The Canals Are Alive

[Doorman]

Doorman was lamenting the dayboats from Norbury being let loose with too many people on them and too many beers.

 

I was pointing out that Norbury have acquired another dayboat over the winter so there will be more opportunities to meet one in the narrows of Woodseaves cutting than ever before.

 

Nothing more than that. Perhaps, I've been lucky but my last two encounters with day boats both involved them pulling to one side and waving me through. They could easily have out run me but chose not to.

 

On our last cruise through the cuttings, last summer, we encountered several boats on our way down south and as we were on the tow path side of the cut, we would hug the bank to enable north bound boats a wider and safer passage. All but one of the boats, including a working boat that was single handed with a small lady at the helm and a hire boat, passed us slowly and acknowledged our maneouvre.

 

Sadly though, the exception was a smart Alec 'Rodney' who ploughed through regardless and caused us to be grounded!

Edited April 6, 2012 by Doorman

[bowten]

That's possibly so. But even if we do acknowledge the debt we all owe to the hire fleet operators for perpetuating our national heritage, it does not mean that we should ignore the fact that some of the present day operators are guilty of gross negligence when it comes to boat handling and safety advice to their clients.

 

With regard to drunks being in charge of hire boats, try taking a day out at Norbury Junction on the Shropshire Union Canal in the summer, when the day boats are let loose! Not only are they overcrowded, but the amount of beer that we've witnessed being loaded aboard doesn't indicate that they're starting a local delivery round for other boaters.

 

Surely, when the boats are presented to the hirers, the operator must be aware of the alcohol being taken along for the journey and therefore become culpable should an accident occur?

I agree,being moored in Skipton can be hazardous.Having had my boats hit on numerous occasions I never look forward to the silly season.Drunks,foul mouthed yoofs and arrogant crews and thats just the marina and fine weather boat owners.The hire companies have alot to answer for,do they actually spend any time giving instruction to the crews of these boats.I was hit yesterday by a wide beam hire boat and several years ago had to be craned out to repair the rudder and skeg,hire boat again.Sorry to piss on yer parade but I thought your thread was a dream,one that I cannot share I'm afraid.

[Grace and Favour]

I agree,being moored in Skipton can be hazardous.Having had my boats hit on numerous occasions I never look forward to the silly season.Drunks,foul mouthed yoofs and arrogant crews and thats just the marina and fine weather boat owners.The hire companies have alot to answer for,do they actually spend any time giving instruction to the crews of these boats.I was hit yesterday by a wide beam hire boat and several years ago had to be craned out to repair the rudder and skeg,hire boat again.Sorry to piss on yer parade but I thought your thread was a dream,one that I cannot share I'm afraid.

 

I guess that being based at Skipton you'll be aware of all (0r certainly most of) the hire companies that have boats likely to reach you.

 

Have you had the opportunity to speak constructively with these operations, - if so - I'd be interested to know what their responses were - - for they have a great deal to lose from thaie property being damaged too

Edited April 6, 2012 by Grace & Favour

[mrsmelly]

I guess that being based at Skipton you'll be aware of all (0r certainly most of) the hire companies that have boats likely to reach you.

 

Have you had the opportunity to speak constructively with these operations, - if so - I'd be interested to know what their responses were - - for they have a great deal to lose from thaie property being damaged too

 

its all too easy to knock hire fleet operators but the ones I have worked with have tried hard to inform hirers of how to control a boat. The problem is it is impossible for them to absorb my 20 odd years experience in an hour or two. On the whole most of them do try but of course there will always be some who care not, but then again I have met a terrific amount of private owners who care not either. I started my boating in 1973 and even though I am a superstar I can make mistakes on occasion.

[Paul C]

The easiest way to make someone forget an important piece of information, is to tell them 20 other important pieces of information at the same time!

[Grace and Favour]

its all too easy to knock hire fleet operators but the ones I have worked with have tried hard to inform hirers of how to control a boat. The problem is it is impossible for them to absorb my 20 odd years experience in an hour or two. On the whole most of them do try but of course there will always be some who care not, but then again I have met a terrific amount of private owners who care not either. I started my boating in 1973 and even though I am a superstar I can make mistakes on occasion.

 

Aye - - -

 

The penultimate time I hired a boat from arguably the largest UK Boat hire company - - my complete handover and training last 18 minutes, and most of that time was going through their paperwork and signing on dotted lines.

 

(The handover chappie DID ask me if I'd been on a boat before, and I replied 'Yes'. He assumed I didn't need any further instruction on boat procedures, canal procedures, or lock operations / safety)

[bizzard]

The canals are alive with the sound of generators.

[Doorman]

The easiest way to make someone forget an important piece of information, is to tell them 20 other important pieces of information at the same time!

 

Agreed!

 

So, in order to overcome this natural phenomena, when the initial enquiry is made from the prospective hirer, which usually leads to a deposit being paid to secure the hire slot, would it not be prudent for the hire companies to send a copy of a Safety Handbook/Boater's Manual out to their new client, advising them to read and digest the enclosed information for their own safety and well being of their family. Surely, that's not too much to ask for any hire company, or for that matter, any hirer to undertake?

 

By doing such a simple and inexpensive task, they are then covering themselves from potential accidents and showing a duty of care to their customers. Prevention is far better (and cheaper) than cure. Of course, there will be examples where no matter how much advice and tuition is given, accidents still occur.

 

We see it regularly here on the Marina, from private boaters all of the time (including myself).

Edited April 7, 2012 by Doorman

[steven wilkinson]

Doorman,

Thats exactly what happened the last twice we hired - from Anglo Welsh, and canaltime/hireacanalboat.

 

Anglo Welsh sent a paper copy with the hire agreement paperwork, and hireacanalboat e-mailed all their documentation.

 

There was a world of difference with the training given though. After an introduction to the boat and basic boat handling, Anglo Welsh insisted they took us a couple of miles and then through at least the first lock, but the hireacanalboat was watch a DVD and then being driven out of the marina (Sawley).

 

We were, and still are, some of those happy, smiley hire people! Fortunatley we have only met happy, smiley boat owners on our travels!

 

As a few people on here, we don't have our own boat yet, but we have plans for the future. (If it wasn't for eldest sons housebuilding and summer wedding, coupled with the dire lack of water down South, we could well have our own boat by now!) Until we do have our own boat, we will keep hiring, keep smiling, keep learning, keep meeting fantastic people and keep enjoying the canals whenever we possibly can!

 

[Doorman]

Doorman,

Thats exactly what happened the last twice we hired - from Anglo Welsh, and canaltime/hireacanalboat.

 

Anglo Welsh sent a paper copy with the hire agreement paperwork, and hireacanalboat e-mailed all their documentation.

 

There was a world of difference with the training given though. After an introduction to the boat and basic boat handling, Anglo Welsh insisted they took us a couple of miles and then through at least the first lock, but the hireacanalboat was watch a DVD and then being driven out of the marina (Sawley).

 

We were, and still are, some of those happy, smiley hire people! Fortunatley we have only met happy, smiley boat owners on our travels!

 

As a few people on here, we don't have our own boat yet, but we have plans for the future. (If it wasn't for eldest sons housebuilding and summer wedding, coupled with the dire lack of water down South, we could well have our own boat by now!) Until we do have our own boat, we will keep hiring, keep smiling, keep learning, keep meeting fantastic people and keep enjoying the canals whenever we possibly can!

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for that post, it helps illustrate how different some of the hire operators are when it comes down to diligence and safety. The Anglo Welsh account doesn't surprise me, as I recall a Marine Engineer commenting how they are meticulous when it comes to keeping records of all of their hire boats, existing and past vessels that been sold on. It would be interesting and somewhat revealing, to see how their safety record holds up against some of their less interested competitors.

 

I know what you mean about the cost of your offspring and how it can be prohibiting against your own lifestyle. We are very fortunate in so much as we live on our boat full time and have been able to leave the house to our two children. That frees up our time and money to enjoy a well earned retirement.

 

keep on smiling, we certainly do!

 

Mike

[Guest]

Must say I enjoyed reading Cheshire Rose's post. What a change to see something positive amongst a forum of mostly grumpy, old people (myself included of course.)

[BruceinSanity]

Must say I enjoyed reading Cheshire Rose's post. What a change to see something positive amongst a forum of mostly grumpy, old people (myself included of course.)

Hear, hear. This is my very first post here, but I know there's not much point asking you lot to be gentle with me.

 

We've always found that if anything privateers are less considerate than hirers or sharers, but there's huge overlap. (And don't get me started about some hotel boats. )

 

My most embarrassing boo-boo in 30 odd years boating was at Foxton in the days of Mick and Crystal. I raised a paddle before Mick reckoned I should have, and he spent quite some time explaining my mistake to me. It was my first outing in our new share boat, and his final words were "You share owners, you think you're boaters, but you're just glorified hirers really!"

 

After many happy years sharing, we moved to liveaboard eight years ago, but still tend to call share boaters glorified hirers.

 

All done in the best possible taste, natch.

[Doorman]

After many happy years sharing, we moved to liveaboard eight years ago, but still tend to call share boaters glorified hirers.

 

All done in the best possible taste, natch.

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

We need as many positive people on here as possible, if only to offset the likes of me and Catweasel, the grumpies! :rolleyes:

 

Mike

[Ray T]

The sums boaters pay may not be BW's major source of income, but they are hardly a "drop in the ocean".

 

Do not boaters who moor in marinas, on the bank side contribute to BW's (C&RT) coffers in addition to licence fees and HMRC taxes? I understood that marins owners were obliged to pay a % to BW for every space available whether occupied by a boat or not.

 

Reference to the latest BW Report and Accounts shows that BW's licence and mooring income was some £23.7m out of a total income of £176.5m. In addition boaters will be contributing directly or indirectly to some of the other listed income sources such as BWML profits, BW's retail sales and rental income from BW property let to boatyards etc.

 

By comparison, BW's income from grants - which includes the taxpayer funded element - was £58.9m.

 

So the picture of the taxpayer covering most of BW's costs, with boaters making only a token contribution is simply untrue. Boaters contribute something like 30% of the boater+taxpayer income.

 

 

And as Dor has said, if canals were not maintained in navigable condition, then many sections would have gone, and be no longer available to walkers, anglers and all the rest. Lets not forget that the Rochdale and Huddersfield restorations required the removal of buildings built on the canal line at Failsworth, Stalybridge and Huddersfield, and more would have gone if the canal societies hadn't lobbied for restoration for some years before physical work started. How many more urban sections of canal would simply have disappeared under bricks and mortar if it hadn't been for boaters?

 

Also you just have to look at restoration films to see the junk, builders rubble etc that was thrown into canals when BW deemed them of no further use.

 

David

 

I

Edited April 7, 2012 by Ray T

[bowten]

I guess that being based at Skipton you'll be aware of all (0r certainly most of) the hire companies that have boats likely to reach you.

 

Have you had the opportunity to speak constructively with these operations, - if so - I'd be interested to know what their responses were - - for they have a great deal to lose from thaie property being damaged too

Have indeed spoken nicely to the said operators over several years to absolutely no avail.Have shouted at said operators to no avail.Have threatened said operators to no avail.

[Sanddancer]

Very True, Agree with all you say

Hear, hear. This is my very first post here, but I know there's not much point asking you lot to be gentle with me.

 

We've always found that if anything privateers are less considerate than hirers or sharers, but there's huge overlap. (And don't get me started about some hotel boats. )

 

My most embarrassing boo-boo in 30 odd years boating was at Foxton in the days of Mick and Crystal. I raised a paddle before Mick reckoned I should have, and he spent quite some time explaining my mistake to me. It was my first outing in our new share boat, and his final words were "You share owners, you think you're boaters, but you're just glorified hirers really!"

 

After many happy years sharing, we moved to liveaboard eight years ago, but still tend to call share boaters glorified hirers.

 

All done in the best possible taste, natch.

[Grace and Favour]

Have indeed spoken nicely to the said operators over several years to absolutely no avail.Have shouted at said operators to no avail.Have threatened said operators to no avail.

 

Hmm,

 

Obviously their property is insured, (as should all third party property) against damage by their clients.

If these companies have continued to be unaccommodating . . . .

Maybe you will need to notify them that you will put in a claim against all damage, and inconvenience, incurred by their customers, (accompanied with photo evidence of course!)

It may even be worthwhile to have your solicitor send them this notification.

 

They may squirm a bit at first, but it's odds-on that they'll start to be a little more diligent in how they brief their clients - you never know - they may even suggest that they take extra care when near and around your yard

[Theo]

Today as we have been doing a few jobs on the boat on our mooring we have had boats from 5 different hire fleets come past. Viking Afloat, Anglo Welsh, Countrywide Cruisers, Napton Narrowboats and Canal Cruising Co.

 

...snippety snip...

 

The sun is shining

Here is a toast to all hirers everywhere

 

What a great post!

 

Nick

 

Agreed!

 

So, in order to overcome this natural phenomena, when the initial enquiry is made from the prospective hirer, which usually leads to a deposit being paid to secure the hire slot, would it not be prudent for the hire companies to send a copy of a Safety Handbook/Boater's Manual out to their new client, advising them to read and digest the enclosed information for their own safety and well being of their family. Surely, that's not too much to ask for any hire company, or for that matter, any hirer to undertake?

 

By doing such a simple and inexpensive task, they are then covering themselves from potential accidents and showing a duty of care to their customers. Prevention is far better (and cheaper) than cure. Of course, there will be examples where no matter how much advice and tuition is given, accidents still occur.

 

We see it regularly here on the Marina, from private boaters all of the time (including myself).

 

Once you've made the original, DVDs are cheap too.

 

N

Edited April 8, 2012 by Theo

[Doorman]

Once you've made the original, DVDs are cheap too.

 

N

 

Even better idea given that the modern trend is to avoid reading matter but sway towards most things visual. As you say, once the original is cast, the rest are cheap. If a standard DVD was to be produced all of the hire operators could invest in their use and go some ways towards educating their clients. Someone out there is missing a trick.

 

Money well spent I believe!

Edited April 8, 2012 by Doorman

[casper ghost]

its all too easy to knock hire fleet operators but the ones I have worked with have tried hard to inform hirers of how to control a boat.

I moor near Viking alfoat and when their new hirers set off I see all sorts of mayhem as they struggle to work out what to do. 3 of their boats hit mine last weekend, i've no idea how they could manage it. Very little guidance given by company is totally to blame.

Casp'

[Doorman]

I moor near Viking alfoat and when their new hirers set off I see all sorts of mayhem as they struggle to work out what to do. 3 of their boats hit mine last weekend, i've no idea how they could manage it. Very little guidance given by company is totally to blame.

Casp'

 

I've never trusted Vikings after watching that film Odin! Although they were excellent sailors.

[Lady Muck]

Out cruising on the Lee and Stort - there are a few day boats and community boats up here and that's it, very quiet indeed. Bliss.

[Grace and Favour]

Out cruising on the Lee and Stort - there are a few day boats and community boats up here and that's it, very quiet indeed. Bliss.

 

I'd have thought that you were the only moving boat on the Lee & Stort . . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Norty Dave!

 

Coat

[Lady Muck]

You'd be surprised how few cc boats there are out here, been out all day today, doubt if we've passed even a dozen.

[Ange]

We had a Viking Afloat boat follow us through the locks on the S&W today - bloody brilliant! They arrived at each lock just as we'd got the boat in and insisted we both boarded because they'd take care of the rest. Happy smiley faces, enthusiasm, grateful acceptance of advice, much better than some of the grumpy, judgemental private boaters we also met today.

 

We were hirers three years ago, and that's why we're where we are now.