IWA Calls For Action On 'Continuous Moorers'

[nicknorman]

Surely the reason that the historic canal system has been preserved is because they have changed from a transport system to a leisure boating system. Some of this change of use includes boats being moored along the canal side. There are many legitimately moored boats who would resist the idea of being forced into caravan-park style offline marinas.

 

I think your analogy is a bit extreme. More correct would the the comparison with land-based home-dwellers attitude to other people parking their caravans on a remote country lane.

I live near the Cairngorm National Park -quite nice and picturesque. If I see visitors stopped in a layby in their camper van, I really don't mind at all since they are there to enjoy the park. On the other hand if someone set up semi-permanent residence by the road side in a caravan, simply because they could do so cheaply, and not because they had any interest in the park, I would prefer they be moved on, lest the idea spread and the park became over-run with residential caravans occupied by people looking for a cheap way of life with no interest in the great outdoors. Perhaps that makes me an extremist but if so, I am proud of it! However by definition an extremist is someone who doesn't conform to normal ideas, whereas I think my views represent the majority, hence I am not an extremist.

[Lady Muck]

Every time CM'ers are mentioned on here, it more often than not swings back to "london boaters". It then develops into posts quoting rules and regs. Nothing productive or forward looking.

*snip*. What deffinately does not help, is people 1 or 200 miles away who have done a few days at Paddington deciding they have now aquired the knowledge to cast judgement. Whats really funny, is Sally Ash has come on here and asked for any input, yet we still have some shouting about rules and regs. CRT know them! They dont need reminding, they need ideas.

I agree with all of that. you can't compare us with other places on the system. We don't have 48 hour moorings in London, no point in harping on about overstaying on them when they don't exist.

 

If you want to moor in the West End, the visitor moorings are small for the size of the city, just not enough.

We dont have any online towpath permanent moorings so no point harping on about cruisers getting something for nothing - I get a gated mooring with a hook up and a tap, they get nada.

 

The canals ( as regards boat movement and genuine visitors) are very quiet compared to other places I've boated. We've struggled to achieve one locking a day up here this summer and queues at locks are unheard of. We got no hire boats up here, well three day boats in the quiet bit of th river and that's it. Not seen a proper hire boat up here for at least 2 years. Its actually very quiet out of central London. Even without the restrictions it's quiet. The BW figures back this up.

 

As for the caravan analogy, I've got friends who live in a Mercedes sprinter moving around the capital. They did it because they were sick of private sector renting. From what they say there are hundreds doing the same, you just don't notice them as they move every day. You would not know these were live in vehicles - they look like trades vehicles.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Lady Muck

[Tuscan]

Every time CM'ers are mentioned on here, it more often than not swings back to "london boaters". It then develops into posts quoting rules and regs. Nothing productive or forward looking.

Then along come the "why do they get a flake in their ice cream and i dont" whingers.

London is different to anywhere else in the country. Some people in London are working for 15 grand a year or less. You would struggle to get a bedsit in London for that money, and you will still have commute expenses on top of that. There is no social housing, ie council housing. You probably have a better chance of finding a job there, compared to the rest of the uk, but wages can be just as poor in London as outside.

Cheaper option? Possibly buy a boat and shuffle around. This is now becoming a problem. Next step, affordable moorings perhaps, just like affordable housing. Get real, the developing situation (if there really is one) needs to be addressed with thought and consideration. I see no way forward until someone somewhere admits that london needs an affordable mooring strategy for the lower paid and takes action to develop it, whether it be CRT or private enterprise. What deffinately does not help, is people 1 or 200 miles away who have done a few days at Paddington deciding they have now aquired the knowledge to cast judgement. Whats really funny, is Sally Ash has come on here and asked for any input, yet we still have some shouting about rules and regs. CRT know them! They dont need reminding, they need ideas.

 

 

 

Or as an alternative next step , take your boat and move it further north where the cost of living is cheaper, the minimum wage still applies as do the other benefits . London does not have exclusivity on low paid jobs or work generally. You have an advantage over those that can not afford a boat and are not mobile. Why should CRT become a housing association to solve what is a government issue. The canals are a transport based system whether that is leisure or cargo based.

[jelunga]

I too have to agree with Alan,s view, it is not just about canals, it is about life, there are rules and laws which apply for usually good reason and do need to be followed to ensure we ALL can live in a reasonable harmonious way.

If you can't or chose not to obey the rules then be prepared for the consequences, and if you don't agree with the rules then work to get them changed legitimately.

This makes sense. My view is that if you need to stay in or near your place if work or similarand do not wantto pay for a

Mooring, and you feel that breaking the rules and mooring in one place for months on wnd is the answer, it is not. Go find a stationary house fixed near where you work. Do not take the pizzle and live on a houseboat in an unauthorised manner. Why should we subsidise your chosen life stule by allowing you to pay less?

[Cosmic]

Or as an alternative next step , take your boat and move it further north where the cost of living is cheaper, the minimum wage still applies as do the other benefits . London does not have exclusivity on low paid jobs or work generally. You have an advantage over those that can not afford a boat and are not mobile. Why should CRT become a housing association to solve what is a government issue. The canals are a transport based system whether that is leisure or cargo based.

This is a point that many of us made when the legislation setting up the CaRT was going through parliament. BW have always said that they are not a housing association or a housing authority, but the fact is that somebody needs to be. In setting up the CaRT, the government had an opportunity to deal with this but it failed. Instead of creating a body that was capable of dealing with the whole of the canal network, it set up a replacement for BW. So there is still nobody responsible for dealing with the housing needs of people who live on the waterways. It is a long time since the canals were simply a transport system; it's a shame that the body charged with its management wasn't set up to reflect this.

[jenlyn]

Or as an alternative next step , take your boat and move it further north where the cost of living is cheaper, the minimum wage still applies as do the other benefits .

Simply an unrealistic reply. Sorry.

Ive lived in many parts of the uk. I lived in London from 1995 to 2007, it was much much simpler to get a job in London than anywhere else i had lived. I would imagine its much the same now. In fact, i know two boaters in Derby who are moving this way simply because they can't get work up there. As for CRT becoming a housing association, who said they have to. Whats so wrong with affordable moorings? Do you feel people struggling to make ends meet are beneath you?

[Biggles]

Every time CM'ers are mentioned on here, it more often than not swings back to "london boaters". It then develops into posts quoting rules and regs. Nothing productive or forward looking.

Then along come the "why do they get a flake in their ice cream and i dont" whingers.

London is different to anywhere else in the country. Some people in London are working for 15 grand a year or less. You would struggle to get a bedsit in London for that money, and you will still have commute expenses on top of that. There is no social housing, ie council housing. You probably have a better chance of finding a job there, compared to the rest of the uk, but wages can be just as poor in London as outside.

Cheaper option? Possibly buy a boat and shuffle around. This is now becoming a problem. Next step, affordable moorings perhaps, just like affordable housing. Get real, the developing situation (if there really is one) needs to be addressed with thought and consideration. I see no way forward until someone somewhere admits that london needs an affordable mooring strategy for the lower paid and takes action to develop it, whether it be CRT or private enterprise. What deffinately does not help, is people 1 or 200 miles away who have done a few days at Paddington deciding they have now aquired the knowledge to cast judgement. Whats really funny, is Sally Ash has come on here and asked for any input, yet we still have some shouting about rules and regs. CRT know them! They dont need reminding, they need ideas.

 

So squatting on a mooring is legitimate because they can't afford to do otherwise? while others pay for a mooring and then want to occasionally roam when work life comitments permit using their paid for licenence only to find a visitor mooring has been turned into a constant mooring mini estate.

[jenlyn]

So squatting on a mooring is legitimate because they can't afford to do otherwise? while others pay for a mooring and then want to occasionally roam when work life comitments permit using their paid for licenence only to find a visitor mooring has been turned into a constant mooring mini estate.

Have you ever sat down and talked to any of them?

Paid licence? Are you suggesting all these people are on benefits?

If you had spoken to a few, you would probably realise, they pay their own license fees and if they could have a mooring that did'nt take two thirds of their income, they would happily pay to moor.

[Biggles]

Have you ever sat down and talked to any of them?

Paid licence? Are you suggesting all these people are on benefits?

If you had spoken to a few, you would probably realise, they pay their own license fees and if they could have a mooring that did'nt take two thirds of their income, they would happily pay to moor.

 

Not being able to afford a permanate mooring is simply no excuse to flout the rules. I'm sure most if not all of these people a nice genuine people that are doing the best they can to get by, but they do blight many parts of the system for those that are only able to enjoy their boating when work and other life permits.

 

The rules are VERY clear, it's the enforcement that's wooly.

[Tuscan]

Simply an unrealistic reply. Sorry.

Ive lived in many parts of the uk. I lived in London from 1995 to 2007, it was much much simpler to get a job in London than anywhere else i had lived. I would imagine its much the same now. In fact, i know two boaters in Derby who are moving this way simply because they can't get work up there. As for CRT becoming a housing association, who said they have to. Whats so wrong with affordable moorings? Do you feel people struggling to make ends meet are beneath you?

 

 

 

 

Yes simplistic I know , I have lived and worked in London for many years, in the distant past my one room bedsit was certainly cheaper than any boat that I could not have afforded to buy at the time. Like most people I have struggled to make ends meet most of my life, like most people I have also struggled to pay my rent and then my mortgage. When I was lucky enough to own a boat I also had to move out of a marina and found a field mooring that if I went without some other things like beer I could just afford to keep the boat when things were really tough. What I didn't do was break the rules and regulations and expect BW or any other organisation to offer me free or subsidised mooring . It might be simpler to get a job in London but it is and always has been a very expensive place to live. Affordable housing, social mobility, work ethic, social benefits , support for the low paid these are all issues that we as a democracy should decide on and governments should deliver on.

 

I have no issues with creating affordable moorings but what does that mean? Affordable to who? Are we going to means test all boaters when they apply for a license now so that we can decide who is entitled to moor in which area of the country. Perhaps if you earn over a certain level you could be forced only to moor in specially reserved marinas or suitable hot spots.

 

Is the real issue affordable moorings or the creation of more residential moorings within the existing charging framework surely this is what people are crying out for and the decision then is who should pay for their creation, assuming they will require facilities etc etc. If these were created through government funding then presumably housing benefit would apply to those need. So campaign for change. However if this is the answer surely these need to be off line to ensure those of us that wish to cruise and use the existing facilities can continue to do so.

[jenlyn]

Not being able to afford a permanate mooring is simply no excuse to flout the rules. I'm sure most if not all of these people a nice genuine people that are doing the best they can to get by, but they do blight many parts of the system for those that are only able to enjoy their boating when work and other life permits.

 

The rules are VERY clear, it's the enforcement that's wooly.

Thats your best shot? You cant think of anything constructive to put to sally ash other than the present rules and regs? What use is that, as i've said, CRT know them, they dont need reminding.

 

Yes simplistic I know , I have lived and worked in London for many years, in the distant past my one room bedsit was certainly cheaper than any boat that I could not have afforded to buy at the time. Like most people I have struggled to make ends meet most of my life, like most people I have also struggled to pay my rent and then my mortgage. When I was lucky enough to own a boat I also had to move out of a marina and found a field mooring that if I went without some other things like beer I could just afford to keep the boat when things were really tough. What I didn't do was break the rules and regulations and expect BW or any other organisation to offer me free or subsidised mooring . It might be simpler to get a job in London but it is and always has been a very expensive place to live. Affordable housing, social mobility, work ethic, social benefits , support for the low paid these are all issues that we as a democracy should decide on and governments should deliver on.

 

I have no issues with creating affordable moorings but what does that mean? Affordable to who? Are we going to means test all boaters when they apply for a license now so that we can decide who is entitled to moor in which area of the country. Perhaps if you earn over a certain level you could be forced only to moor in specially reserved marinas or suitable hot spots.

 

Is the real issue affordable moorings or the creation of more residential moorings within the existing charging framework surely this is what people are crying out for and the decision then is who should pay for their creation, assuming they will require facilities etc etc. If these were created through government funding then presumably housing benefit would apply to those need. So campaign for change. However if this is the answer surely these need to be off line to ensure those of us that wish to cruise and use the existing facilities can continue to do so.

These are issues and questions that are being put forward by CRT and London boaters. I have no intention of digging through posts that aptly answer your questions above, some of the answers to your concerns however, are on this forum .

[Biggles]

What is the point of this debate any way? Nothing will change. The rules will get broken, the situation will get ever worse, CaRT will have the same pair of inherited balls.

[Tuscan]

What is the point of this debate any way? Nothing will change. The rules will get broken, the situation will get ever worse, CaRT will have the same pair of inherited balls.

 

Unfortunately you are probably right, I'm done.

 

Good night

[jenlyn]

What is the point of this debate any way? Nothing will change. The rules will get broken, the situation will get ever worse, CaRT will have the same pair of inherited balls.

So post to Sally Ash, airing your views and put forward some suggestions. Let me give you fair warning though, this issue is far more complex than it seems. When or if, she chooses to explain it to you, i suspect you will struggle to come up with a way forward, just as they are. Ask her why they cant enforce those "CLEAR" rules and regs.

[luctor et emergo]

My experience ( once again, I travel the stretch that I talk about on a very regular basis, unlike most who comment on it ), of the Western End of the K&A is that it is busy, yes, but at the same time, there is plenty of room to moor, almost everywhere. It is very rare, that I can not moor at one of the convinient spots, such as Bathampton, Dundas, Avoncliff, Smelly Bridge or Bradford on Avon. Then there are the intermitent, but still very convinient spots, such as B'ampton swingbridge, Sunset Strip, Limpley Stoke Bridge, and Claverton which almost always have spaces available.

The regulars tend to move, and stay out of harms way. The enforcment team do a good job keeping things moving. There is a small core of persistant 'overstayers', who will stay on short term moorings, but they are a small minority, and to sweep all the other up with them, is not fair.

 

Bonafide navigation means simply moving your boat from one point, to another, with the intent to travel with that boat. It does not imply a direction, or a set distance. There is nothing in the rules, as they are written, that stop one from navigating up and down a certain stretch of the canal. Going from one end of your choosen stretch, to the other, and back again, is still progressive, because you are moving. Progress means movement in itself, again not indicating a direction.

 

I do hope that those with expensive home moorings, who take their boats out only once in a while, and who so vehemently campaign against the "freeloading CM'rs", realise that once they have rid the canal of those "freeloaders", the shortfall in licence money will have to be found elsewhere. I wonder how you like it when your licence, or mooring fee doubles?.

Ohh, you probably won't mind, because if you can't afford it, you will simply give up. After all, those who can't afford a mooring, shouldn't be on the canal...

 

As an aside, I don't feel at all positive about the future of boating on the canal, at the moment. I get the distinct impression, that boats, and navigation, have all but forgotten by C&RT, because the prospect of running a park, without the cumbersome affair of locks and water levels to maintain, is so much more pleasing. Once we are all parked in marinas, there will be no need to maintain the level and locks.

We should all be standing together, to save the canal as we know it. And liveaboard, towpath dwellers, have an important part to play. They can be the eyes and ears that keep the canal save, most keep their stretch kleen and pleasant, because it's where they live...

 

At the moment, IWA is playing the 'devide and conquer' card, on behalve of C&RT. After all, thats what they were "voted" onto the council for...

 

Hang on, there's a knock on the do....

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

 

What will happen eventually will be a precident set by the CM's so that others that pay for a marina, licience, insurance, BSS etc. will simply follow suit. The real problem is that BW never nipped it in the bud, had they then many CM's that have no interest in boats, boating, waterways or the lifestyle would not have had the oppertunity to set up home in a boat as a cheap rent free, rates free way.

 

 

 

Same old thing then I pay for something so everyone else should!!! hey I have not paid for a mooring for 6 years now. What evidence do you have that boaters in Marinas are the only ones that pay for Insurance, BSS and Licence?

I know plenty of boaters that can not afford a mooring but do love the waterways etc. Is interest of the waterways the exclusive right of those that pay for a mooring?

 

Every time CM'ers are mentioned on here, it more often than not swings back to "london boaters". It then develops into posts quoting rules and regs. Nothing productive or forward looking.

Then along come the "why do they get a flake in their ice cream and i dont" whingers.

London is different to anywhere else in the country. Some people in London are working for 15 grand a year or less. You would struggle to get a bedsit in London for that money, and you will still have commute expenses on top of that. There is no social housing, ie council housing. You probably have a better chance of finding a job there, compared to the rest of the uk, but wages can be just as poor in London as outside.

Cheaper option? Possibly buy a boat and shuffle around. This is now becoming a problem. Next step, affordable moorings perhaps, just like affordable housing. Get real, the developing situation (if there really is one) needs to be addressed with thought and consideration. I see no way forward until someone somewhere admits that london needs an affordable mooring strategy for the lower paid and takes action to develop it, whether it be CRT or private enterprise. What deffinately does not help, is people 1 or 200 miles away who have done a few days at Paddington deciding they have now aquired the knowledge to cast judgement. Whats really funny, is Sally Ash has come on here and asked for any input, yet we still have some shouting about rules and regs. CRT know them! They dont need reminding, they need ideas.

 

Well said that man

 

 

So squatting on a mooring is legitimate because they can't afford to do otherwise? while others pay for a mooring and then want to occasionally roam when work life comitments permit using their paid for licenence only to find a visitor mooring has been turned into a constant mooring mini estate.

 

How does someone that only pops out of their paid for mooring every now and again know who is on a visitor mooring?

 

 

 

[Biggles]

Same old thing then I pay for something so everyone else should!!! hey I have not paid for a mooring for 6 years now. What evidence do you have that boaters in Marinas are the only ones that pay for Insurance, BSS and Licence?

I know plenty of boaters that can not afford a mooring but do love the waterways etc. Is interest of the waterways the exclusive right of those that pay for a mooring?

 

 

 

Well said that man

 

 

 

 

How does someone that only pops out of their paid for mooring every now and again know who is on a visitor mooring?

 

Well for a start in a marina you have to provide evidence of BSS and Insurance, but I accept there are ways around getting an insurance certificate. It is an assumption that those flouting the rules in one area will have no issue in flouting other rules. I wonder if you as a traffic cop how often a car pulled over for no tax disc is also not MOT'd and insured or that the driver even has a licence.

 

As for occasional outings. Well that one is blindingly obvious because on the odd occasion that a boater does get out, the same boats are always where they were. And remember a boat that doesn't move has very clear tell tail signs at the waterline and below.

[Guest]

People need shelter. Today squatting will be outlawed. Even in skanky old Tottenham you will pay about £1000 a month for a flat, in a very rough area, but like the rest of us you stay in the capital because you can get work here, even in a recession.

 

I hear the argument, 'oh but I would LOVE to live in Alderley Edge but I can't afford to.' Go on, ask most Tottenham residents if they want to live in Tottenham.

 

If you want to try renting private sector in the capital if you've no prior references or you're self employed, then good luck to you. If you're really lucky you might manage two years, before the landlord sells, then you have to move on again. That's no way to live. done it, bought the t shirt.

 

If you want a council flat, then the waiting list here was 880,000 two years ago, who knows what it is now?

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/national-housing-federation/article/nhf-social-housing-waiting-lists-rise-in-22-london-boroughs-

 

It's the main reason I'm on a boat. Call me a freeloader, whatever you like. I do not care. I pay my taxes.

 

I await the increase in squat camps, tents, houses made out of pallets, in trees, in burnt out old pubs, in the space under the flyover, (as if we haven't got enough of that here in the first place).

 

All this moaning about Cmers will not change anything, I've got a better idea, you are barking up the wrong tree. How about we lobby the goverment for something radical like they have in Germany, you know fixed rents, longer tenancies, then we might be onto something.

 

You're getting angry at the wrong people - housing should be about shelter, not making an investment or a profit, we've made a right mess of things here in the UK.

I'm so glad that somebody agrees with me.

 

My daughter (who lives in Cologne) would agree about the renting system etc. in Germany. We are being screwed over.

[Cosmic]

Have you ever sat down and talked to any of them?

Yes, it's easy to be annoyed about a boat that appears to be breaking the rules because it's not a human being. But when you know the person inside it, things get more difficult. When you find out their circumstances, they are often miraculously transformed from freeloading scumbags into people struggling with circumstances that make Section 17 seem trivial by comparison.

Paid licence? Are you suggesting all these people are on benefits?

If you had spoken to a few, you would probably realise, they pay their own license fees and if they could have a mooring that did'nt take two thirds of their income, they would happily pay to moor.

This covers at least two of the people moored near me at the moment, neither of whom is the "benefit scrounger" type. Both are struggling with their licence fees, being stung by late payment charges, bank charges etc. as a result. But, because they don't have laptops, broadband and the time I've got, they won't have seen the thread on here that would have allowed them both to prove that this is payable under Housing Benefit. Perhaps I should be having a word...

[alan_fincher]

Well for a start in a marina you have to provide evidence of BSS and Insurance, but I accept there are ways around getting an insurance certificate. It is an assumption that those flouting the rules in one area will have no issue in flouting other rules. I wonder if you as a traffic cop how often a car pulled over for no tax disc is also not MOT'd and insured or that the driver even has a licence.

I think you are making a lot of (almost cerytainly wrong) assumptions.

 

You can't get a BW/CaRT licence without providing evidence of both Insurance and BSS certification, and I genuinely believe that the vast majority of boats that we seem to be talking about, (in the South East and London Area at least) are actually fully licensed.

 

People may not be happy with the fact that the owners are allowed to declare no home mooring, but apparently still move very little, that is a different issue, but clearly in the vast majority of cases BW/CaRT have decided to accept their declaration, as I would say most display current licences, clearly showing the coding that says they have no home mooring. (I remember when this came up before making a point of looking on my local patch when dog walking - of the 20 or so boats moored up there, only one wasn't displaying a licences, and only one of those that was had a home mooring shown on it).

 

So, if they have a licence, can you not accept they are at least "legal" in terms of BSS and insurance ?

 

IMO it would be better to isolate the "no home mooring"/"continuous cruiser"/"continuous moorer" debate from assumptions about other aspects of the boats "legality". Based on my own experiences, I am perfectly prepared to accept that all but a relatively small percentage are licensed. It is wrong to assume that because it may look like they are not spending a lot of money on a boat, that that extends to not licensing it.

[Cosmic]

I've only seen this once, but there was a boat in London that wasn't displaying a licence. BW had put a black and yellow sticker, the same size as the licence, on the window, saying (approximately) "Dear boater, we know that this vessel is licensed until <MM/YY>. Please stop wasting our resources by displaying your licence - we've got better things to do."

Edited September 1, 2012 by Cosmic

[Biggles]

I think you are making a lot of (almost cerytainly wrong) assumptions.

 

You can't get a BW/CaRT licence without providing evidence of both Insurance and BSS certification, and I genuinely believe that the vast majority of boats that we seem to be talking about, (in the South East and London Area at least) are actually fully licensed.

 

People may not be happy with the fact that the owners are allowed to declare no home mooring, but apparently still move very little, that is a different issue, but clearly in the vast majority of cases BW/CaRT have decided to accept their declaration, as I would say most display current licences, clearly showing the coding that says they have no home mooring. (I remember when this came up before making a point of looking on my local patch when dog walking - of the 20 or so boats moored up there, only one wasn't displaying a licences, and only one of those that was had a home mooring shown on it).

 

So, if they have a licence, can you not accept they are at least "legal" in terms of BSS and insurance ?

 

IMO it would be better to isolate the "no home mooring"/"continuous cruiser"/"continuous moorer" debate from assumptions about other aspects of the boats "legality". Based on my own experiences, I am perfectly prepared to accept that all but a relatively small percentage are licensed. It is wrong to assume that because it may look like they are not spending a lot of money on a boat, that that extends to not licensing it.

 

I do as it happens accept that the majority of CM do have a CC licence and have the necessary paperwork to get it. However they are not sticking to the terms of that licence. As for the 1 in 20 you have seen not displaying, that's 5% !!!

 

The bottom line as I see it is CMin g on a CC licence is wrong, plain and simple and CaRT should make it a priority to fix, otherwise the situation will get worse.

[Ally]

Alan, Cotswoldman, Cosmic, and Jenlyn...I would like to have awarded you some greenies for some of your posts here but have sadly run out! *frustrated*

Agreed the issue is very much being confused with 'legality' issues,....these are two separate issues and I also see in this area that the few 'CM'ers' are all legal so far as licencing goes. I still feel that the majority of the whinging is coming from those that have the means to live in a house and afford a nice boat on an expensive mooring, and venture out a few times a year...that does not make them better boaty folk than those of us with lesser means, who live aboard, and perhaps have a few bumps on our boats, and who struggle with paying for everything.

We love our boat, and very lovely she is too....even if not fully fitted yet....we love living aboard, and support local and national waterways in several ways. We cruise when we can, we are legal. We are not alone in this.

To remove those who struggle but use the waterways, will produce a higher level of homelessness.....it's a bit of the old...'if they can't afford bread let them eat cake' situation. How could such people possibly afford housing if not boating....unless of course they go to benefits. Many of us don't WANT to go on benefits, and prefer to make ends meet in lesser ways, than state scrounging. Is that wrong? Would you rather we all just gave up keeping our boats moving, adding to the C&RT money pots, keeping the waterways open, out of our own pockets, and moved back on land to live off the state, so the richer folk can moor with ease every fourth weekend of the summer?

Sorry, I know I am putting forward an extreme picture that is not wholly the case, but that is how it feels that some would like it, and that, along with not enough greeny options, is quite frustrating.

As has been said, presumptions are made (and I have also been guilty of this) but if you actually stop and meet and share time with people on the cut, you become very much more aware that there are some lovely people out here, who would share their last teabag with you, who are legally on the water, and doing everything they can to stay afloat under their own means....and who care very much about our wonderful waterways, and add to it's operation.

Of course there are a few of the other types aswell!

[alan_fincher]

As for the 1 in 20 you have seen not displaying, that's 5% !!!

Which given the sample size, is as close as you are going to match BW's claimed figures for license evasion generally!

 

Of course non display of a license, or display of an old one, does not mean the owner is not in possession of a current one. I had Chalice's new license in an envelope here for in excess of a month before I next visited the boat, and I'm sure this is not uncommon. Postal arrangements for someone declaring "no home mooring" may make it difficult for them to actually collect theirs in a timely manner of course, if it has been delivered to a not particularly convenient land based address.

[Higgs]

Simply an unrealistic reply. Sorry.

Ive lived in many parts of the uk. I lived in London from 1995 to 2007, it was much much simpler to get a job in London than anywhere else i had lived. I would imagine its much the same now. In fact, i know two boaters in Derby who are moving this way simply because they can't get work up there. As for CRT becoming a housing association, who said they have to. Whats so wrong with affordable moorings? Do you feel people struggling to make ends meet are beneath you?

 

Jenlyn, I'm on benefits and living on 'social mooring' (HB) and trying to sort work out. Derby/Willington. As far as money goes, I'm in church mouse territory. So you know where I'm coming from.

 

I keep hearing about affordable mooring. Not quite sure how that could be defined, unless possibly something along the lines of the Irish plan to allow permission to remain at a towpath position, for a small sum of money above licence fee.

 

However, on the other side of the argument; two people you know are heading for London. This is not going to improve the mooring problem. Leaving one area to find work in another is something I'm very used to. Being able to take your home with you is a bonus. I've slept in some pretty dire places before eventually getting sorted.

 

People living in houses have the same problems, finding work. A common route is; find job in other area and then find accommodation. Boaters, finding work in London and no mooring should at least be prepared to plan around the need to follow guidelines. Until a solution is found, the visiting boating community still exist in the sense of just visiting cruising.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Higgs