting bit further onto the waterways you mention just needs a few more consecutive days than we can easily manage currently, but we have already come not that far from achieving it.

 

Even "Sickle" made it around the Four Counties earlier in the year, so either boat can hardly stand accused of ending up quarantined South of Birmingham and of the Watford locks for very long.

[Ange]

Very true. As I also said in an earlier post, how many people buy a narrowboat because it will go anywhere and then go precisely nowhere ? Many of them moor in this Marina on narrowboats and I kid you not when I say they never go on a narrow canal

 

Tim

 

Not us mate

 

We bought a 57' "go anywhere" narrowbeam because we wanted to explore. We've done pretty well so far with lots more to come

[Tuscan]

Yes. We too travel the system. But I take your point and there are many live aboard or not who just seem to sit in tour base marina. But still would never buy a WB sorry

[Ange]

Yes. We too travel the system. But I take your point and there are many live aboard or not who just seem to sit in tour base marina. But still would never buy a WB sorry

Dave & I were chatting about this earlier today. I must admit I'm envious of the space that widebeams offer and there is a bit of me that thinks once we've explored the system we might buy one. Probably settle in the north east where you've got the top of the T&M, the Soar, the Erewash then access to the northern canals via the Trent.

 

But then we thought again and decided we love the narrow canals and many of the places on them too much to ever forgo them.

 

Maybe we'll change our minds later, who knows.

[Iain_S]

(big snip)

Horses for courses, isn't it!

Very true. I'm amazed at the relative number of narrowboats in Scotland, where there aren't any narrow locks. Even Scottish Canals are using an ex-hire narrowboat as their showhouse/boat.

 

Iain

[Guest]

Well both spend large amounts of time places they could not go if over 7 foot beam.

 

"Chalice" has been to Manchester this year - so getting bit further onto the waterways you mention just needs a few more consecutive days than we can easily manage currently, but we have already come not that far from achieving it.

 

Even "Sickle" made it around the Four Counties earlier in the year, so either boat can hardly stand accused of ending up quarantined South of Birmingham and of the Watford locks for very long.

 

Yes actually of all the boaters on here you are probably the ones most likely to achieve full coverage of the system at some point, but some (and I include ourselves in this) are also unlikely ever to achieve this despite initially having 'grand ideas' about how far and wide we would travel we find our 2 to 3 week trips out are not spent maxing out the days cruising but often many an hour just chilling in some nice chosen spot moored somewhere, I accept this doesn't suit everybody.

 

So unless things change for us and we modified our cruising pattern we would now probably now be fine with a widebeam and the range it would give us from our current base, this is what I was meaning in my earlier post about being realistic about how far you will actually travel.

 

ask your self -

 

'if I'm actually going to be happy on canal/river sections suitable to take a wider boat - do I really want to restrict my living space?'

 

It sounds like Tim has come across a number of boaters who didn't ask themselves this question before they bought a narrowboat, or they did and there patterns changed quite quickly.

 

Worse case scenario if you get bored of the South and want to go North or vice versa is you just need to pay to be lifted out, transported and back in again.