12 volt back boiler pumped systems

[Fat Boat]

Good afternoon, i have used the search engine on this but am still a little confused

 

we would like to put a backboiler in my squirrel stove and hook it to 4 radiators and a calorifyer that are in place from an eberspacer (sic) system that is being removed

 

i have read that the bolim pump is the one to have, but cannot seem to find them for sale and indeed it seems that they are not trading anymore.

 

can anyone provide a link to anyone selling these pumps

 

we have found the webasto pumps but they seem quite thirsty at 3 amps unless anyone knows any better. we also seem to think that we need a temparature control value/thermostatic valve between the fire and the pump if so can anyone recomend a good one as prices seem to vary from £5 to £50.

 

any help, hints, tips, links that i have missed, diagrams, information all gladly received.

 

thank you in advance

[valrene9600]

Good afternoon, i have used the search engine on this but am still a little confused

 

we would like to put a backboiler in my squirrel stove and hook it to 4 radiators and a calorifyer that are in place from an eberspacer (sic) system that is being removed

 

i have read that the bolim pump is the one to have, but cannot seem to find them for sale and indeed it seems that they are not trading anymore.

 

can anyone provide a link to anyone selling these pumps

 

we have found the webasto pumps but they seem quite thirsty at 3 amps unless anyone knows any better. we also seem to think that we need a temparature control value/thermostatic valve between the fire and the pump if so can anyone recomend a good one as prices seem to vary from £5 to £50.

 

any help, hints, tips, links that i have missed, diagrams, information all gladly received.

 

thank you in advance

Not 100% sure but I would think to feed 4 rads and a califier you would need a raging fire.

[Grace and Favour]

Good afternoon, i have used the search engine on this but am still a little confused

 

we would like to put a backboiler in my squirrel stove and hook it to 4 radiators and a calorifyer that are in place from an eberspacer (sic) system that is being removed

 

i have read that the bolim pump is the one to have, but cannot seem to find them for sale and indeed it seems that they are not trading anymore.

 

can anyone provide a link to anyone selling these pumps

 

we have found the webasto pumps but they seem quite thirsty at 3 amps unless anyone knows any better. we also seem to think that we need a temparature control value/thermostatic valve between the fire and the pump if so can anyone recomend a good one as prices seem to vary from £5 to £50.

 

any help, hints, tips, links that i have missed, diagrams, information all gladly received.

 

thank you in advance

 

If your Webasto was a 5Kw unit, (simply heating the water 0f course) and your Morso is 4.5Kw to provide room heating AND heat the water

 

 

- - - unless someone else knows better - I'd suggest that you're not going to manage the stove to heat 4 radiators and the calorifier

 

Could you take three of the radiators out - it might be OK

[Paul C]

We have a back boiler on our stove - one aspect which shouldn't be forgotten about is that the pump needs to run all the time while the stove is lit. So of course, they will consume electrical power doing this. And they tend to whine a little.

[rjasmith]

The Swedish firm of Ingfa Bolin are indeed no longer trading but I believe some chandlers still hold small stocks of the pumps. Your best bet is to order one from Kuranda (see here).

 

Hope you can cope with the price!!

 

They are indeed good as far as quietness and low power consumption are concerned but unfortunately their shaft seals are allegedly not terribly long lived. This last point is going to be more serious in future if support from the manufacturer has ceased.

 

BTW is the fact that you are slightly mis-spelling "Bolin" as "Bolim" the reason that you can't find any ref to them when you search?

 

Richard

Edited September 24, 2012 by rjasmith

[blackrose]

There are other 12v circulation pumps on the market.

 

http://www.mackengineering.co.uk/products.php?product=CM10P7%252d1-JOHNSON-CIRCULATING-PUMP-12V-MAG-DRIVE-%2816mm%29

 

Does anyone know what these cheap ebay pumps are like?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-Micro-Circulation-Brushless-Motor-Water-Pump-1000mA-5-0M-Brand-NEW-/350601295751?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item51a1773787

 

It's a good idea to install the pump between two gate valves so that you don't have to drain down the whole system to change it.

Edited September 24, 2012 by blackrose

[jonathanA]

These pumps for solar installations seem like a good option and others have reported them to be ok but I've no direct experience, other than I'd use one.

 

http://www.solarproject.co.uk/page2.html

 

certainly worth a look compared to the massively inflated prices of 'marine' items.

[bizzard]

I'm not a plumber by trade but i don't like the idea of a pumped central heating system with a solid fuel stove which is an uncontrollable heat source, if the fire goes out of control perhaps when your out and the pump fails for whatever reason the whole hot water system can erupt into an awful mess and possibly destroying the back boiler. Like if a solid fuel stove system is installed in a house, the water heating storage tank or calorifier i think should be proper thermo-syphon and mounted higher than the stove connected to it with large bore pipes as a back up safety precaution, central heating tee'd off this hot water circuit can then be pumped with more safety.

[bowten]

Do you have an inverter?If you do you could use a domestic type central heating pump,many of them have variable speed control and are very low wattage.This can be connected to a temp sensor near the stove and will only run at your pre-set temp level.The pump can be plugged into the nearest 240v socket.

[bowten]

I'm not a plumber by trade but i don't like the idea of a pumped central heating system with a solid fuel stove which is an uncontrollable heat source, if the fire goes out of control perhaps when your out and the pump fails for whatever reason the whole hot water system can erupt into an awful mess and possibly destroying the back boiler. Like if a solid fuel stove system is installed in a house, the water heating storage tank or calorifier i think should be proper thermo-syphon and mounted higher than the stove connected to it with large bore pipes as a back up safety precaution, central heating tee'd off this hot water circuit can then be pumped with more safety.

Add a pipe going through the roof for pressure relief and put a whistle on it,every time the pressure builds up too much the whistle blows like a locomotive(train to you).She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes.

[bizzard]

Add a pipe going through the roof for pressure relief and put a whistle on it,every time the pressure builds up too much the whistle blows like a locomotive(train to you).She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes.

Good one Ian. An A4 steam loco chime whistle might attract the owners attention to the fact that their electric pump has packed in and their horribly designed hot water system is about to erupt chucking out scalding water and steam.

[MtB]

Good one Ian. An A4 steam loco chime whistle might attract the owners attention to the fact that their electric pump has packed in and their horribly designed hot water system is about to erupt chucking out scalding water and steam.

 

I agree. The whistle will only tell you what you already know. The boiler is boiling (last thing you want a boiler to do!) and the thumping noise which will precede the whistle sounding will be so loud you would not believe...

 

All solid fuel back boilers should be connected to a natural convection 'heat leak' so when the pump (not if) fails the stove has half a chance of avoiding boiling. Relying on an electric pump for heat distribution is asking for trouble IMO.

 

NOTHING is guaranteed when solid fuel is heating water though....

[bizzard]

I agree. The whistle will only tell you what you already know. The boiler is boiling (last thing you want a boiler to do!) and the thumping noise which will precede the whistle sounding will be so loud you would not believe...

 

All solid fuel back boilers should be connected to a natural convection 'heat leak' so when the pump (not if) fails the stove has half a chance of avoiding boiling. Relying on an electric pump for heat distribution is asking for trouble IMO.

 

NOTHING is guaranteed when solid fuel is heating water though....

Quite so, No fail safe devices on solid fuel stoves ''thermo-couples ect''. That's why i've often mentioned keeping a bag of salt handy to tame and damp the fire down, especially with pumped central heating only. But of course if no ones in when it happens, WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!

Edited September 25, 2012 by bizzard

[ditchcrawler]

Do you have an inverter?If you do you could use a domestic type central heating pump,many of them have variable speed control and are very low wattage.This can be connected to a temp sensor near the stove and will only run at your pre-set temp level.The pump can be plugged into the nearest 240v socket.

This one is between 5 and 25 Watts depending on speed but it will set you back almost £180

 

Now you have the chance of not only the pump, thermostat, batteries failing but also the inverter.

[bowten]

Ah but!If the pump is plumbed in series with a secondary pump all this shock and awe can be averted.Edit to say this was in answer to bizzard.

 

This one is between 5 and 25 Watts depending on speed but it will set you back almost £180

 

Now you have the chance of not only the pump, thermostat, batteries failing but also the inverter.

Good grief I suppose this could happen all at once!Probably the week your lottery comes up.

Edited September 25, 2012 by bowten

[bizzard]

Ah but!If the pump is plumbed in series with a secondary pump all this shock and awe can be averted.Edit to say this was in answer to bizzard.

 

 

Good grief I suppose this could happen all at once!Probably the week your lottery comes up.

I'm working on a fail safe device to avert the shock and awe. A piece of nylon string draped across the flue pipe and up and around pulleys to the roof where its attached to a delicately balanced bag of salt poised over the chimney.

Too hot a flue string melts and parts releasing its grasp on the bag of salt, the contents of which are tipped down the chimney and so extinguishing the stoves firey furnace and water will go off the boil before any shock and awe.

[ditchcrawler]

Ah but!If the pump is plumbed in series with a secondary pump all this shock and awe can be averted.Edit to say this was in answer to bizzard.

 

 

Good grief I suppose this could happen all at once!Probably the week your lottery comes up.

Not all at once, just any one from 4 will give you problems.

 

Personally I would not use a pipe stat as they tend to surge cold water into the boiler, I would use a stat mounted above/behind the shove so the pump runs all the while the fire is alight, or a straight on/off switch so long as you don't forget to switch on when you light the fire

[WJM]

http://www.tnorrismarine.co.uk

 

These guys are well stocked and knowledgable.

[bowten]

Not all at once, just any one from 4 will give you problems.

 

Personally I would not use a pipe stat as they tend to surge cold water into the boiler, I would use a stat mounted above/behind the shove so the pump runs all the while the fire is alight, or a straight on/off switch so long as you don't forget to switch on when you light the fire

I was asked to put an on/off switch on a boat I did some years ago which was fitted with a 240v pump,I then put a warning notice on the fireplace above the stove,LIGHT THE FIRE-SWITCH ON PUMP.This system as worked faultless for them.I don't think they use the warning notice now.

[bizzard]

I was asked to put an on/off switch on a boat I did some years ago which was fitted with a 240v pump,I then put a warning notice on the fireplace above the stove,LIGHT THE FIRE-SWITCH ON PUMP.This system as worked faultless for them.I don't think they use the warning notice now.

But lots of people can't read these days. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!.

[BEngo]

Not all at once, just any one from 4 will give you problems.

 

Personally I would not use a pipe stat as they tend to surge cold water into the boiler, I would use a stat mounted above/behind the shove so the pump runs all the while the fire is alight, or a straight on/off switch so long as you don't forget to switch on when you light the fire

 

 

For 23 years I have had a Squirrel with a pipe stat switched 12V Johnson pump "powering" the CH. (two rads, no calorifier). The pump comes on when the outlet pipe gets to about 50C. I have had no problems with the back boiler. I have worn out two pumps. Most of the time the pump is off the fire runs slowly and the system thermosyphons happily.

I have an ON/OFF switch in parallel with the stat in case I want to force the pump to run (it helps with bleeding air out for example) .

 

 

If the wind gets up and the fire brightens (or I open up the fire for more warmth) then the pump will come on. It's quiet enough that this doesn't wake me (it did at first). By the time the pump comes on the return pipe is warmish from normal circulation so there's not much of a thermal shock.

 

I have boiled the system a number of times- the first time was when a friend lit the fire ro warm things up whilst we were en-route to the boat, but forgot to close the bottom door! That boiled until it melted all the soldered joints within about 3 feet of the stove!! We had a warm boat when we got there. Other events have either been due to runaway up by the fire or most recently to pump failure (to be fair the pump had been making failing noises but the necessary round tuit for replacement was missing) and the noise of it kettling certainly does wake you even if the Death Valley temperatures don't get you up first. Shut the fire spin wheels and it soon calms down though.

 

 

 

N