Fixing wall and ceiling boards

[nickfryer]

Hi all just about to start my fit out to a new shell. Wood battens on, insulation sprayed.

 

Ideas needed for fixing back 9mm faced ply to the walls and 6 mm same to ceiling.

 

It will be screwed and have strips over the joints etc but how do you fix through the decorative finish without fixing showing?

 

Glue, foam, secret fixing, ant ideas please.

 

Thanks. Nick

[John V]

Sikaflex !! only thing I know that lasts longer than a bad smell, though wood to wood, polyurethane glue takes a lot of beating but beware its permanent, personally I used brass c.sunk screws for the trim cos I think they look good

Edited September 23, 2012 by John V

[Higgs]

Hi all just about to start my fit out to a new shell. Wood battens on, insulation sprayed.

 

Ideas needed for fixing back 9mm faced ply to the walls and 6 mm same to ceiling.

 

It will be screwed and have strips over the joints etc but how do you fix through the decorative finish without fixing showing?

 

Glue, foam, secret fixing, ant ideas please.

 

Thanks. Nick

 

 

You use two tools. One creates a hole with coutersink at the bottom and a hole big enough to take a plug. The plug is made with the second tool. If you're using oak, you'd make the cores out of oak. Once you have screwed the piece of trim on, the screw will be set deep in the countersunk hole.

 

The core that you've made should fit nicely into the hole that the screw is set in. Lay the core with the grain to match the trim. It is an almost invisible finish. The set of drill bits are called screw diggers and plug cutting sets. They come as matching sets. Standard sets are for 6's, 8's and 10's screws.

 

Tap the plug into the hole and trim with a good sharp chisel.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Higgs

[RLWP]

If all else fails, use bloody great nails...

 

Richard

[Barry]

You use two tools. One creates a hole with coutersink at the bottom and a hole big enough to take a plug. The plug is made with the second tool. If you're using oak, you'd make the cores out of oak. Once you have screwed the piece of trim on, the screw will be set deep in the countersunk hole.

 

The core that you've made should fit nicely into the hole that the screw is set in. Lay the core with the grain to match the trim. It is an almost invisible finish. The set of drill bits are called screw diggers and plug cutting sets. They come as matching sets. Standard sets are for 6's, 8's and 10's screws.

 

Tap the plug into the hole and trim with a good sharp chisel.

 

Higgs is referring to these screwsinks and these Plug cutters.

 

I bought them recently to fix skirting boards to walls which I then waxed, instead of painting. If you go down this route I would advise holding the drill, for plug cutting, in a stand and having a very sharp chisel to take the protruding plugs back flush. And practise on some offcuts first

[blackrose]

Hi all just about to start my fit out to a new shell. Wood battens on, insulation sprayed.

 

Ideas needed for fixing back 9mm faced ply to the walls and 6 mm same to ceiling.

 

It will be screwed and have strips over the joints etc but how do you fix through the decorative finish without fixing showing?

 

 

Do you mean how do you fix the wooden strips over the joints?

 

I have D section oak strips over the joints which are just pinned on. The pins go slightly below the wood (with a punch) and there's a spot of Brummer over the holes. You can't see the pinholes (unless you look very carefully). If you're talking about bigger pieces of hardwood then I'd use brass screws and wooden plugs.

 

Edited September 23, 2012 by blackrose

[Higgs]

Also... no need to glue the plugs in, better if you don't. If you need to take the plugs out for any reason just screw a screw into the centre of the plug. When the screw reaches the buried screw the plug will lift out. Be careful, the plug will sometimes snag the wood it's set in and lift the edge of the surrounding hole wood.

[Dovetail]

All of the above.

 

As a joiner I would be prepared to use various fixings to achieve what is required, some may just require a simple pin’s others screws and some just glued with pieces of timber wedged across the boat holding the timber in place as a clamp.

[Ally]

Note these plugs & countersinks won't do for ply, it's really too thin...but you only should need to fix the ply at the edges...which will then be under the trim.

[Higgs]

All of the above.

 

As a joiner I would be prepared to use various fixings to achieve what is required, some may just require a simple pin’s others screws and some just glued with pieces of timber wedged across the boat holding the timber in place as a clamp.

 

 

Agreed. If a cosmetic finish is needed, the screw an plug is more time consuming. In it's favour, is if you ever need to dismantle. Glue and pins, slightly more problematic.

 

Drawback - plugs aren't really an option on thin wood.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Higgs

[Danica]

I have faced ply linings with hardwood cover strips. The strips are fixed in place with small pins which are almost invisible unless you go looking for them.

 

But as somebody has already posted, it all depends on what you're using for your decorative strips.

[nickfryer]

Note these plugs & countersinks won't do for ply, it's really too thin...but you only should need to fix the ply at the edges...which will then be under the trim.

I have seen the plug cutters before but I thought they were only used for solid wood?

 

This is 9mm and 6 mm faced ply.

 

Surely they must be pinned in the middle of the board as well as under the trims?

 

Thanks for all the suggestions

 

Nick

[Roger Crown]

I have seen the plug cutters before but I thought they were only used for solid wood?

 

This is 9mm and 6 mm faced ply.

 

Surely they must be pinned in the middle of the board as well as under the trims?

 

Thanks for all the suggestions

 

Nick

Hi Nick

 

Use PU glue, and prop the ply panels in place, using spare lining battens with something on the end to protect the veneer, until the glue sets. You can get the glue with short setting times. Wear gloves it will not come off skin. You will find that secondary fixings by screws or pins are not necessary

Hope this helps

Roger

LINK

Edited September 23, 2012 by Crown Narrowboats Ltd

[Ex- Member]

Note these plugs & countersinks won't do for ply, it's really too thin...but you only should need to fix the ply at the edges...which will then be under the trim.

 

They will for 9mm, but you have to be careful as the plug can only be set in a few mm 4 to 5 at the most then very delicate with a razor sharp chisle or fine tooth Chinese saw. If you use the saw which is much easier you will need to sand the plug a little using a rubbing block and a few strokes should do it. Trimmed accurately with a sharp chisle though is an almost invisible finish.

 

Also when drilling with the screw digger you have to be careful not to accidently go through, I set a mark on the digger to get the right depth and used a battery drill to achieve a lower speed for accuracy. I will say hough you don't need to do this many times, on 8 f/t length panels panelled with Oak I just used 2 screws into the 2 central battens which holds the sheet securly and stops wobbling or bulging.

 

 

 

[Higgs]

I have seen the plug cutters before but I thought they were only used for solid wood?

 

This is 9mm and 6 mm faced ply.

 

Surely they must be pinned in the middle of the board as well as under the trims?

 

Thanks for all the suggestions

 

Nick

 

I'm actually very glad that glue and pins have been used sparingly around my boat. I've been upgrading the insulation and painting the steel and found accessing very convenient.

[Taslim]

Go bold with brass surface cups & countersunk brass screws? This is specially use full if you are using light board or faced ply.

 

As another poster suggested it can look good and you have the advantage that if there is a need to replace /modify wiring or plumbing it's easy access.

 

taslim.

 

Edit to sort poor speelingss.

Edited September 23, 2012 by TASLIM

[Ally]

I don't personally like to see fixings, so I'd stick with the plug option if it were me. A fine flat saw is of help, but I wouldn't use them for ply, as most ply these days is so thinly faced, one wrong stroke and you've wrecked that section of board.

[ditchcrawler]

On Dover they used "Velcro"

[bag 'o' bones]

Personally I like to see the fixings - brass screws indicate a quality fit out and make it possible to alter the boat or access hidden wiring at a later date without having to destroy the linings in the process.

 

Word of advice even if you do opt for a glue and nail approach, at least screw your internal window surrounds (assuming you have clamp in windows)if they a screwed then it will mean in a few years time when you want to repaint the boat you will be able to remove the trims easily to access the window clamps without damaging the veneer. Also at least one of your windows will decide to leak (sods law) so make it easy for yourself.

 

[Ryeland]

Hi Nick

 

Use PU glue, and prop the ply panels in place, using spare lining battens with something on the end to protect the veneer, until the glue sets. You can get the glue with short setting times. Wear gloves it will not come off skin. You will find that secondary fixings by screws or pins are not necessary

Hope this helps

Roger

LINK

Very much agree.

 

Wall panels: Used 5min PU on the centre battens, held in place with temporary props. 3mm screws around the edges, no glue. Light trims also held with 5min PU and temp props. Ceiling panels: 30min PU to give some adjustment time, then screws and trims as walls.

 

It is possible to remove if not too much glue used. Spots are good. Then to remove, a wide flat wallpaper scraper tapped into the joint will break the glue. For centres of panels a long handle for the scraper. Had to do this when cut boat in half and extended it. All panels and trims were reused.

 

Richard

[David Mack]

Go bold with brass surface cups & countersunk brass screws?

To me surface screwcups always look like someone has tried to make the best of a bad job.

 

 

The screwcups are better than surface ones, but please line the slots up. It looks so much neater!