IWA Calls For Action On 'Continuous Moorers'

[Leni]

Funny but I was only thinking about this sort 'lending out' of a mooring today as I drove home from work. CRT specifically forbid this IIRC, assuming yours is a CRT mooring. Seems perverse to me.

 

MtB

It's not completely forbidden. I have just 'won' a CRT mooring so I have just been re-reading the 'Mooring Agreement Terms and Conditions' and under General Conditions point 3 it says, "The right to use the mooring is personal to you and you may not assign it to any person. You may allow another person to use the mooring for short periods but only with our permisssion which shall not be unreasonably withheld." (my bold) So now we just need someone to test what is and is not 'unreasonable'

Edited April 25, 2013 by Leni

[Chris Pink]

Passing lightly over your use of the word 'won' - a strange variation of 'paid through the nose for', DeanS is in a marina and will have a different deal.

[Tuscan]

It's not completely forbidden. I have just 'won' a CRT mooring so I have just been re-reading the 'Mooring Agreement Terms and Conditions' and under General Conditions point 3 it says, "The right to use the mooring is personal to you and you may not assign it to any person. You may allow another person to use the mooring for short periods but only with our permisssion which shall not be unreasonably withheld." (my bold) So now we just need someone to test what is and is not 'unreasonable'

 

I am aware of two recent cases where a CC'er was given permission by both the renter of the mooring and CRT to make use of a CRT mooring in both cases the mooring owners boat was away for several months having work done.

[Leni]

Passing lightly over your use of the word 'won' - a strange variation of 'paid through the nose for', DeanS is in a marina and will have a different deal.

Ah, sorry, I didn't realise the conditions in a marina mooring were different

 

Yes, I use the word 'won' because there was a bidding 'war', and yes, 'paid through the nose' would be more appropriate!

[bowten]

It is quite possible for CRT to allow the use of an end of garden mooring or a CRT long term mooring by another boat.CRT need to be informed but this is usually just a formality.

[Guest]

It is quite possible for CRT to allow the use of an end of garden mooring or a CRT long term mooring by another boat.CRT need to be informed but this is usually just a formality.

 

We were once kindly offered the temp. loan of a CRT LTM by another forum member - he had spoken to the local CRT guy about us potentially using it for a couple of nights and they had no problem. We didn't in the end need it but it didn't seem to be a problem.

 

Reading the T&C's of our CRT LTM it reads as it's not strictly allowed but I think if people are up front and sensible about it and speak to CRT there should be no real problem I would say too.

[Lady Muck]

no comment to Lady Muck, anything I say concerning the trimming of a certain bush might land me in trouble...

That's garden and not Ladygarden!

[Mike Todd]

It is a good legal phrase that has stood the test of time. It prevents someone just saying 'no' without giving their reasons. Those reasons then have to stand a 'reasonableness' test in court. Generally, courts are pretty good at making such judgements such that it generally deters unreasonable behaviour in contract situations. In this case I guess they would have to have pretty strong reasons for not giving permission but the clause does mean that CRT's right to determine who may moor and where (essential in the long term to effective control and the prevention of anarchy) is sustained. For example, they might well refuse permission for a wide beam boat on a mooring only fit for a narrow beam.

It's not completely forbidden. I have just 'won' a CRT mooring so I have just been re-reading the 'Mooring Agreement Terms and Conditions' and under General Conditions point 3 it says, "The right to use the mooring is personal to you and you may not assign it to any person. You may allow another person to use the mooring for short periods but only with our permisssion which shall not be unreasonably withheld." (my bold) So now we just need someone to test what is and is not 'unreasonable'

[carlt]

I don't want to start an argument but Carlt categorically states they have no powers to withhold a license.

No I didn't.

 

I said that they are not entitled to withhold a licence because of other outstanding debts (legitimate or otherwise).

 

The relevant legislation states quite clearly under what circumstances they are empowered to refuse a renewal and even quoted it.

[Doorman]

 

We were once kindly offered the temp. loan of a CRT LTM by another forum member - he had spoken to the local CRT guy about us potentially using it for a couple of nights and they had no problem. We didn't in the end need it but it didn't seem to be a problem.

 

Reading the T&C's of our CRT LTM it reads as it's not strictly allowed but I think if people are up front and sensible about it and speak to CRT there should be no real problem I would say too.

We have had the benefit of someone else's linear mooring and did so with CRT's blessing. We were up front and corresponded with our regional mooring officer and he advised the 'tenant' to put our request in writing and he would consider it. We were granted permission to stay occasionally but for no more than 43 days. That term length was apportioned by the senior mooring manager and abided by us.

 

In return, we brought the neglected mooring to its former glory and it allowed us to sample life away from the marina and online. Our conclusion was that we preferred to be online and ended up successfully bidding for another berth a few boats along the mooring space.

 

During the ongoing discussions we were kept informed by email from the regional manager and believed that we were treated fairly by CRT. In contrast, one of our friends who is a CC'r and has pushed his luck on several occasions -one of which where he verbally abused the enforcement officer for doing her job- has been pursued relentlessly to conform and pay for winter moorings.

 

Somewhere amongst this tale of two boaters, is a moral.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Doorman

[Chop!]

It's simple. Fit a tracking device, make it conditional on the CC licence. No tracker, no licence. A simple tracking recorder not transmitter that can be read if it's suspected someone is not using the CC licence properly.

 

Tin hat, coat and popcorn at the ready.

Sounds a bit 'Biggles brother' to me!