Ruthless Eviction of Liveaboards from Fens Marina

[linksty]

I'm late to this thread, and it has drifted off topic, but the Pope's Corner situation is pretty sad. It is one of the few marinas in the area with residential planning permission (I checked before moving there, and was in the middle of negotiating council tax payment when this all blew up). I would have thought the residential permission could be exploited at a premium by the management, and when the letter arrived declaring a surcharge for liveaboards I was not surprised - indeed I would have been happy to pay it. Imagine my surprise a few weeks later when another letter arrived saying that 'because of objections' the surcharge would not be applied (would it not have been better just to tell the residents who didn't want to pay to sling their hook?). And then, out of the blue, the latest letter terminating our licence and closing the marina for 3 months minimum.

 

I've been a little disappointed by the management's decision not to engage with the existing residents when they have taken these decisions, and I really don't understand what benefit is to be gained from the wholesale banning of liveaboard moorings under any circumstances (including payment of elevated mooring fees).

[boathunter]

That's enlightening Linksty and puts a whole new slant on the situation. I believe that's the first mention of existing residential PP, though it's been asked many times on the thread. I agree it's now totally baffling and they are cutting of their nose to spite their face. They must truly be as crazy as they appear to be and crazy people are the most difficult to deal with. It would seem they enjoy having power over others and enjoy excercising it. My heart felt sympathies go out to you all.

Edited October 17, 2012 by boathunter

[AJLintern]

What is the proportion of liveaboards to leisure moorers generally in the area? Is there a shortage of moorings or just residential moorings? If they are going to strictly enforce a non-residential policy have they checked that there is the demand or are they planning to make most of their money from other sources on the site - static caravans, chalets etc...?

[Tuscan]

This is the first time where we have learnt that "because of objections" the residential surcharge was withdrawn. Earlier in the thread several posters thought there must have been a trigger to the action and this must have been it. It seems that there was a knee jerk reaction by the owners or maybe they thought that the majority of liveraboards were objecting and it was only the more recent tenants that were not objecting. Why bother with the hassle if you feel you don't need to.

 

We have just spent two days on the boat in our rural marina which is unusual and as a result of this thread have taken a keener interest than normal and there is a much higher proportion of live aboards here than we were previously aware of.

[Happy Go Lucky]

This is the first time where we have learnt that "because of objections" the residential surcharge was withdrawn. Earlier in the thread several posters thought there must have been a trigger to the action and this must have been it. It seems that there was a knee jerk reaction by the owners or maybe they thought that the majority of liveraboards were objecting and it was only the more recent tenants that were not objecting. Why bother with the hassle if you feel you don't need to.

 

We have just spent two days on the boat in our rural marina which is unusual and as a result of this thread have taken a keener interest than normal and there is a much higher proportion of live aboards here than we were previously aware of.

 

I suspect that those of us planning to pay the surcharge didn't say anything to the Harveys. The only voices they heard were those opposed.

 

While we didn't agree with all the plans of the owners and would have had to make savings in other areas to pay the increased prices, we still felt that it was a better place to live than the alternatives. The mass eviction has been far more traumatic than a gradual drifting away due to changes and price rises.

 

What is the proportion of liveaboards to leisure moorers generally in the area? Is there a shortage of moorings or just residential moorings? If they are going to strictly enforce a non-residential policy have they checked that there is the demand or are they planning to make most of their money from other sources on the site - static caravans, chalets etc...?

 

There is a large community of liveaboards in this area. Cambridge City Council have even taken control of the moorings within their boundaries and there is an official (rather long) waiting list for a place. I haven't really looked into general moorings although the emails coming from the marina owners gave details of a range of options for leisure boats. There used to be a shortage of residential moorings, now there is a dearth. Our hopes currently rest on a set of moorings that haven't been built yet!

 

They must truly be as crazy as they appear to be and crazy people are the most difficult to deal with.

 

I thought the rule was that only poor people can be crazy, rich people are 'eccentric'

[FidoDido]

Cambridgeshire times article here:

 

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/New-owners-give-80-families-three-months-to-leave-for-major-revamp-09102012.htm

 

The comments below the story are far more informative than the story itself...

[Black Ibis]

I suspect that those of us planning to pay the surcharge didn't say anything to the Harveys. The only voices they heard were those opposed.

 

While we didn't agree with all the plans of the owners and would have had to make savings in other areas to pay the increased prices, we still felt that it was a better place to live than the alternatives. The mass eviction has been far more traumatic than a gradual drifting away due to changes and price rises.

 

 

 

There is a large community of liveaboards in this area. Cambridge City Council have even taken control of the moorings within their boundaries and there is an official (rather long) waiting list for a place. I haven't really looked into general moorings although the emails coming from the marina owners gave details of a range of options for leisure boats. There used to be a shortage of residential moorings, now there is a dearth. Our hopes currently rest on a set of moorings that haven't been built yet!

 

 

 

I thought the rule was that only poor people can be crazy, rich people are 'eccentric'

The Cambridge City moorings waiting list is currently taking about a year to get to the top of, although it varies. It took us 2.5 years. Where are these inbuilt moorings?

[OldPeculier]

What is the proportion of liveaboards to leisure moorers generally in the area? Is there a shortage of moorings or just residential moorings? If they are going to strictly enforce a non-residential policy have they checked that there is the demand or are they planning to make most of their money from other sources on the site - static caravans, chalets etc...?

 

 

Demand for moorings?

 

Well we moor our little boat about 3 miles up river. Four years ago we had to wait until a free mooring came up. Over the last few years there have been more and more spaces appearing on the pontoons. I would say this year it was about 75% full.

 

But I suspect that the marina will just be a side line. I can see the place being developed along the lines of Isleham marina. 50 or 60 riverside 'lodges' selling for £150k each is a better prospect than a handfull of live-aboards.

[AJLintern]

That's what I expected - the boats providing a pleasing backdrop for the main site, not just any boats mind - nice boats with no one living on them or all their associated clutter!

[cobaltcodd]

Sadly is now not about the facts, its about the perception of what's going on.

 

The facts are probably a bunch of peaceful boaters, keeping out of he way, paying their way and generally causing no trouble.

 

The perception to the owners and council is probably a moaning militant bunch, who refused to pay an additional charge, especially the facilities on site were improved for them, mostly living illegally and avoiding council tax, tatty boats littering the marina, all sprouting branches of wood, sacks of coal, bikes and heaps of other detritus from the roofs and walkways. Dogs and cats sh1tting everywhere, and finally the threat of violence to the owner's daughter.

 

Basically they are being described as something similar to the average traveller / gypsy illegal caravan site, together with all of the negative aspects that go with it.

 

Who was it that said to never let the facts get in the way of a good story?

 

The one thing that gets more people incandescent with rage on here and elsewhere is the ongoing continuous cruiser and continuous moorer debate. Boiled down to the root cause of the problem is the unfairness that (the generic) "I" play by the rules and absorb the cost / hassle / problems etc, whereas (the generic) "they" don't, and they get away with it. There seems to be a similar thing here with this marina debacle. Probably most of the people on here will sympathise at the problem faced by the marina residents but I also get the impression (from reading all the other posts) that there is also an underlying feeling that most of these residents have not played by the rules over the years, and have got away with it. So now when they're "caught", then that's just the way it is.

 

Personally I'd hate to be in the position of being evicted from something I thought was going to be permanent, and having to uproot from job / school / friends / whatever, but it happens to 100's, if not 1000's of people every day across the UK when they are given 2 months notice to leave their rented properties at the whim of the landlord.

[bowten]

Well said sir.

[Cootwatcher]

I'm late to this thread, and it has drifted off topic, but the Pope's Corner situation is pretty sad. It is one of the few marinas in the area with residential planning permission (I checked before moving there, and was in the middle of negotiating council tax payment when this all blew up). I would have thought the residential permission could be exploited at a premium by the management, and when the letter arrived declaring a surcharge for liveaboards I was not surprised - indeed I would have been happy to pay it. Imagine my surprise a few weeks later when another letter arrived saying that 'because of objections' the surcharge would not be applied (would it not have been better just to tell the residents who didn't want to pay to sling their hook?). And then, out of the blue, the latest letter terminating our licence and closing the marina for 3 months minimum.

 

I've been a little disappointed by the management's decision not to engage with the existing residents when they have taken these decisions, and I really don't understand what benefit is to be gained from the wholesale banning of liveaboard moorings under any circumstances (including payment of elevated mooring fees).

 

Linksty, what is the date of the residential planning permit that you found? And what words did you use in your search of the council site? I have looked at recent applications and not seen one. Thanks.

 

Cootwatcher.

[MtB]

Linksty, what is the date of the residential planning permit that you found? And what words did you use in your search of the council site? I have looked at recent applications and not seen one. Thanks.

 

Cootwatcher.

 

Residential PP (if it exists) could be years or even decades old. Why do you think the application (if it exists) would be recent?

 

Mike

[Tuscan]

I suspect whether they had planning or not is pretty irrelevant I think reading the later posts this was about getting rid of some live aboards who were making life difficult, objecting to the residential surcharge etc. I would not be at all surprised that as the marina refills some will become live aboards again but with new terms and conditions.

[John V]

 

Personally I'd hate to be in the position of being evicted from something I thought was going to be permanent, and having to uproot from job / school / friends / whatever, but it happens to 100's, if not 1000's of people every day across the UK when they are given 2 months notice to leave their rented properties at the whim of the landlord.

 

99.9% of us should NEVER think that things are permanent. Wherever you moor, unless you own the freehold/leasehold you may have to move, you just have to accept it as a fact of boatlife.

[Cootwatcher]

Residential PP (if it exists) could be years or even decades old. Why do you think the application (if it exists) would be recent?

 

Mike I don't

[Tiger 1057]

I suspect whether they had planning or not is pretty irrelevant I think reading the later posts this was about getting rid of some live aboards who were making life difficult, objecting to the residential surcharge etc. I would not be at all surprised that as the marina refills some will become live aboards again but with new terms and conditions.

That was my thought too.

I suspect it is based on legal advice along the lines of it is easier to evict everyone in one go rather than evict individuals seen as a problem.

A very sad situation for those persons who are what others would describe as collateral damage.

[cl@rkey]

The Cambridge City moorings waiting list is currently taking about a year to get to the top of, although it varies. It took us 2.5 years.

Yep, I was offered a mooring in September, having only spent 16 months on the waiting list. I now have 3 months to find a boat, and move it onto the Cam, before I lose the mooring.

[Apes]

What would happen if everyone refused to move? Don't know how many live aboard boats there are, but I guess it would cost the owners a fortune to start forcibly moving anyone. If they start towing you out - buy an old wreck and sink it in the entrance oops. Every one en-mass go down to the local housing and sign on the waiting list with you eviction orders, see what they say.

 

If some of the boats are like the ones where I'm moored I doubt if they would get too far, many have removed the engine or hasn't been started in years.

 

Fight them and fight dirty not dangerously! Sorry this is what happens when your a child of the 60's

 

As an aside where I live in a small close - 95% retired people - a developer wanted to build on some land that would affect us badly - we objected through the right channels to no avail. It was when he said to me (65yo) "Don't know what you lot are complaining about you're not going to be around for all that much longer" - Not a clever thing to say to "Children of the revolution" that made us totally determined and we used everything possible and in the end his plans have had to be scaled down to 50% of what they were.

SO FIGHT

 

I am not a child of the sixties, but I am a liveaboard boater who has spent several years building my home, which I love, and am also currently under threat through a similar scenario to the first post on this forum. I think times are changing for the worst for live-aboards. I also think that times are coming whereby we will either have to fight or lose what many of us love, and have worked extermely hard to attain, not to mention lose the worth of our boats through a flooded market. I think the threat is much larger than one marina making changes, and I think that in order to deal with the coming problems, we will have to all get together to support each others cause. Can anyone advise how many boater's forums there are? It would be a good idea to quantify how many people we have that I suspect are soon to be facing very similar problems.

 

P.S I cant believe someone actually said that to you all! What is this country coming to!!!

 

its very sad when one humans or companies greed causes misery and suffering for fellow humans,

unfortunately this is more and more common in the world we live in

but i believe it can arrested

people who want to continue to liverboard on the waterways are going have to a get active and very vocal.

Stop buying into these divisive stereotypes of moorer and continuous cruiser realize we all have common interest

(the tactic of divide and rule is a very old one)

start believing that we do have rights,the land based traveling community has to be provivded halting sites by every council by law(the law that covers this is a good starting point)

i dont have all the legal knowledge at the moment but you can bet im going to get it as knowledge is power

 

regards kris

 

Well said Kris

 

It really is time to form some sort of boat dwellers organisation. In the long term, I only see this situation getting worse. Liveaboards in reality don't have rights and are vulnerable. Time to stand up for what we pay for. It's not like we are freeloading, we just choose a simpler lifestyle. We pay our way. As many say, it's probably as expensive living on a boat as in a house-flat. I don't see it's much cheaper to live on a boat, yet we have no protection whatsoever.

 

Agreed. How? I'm up for helping. Any ideas? Apes

[Proper Job]

I still can't see what 'security' you're fighting for.

 

Any mooring you have is rented (unless you own the bank/water). If it's rented (land or afloat), you're there at the whim of a landlord.

 

The landlord does not have to give a reason as to why he want you out. He just serves you notice to quit.

[Tuscan]

There would appear to be more and more marinas turning a blind eye to live aboards not less so perhaps the problem is not as bad as you fear. As proper job says unless you have a lease or buy the canal side land you have little security of tenure. In this regard little has changed.

[Proper Job]

It will be interesting to see what happens when CaRT reduce online moorings when new marina's open (I take it CaRT are continuing with that policy).

 

Will the marina's turn a blind eye to residential use of leisure moorings like BW used to?

[sueb]

I am not a child of the sixties, but I am a liveaboard boater who has spent several years building my home, which I love, and am also currently under threat through a similar scenario to the first post on this forum. I think times are changing for the worst for live-aboards. I also think that times are coming whereby we will either have to fight or lose what many of us love, and have worked extermely hard to attain, not to mention lose the worth of our boats through a flooded market. I think the threat is much larger than one marina making changes, and I think that in order to deal with the coming problems, we will have to all get together to support each others cause. Can anyone advise how many boater's forums there are? It would be a good idea to quantify how many people we have that I suspect are soon to be facing very similar problems.

 

P.S I cant believe someone actually said that to you all! What is this country coming to!!!

 

 

 

Well said Kris

 

 

 

Agreed. How? I'm up for helping. Any ideas? Apes

Are you a member of RBOA or Nabo? If you want to help or need help then join.

[John V]

I am not a child of the sixties, but I am a liveaboard boater who has spent several years building my home, which I love, and am also currently under threat through a similar scenario to the first post on this forum. I think times are changing for the worst for live-aboards. I also think that times are coming whereby we will either have to fight or lose what many of us love, and have worked extermely hard to attain, not to mention lose the worth of our boats through a flooded market. I think the threat is much larger than one marina making changes, and I think that in order to deal with the coming problems, we will have to all get together to support each others cause. Can anyone advise how many boater's forums there are? It would be a good idea to quantify how many people we have that I suspect are soon to be facing very similar problems.

 

 

 

You have to be VERY careful what you campaign or wish for. At the moment, unless you are the lease holder or freeholder of the mooring your security of tenure is not that different from land dwellers who rent furnished or part furnished accommodation. If you increase the security of liveaboard moorers, you could well find that it becomes more difficult or even impossible to find residential moorings because of too many rules and restrictions placed on landowners. They will simply make a strict rule of no liveaboards. Something similar happened to the house rental system many years ago, I repeat, you have to be VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

[Tuscan]

You have to be VERY careful what you campaign or wish for. At the moment, unless you are the lease holder or freeholder of the mooring your security of tenure is not that different from land dwellers who rent furnished or part furnished accommodation. If you increase the security of liveaboard moorers, you could well find that it becomes more difficult or even impossible to find residential moorings because of too many rules and restrictions placed on landowners. They will simply make a strict rule of no liveaboards. Something similar happened to the house rental system many years ago, I repeat, you have to be VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

 

 

 

 

I agree there are more liveaboards than official residential spaces in most marinas I believe. However this is currently kept quietly under the radar as neither the boaters or marina owners want the hassle I suspect that will come from more recognition , regulation and cost which would be bound to follow. Faced with this I suspect that many marinas would revert to recreational mooring only.