CO whilst Charging batteries ?

[Tony Brooks]

The beginning of this thread started with my concerns that my CO meter was giving a reading when the batteries were on charge. I've been looking around for information and have some that might put these readings in perspective.

 

 

A reading of 40 on the CO meter is equivalent to 1000ppm ( parts per million ) of hydrogen.

 

My meter was reading over 100, over the batteries = 2000ppm of hydrogen.

 

40000ppm of hydrogen is an explosive level.

 

 

I very much doubt it was hydrogen being measured, I am sure it was hydrogen sulphide otherwise you would have got a reading in the latter stages of charging good batteries. I think yous aid the old battery smelt when on charge and that kind of proves it.

[Higgs]

I very much doubt it was hydrogen being measured, I am sure it was hydrogen sulphide otherwise you would have got a reading in the latter stages of charging good batteries. I think yous aid the old battery smelt when on charge and that kind of proves it.

 

I don't have a complete picture. I know that CO meters can react to hydrogen (internet info). Hydrogen sulphide smells of bad eggs.

 

The bad cell was causing over production of gas. Today I'm going to top up the charge on two good batteries and see what the meter does.

 

Sealed batteries are the best for salt water environments. Salt plus batteries (electrolyte) equals Chlorine gas. Deadly.

 

The squirrel has been out for a few days now and can be ruled out.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Higgs

[bizzard]

I don't have a complete picture. I know that CO meters can react to hydrogen (internet info). Hydrogen sulphide smells of bad eggs.

 

The bad cell was causing over production of gas. Today I'm going to top up the charge on two good batteries and see what the meter does.

 

Sealed batteries are the best for salt water environments. Salt plus batteries (electrolyte) equals Chlorine gas. Deadly.

 

The squirrel has been out for a few days now and can be ruled out.

Have YOU been eating too many eggs!

[Higgs]

Have YOU been eating too many eggs!

 

 

If only. It would explain a few things.

 

 

I once dropped a stink bomb down the stair well at Ranby's when I was a kid. Like a twit, I ran down to check the damage and pong. Seconds later I could feel a tug on my ear, and it was up to the office for a good telling off.

[WotEver]

I've no experience with the demands of an inverter of that size.

Whatever you do, don't use it to allow the washing machine heat the water. A 3kW load is around 300A at 12V, so with 4 110Ah batteries they'll be flat in around 30 minutes.

 

Tony

[Higgs]

Whatever you do, don't use it to allow the washing machine heat the water. A 3kW load is around 300A at 12V, so with 4 110Ah batteries they'll be flat in around 30 minutes.

 

Tony

 

It would be a bit of a load, heating water. The washing machine is a Zanussi Studio. I'll probably be better off feeding the initial fill-up from the hot water supply, then switching to the cold for rinses.

[OptedOut]

Stolen from elsewhere.

 

"He covered the NUMEROUS "contaminants" and "interference gasses" that will give our meters false readings in detail; and yes, the gasses (H2) given off by an automotive battery charger will activate a residential carbon monoxide detector and give our handhelds fits. If anyone is intrested; the EMT Center CO Course info/applications are available from: Bergen County EMS Training Center at East 281 Pascack Road in Paramus, NJ 07652 (201) 967-0751."

[BenC]

We have run a washing machine for years through our 3kw Victron from 3 x 100amp hour batteries, but the inverter does call for additional power (we use a 2kw Honda) or will go into overload.

We live on a butty so are unable to run an engine at the same time, maybe if you do this you will be ok.

We also have 2 battery banks, one always fully charged in reserve so that if you find yourself outside of houses or near other boats late at night, you can switch over and deal with recharging in the morning at a more sociable hour.

Batteries fetch about £8 at the moment at the scrap yard

[Higgs]

We have run a washing machine for years through our 3kw Victron from 3 x 100amp hour batteries, but the inverter does call for additional power (we use a 2kw Honda) or will go into overload.

We live on a butty so are unable to run an engine at the same time, maybe if you do this you will be ok.

We also have 2 battery banks, one always fully charged in reserve so that if you find yourself outside of houses or near other boats late at night, you can switch over and deal with recharging in the morning at a more sociable hour.

Batteries fetch about £8 at the moment at the scrap yard

 

Thanks for the info. Will bear it in mind. I do have a 1.9kw Honda as well. I also have another lump of a generator in the form of a Redi-Line 1.6kw.

 

Lots of DIY jobs for the year. Have to get the Boat Safety out of the way first. End of may.

[Phil Ambrose]

While you are at it, do away with the crocodile clips and hard wire the charger into the bank.

 

Phil

[Higgs]

While you are at it, do away with the crocodile clips and hard wire the charger into the bank.

 

Phil

 

 

Good advice I think. Croc clips - heating, partly due to the lack of good connection trying to pass high charger current.

[Odana]

Dragging up an old thread here, but my CO alarm has just gone off in the bedroom. Have opened back doors now and put a meter by the vents to battery boxes, and the readings are showing CO. I plugged into a shoreline earlier to give batteries a good charge - this is the only thing on boat that could possibly be producing gas right now. And a few weeks ago I noticed the eggy smell once or twice when on charge, so I suspect a dodgy battery.

 

Main question for tonight is.... Am I safe to go to sleep? The rest of this thread indicates the alarm is unlikely to be a CO trigger but hydrogen sulphide? I can leave back doors ajar and close off from bedroom to back cabin. But obviously waking up dead would ruin my day and having lost a relative to CO I am paranoid.

 

 

Lesser question - we can't realistically start replacing batteries etc till we are back from our cruise in late July. Are there fire risks from dodgy battery for now? We will be charging from engine most of time - I just thought an overnightlandline charge would be good as I'm in a marina today - I have the opportunity to leave it on charge for a few days next week when I am not always on the boat, but don't want to take risks...

[Phil Ambrose]

Read the thread "My Battery Exploded" I for my part would be concerned about smelling Hydrogen Sulphide and this gas will also kill you if you inhale enough.

Phil

[blackrose]

he may have been thinking of the explosion risk - that can kill you too !!

 

Nick

Yes but hydrogen will have to reach a concentration of over 4% in the air before it becomes explosive, whereas I believe the toxicity of CO is at much lower concentrations in air. So in that sense CO is much deadlier. On the other hand, I suppose if a big hydrogen explosion killed scores of people then that would be more lethal,

 

...The croc clips to the terminals have been getting hot...

Why are you using croc clips? I thought they were only suitable for small chargers and not on boats. Why not connect the charger properly?

Edited June 27, 2014 by blackrose

[Theo]

It would be a bit of a load, heating water. The washing machine is a Zanussi Studio. I'll probably be better off feeding the initial fill-up from the hot water supply, then switching to the cold for rinses.

That's the way to go. We do that and all is very fine.

 

N

[FidoDido]

Is it possible your CO detector is registering Hydrogen? By far the likeliest gas to be produced by overcharging if there's still water/acid in the cells. Isn't Sulphur Dioxide the chemial responsible for that rotten egg smell?

Hydrogen sulfide is the rotten egg smell. And it's more toxic than hydrogen cyanide..

 

Sulfur dioxide is also not good for you, but has less of a smell, and will make you choke, effecting the back of your throat.

It would be a bit of a load, heating water. The washing machine is a Zanussi Studio. I'll probably be better off feeding the initial fill-up from the hot water supply, then switching to the cold for rinses.

I put a load of warm water in the drum when I put the clothes in. Just top it up to the bottom of the hole. The washing machine then detects the level and temp and goes straight to the wash, so no large heater draw on the batteries. Edited June 27, 2014 by FidoDido

[bizzard]

Dragging up an old thread here, but my CO alarm has just gone off in the bedroom. Have opened back doors now and put a meter by the vents to battery boxes, and the readings are showing CO. I plugged into a shoreline earlier to give batteries a good charge - this is the only thing on boat that could possibly be producing gas right now. And a few weeks ago I noticed the eggy smell once or twice when on charge, so I suspect a dodgy battery.

 

Main question for tonight is.... Am I safe to go to sleep? The rest of this thread indicates the alarm is unlikely to be a CO trigger but hydrogen sulphide? I can leave back doors ajar and close off from bedroom to back cabin. But obviously waking up dead would ruin my day and having lost a relative to CO I am paranoid.

 

 

Lesser question - we can't realistically start replacing batteries etc till we are back from our cruise in late July. Are there fire risks from dodgy battery for now? We will be charging from engine most of time - I just thought an overnightlandline charge would be good as I'm in a marina today - I have the opportunity to leave it on charge for a few days next week when I am not always on the boat, but don't want to take risks...

Look at the batteries and sniff each one. If one of them is wet or damp on top then a cell has probably died and has boiled over. You could take the battery filler tops off, put them on charge briefly, wear specs and watch if any cell-cells boils quickly to confirm this. If so disconnect that battery completely and bypass it. Or a hydrometer test would also confirm this by low or zero reading and sucking up black tinted electrolite.

[smileypete]

Dragging up an old thread here, but my CO alarm has just gone off in the bedroom. Have opened back doors now and put a meter by the vents to battery boxes, and the readings are showing CO. I plugged into a shoreline earlier to give batteries a good charge - this is the only thing on boat that could possibly be producing gas right now. And a few weeks ago I noticed the eggy smell once or twice when on charge, so I suspect a dodgy battery.

 

Main question for tonight is.... Am I safe to go to sleep? The rest of this thread indicates the alarm is unlikely to be a CO trigger but hydrogen sulphide? I can leave back doors ajar and close off from bedroom to back cabin. But obviously waking up dead would ruin my day and having lost a relative to CO I am paranoid.

 

 

Lesser question - we can't realistically start replacing batteries etc till we are back from our cruise in late July. Are there fire risks from dodgy battery for now? We will be charging from engine most of time - I just thought an overnightlandline charge would be good as I'm in a marina today - I have the opportunity to leave it on charge for a few days next week when I am not always on the boat, but don't want to take risks...

 

Good way to do it is check the charge current with a DC clamp ammeter and go from there.

 

The charge current should drop back to a very low level when the batts are fully charged, if it stays at an elevated level there IS a problem somewhere.

 

The topic Phil mentioned is well worth a look, this post in it explains a bit about charge voltages and charge currents:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67670#entry1339171

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67670

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited June 27, 2014 by smileypete

[by'eck]

Only slightly off topic I was surprised by the following findings the other day.

 

The batteries were being charged by a Kipor IG2600 inverter/generator with propane conversion. It was situated in the open well deck with the front doors closed, whilst I beavered away polishing mushroom vents on the roof. After a while I heard what sounded like the alarm of a truck backing up. As it persisted I went to investigate and found it was the CO alarm sounding (for the first time) whilst located in the boats saloon. After cancelling I took it to the far end of the 60 foot boat. Shortly afterwards it went off again and only stopped when I cancelled and left it outside.

 

Lesson learnt: Don't underestimate the CO that can creep into a boat even from a propane powered genny running outside and through closed doors.

[smileypete]

Oh another thing, if they're non-sealed/open batts, check they're topped up to the correct level. If you're not completely sure it probably deserves starting a new topic of it's own.

 

You could turn off the charger when away or asleep if you like, but that's in no way a substitute for a proper diagnosis of any problems.

 

ETA: Odana didn't you buy a PRV with gauge for your plumbing a while back and find it helpful? A DC clamp ammeter that lets you monitor charge voltage and current for your batts could be similarly helpful.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited June 27, 2014 by smileypete