Steering Wheel V's Tiller

[Biggles]

Its just occurred to me now that I am in to process of planning to get the boat wet that I have never steered a boat with a steering wheel. All my steering experience over the last 5 years of owning a NB has been on a tiller.

 

So what can I expect? Hints, tips, experiences, anything really. I do of course realise that it steers the right way and not the "wrong" as a tiller does.

 

Also how essential is a rudder gage? I don t have one in my car buy I know instinctively where the wheels are pointing.

 

Kevin

[Guest]

Its just occurred to me now that I am in to process of planning to get the boat wet that I have never steered a boat with a steering wheel. All my steering experience over the last 5 years of owning a NB has been on a tiller.

 

So what can I expect? Hints, tips, experiences, anything really. I do of course realise that it steers the right way and not the "wrong" as a tiller does.

 

Also how essential is a rudder gage? I don t have one in my car buy I know instinctively where the wheels are pointing.

 

Kevin

 

Turn wheel right - boat will go to the right

 

Turn wheel left - boat will go the left

[Biggles]

Turn wheel right - boat will go to the right

 

Turn wheel left - boat will go the left

 

I refer you to Para.2

[Robbo]

Its just occurred to me now that I am in to process of planning to get the boat wet that I have never steered a boat with a steering wheel. All my steering experience over the last 5 years of owning a NB has been on a tiller.

 

So what can I expect? Hints, tips, experiences, anything really. I do of course realise that it steers the right way and not the "wrong" as a tiller does.

 

Also how essential is a rudder gage? I don t have one in my car buy I know instinctively where the wheels are pointing.

 

Tip is not to over steer as at first you will tend too be all over place and forever correcting (let the boat find it's way). I have a rudder gauge, it's useful when manoeuvring but not really used when on the go, my neighbour uses a bit of string on wheel.

[Guest]

I refer you to Para.2

 

I read it - that really is as hard as it gets, unless you happen to be steering an Italian Cruise liner..

[blackrose]

I think wheel steering is a bit harder and less intuitive once you're used to a tiller, but it depends on the sort of mechanism, linkages and sensitivity of how it's set up - whether it's hydraulic, etc.

 

When I steered a 70ft barge down the Thames I found I could give the wheel a full turn and nothing happened for about 30 seconds (or what seemed like 30 secs), until eventually the bow started coming around, but if you haven't already started correcting by then it's getting a bit late! (i.e. the boat will continue to turn for a while even though you've turned the wheel back). It didn't take long to get used to it, but I wouldn't fancy close quarters handling on that particular barge. The owner manages it ok.

 

What sort of boat are you getting? (Edit: Sorry I have seen your blog before - I always forget who is who on here.)

Edited January 23, 2012 by blackrose

[Grace and Favour]

Kevin,

 

I've found that a rudder indicator is indeed a useful piece of kit - - for there may well be times when you're on exposed water (river) with a flow running, eddies, and a crosswind when you would be well advised to know where your rudder is pointing (you may well be 'crabbing' the boat in order to steer straight)

 

I've an hydraulic (Vetus) set-up on our steering - it's not as 'sensitive' as tiller steering, a lock to lock turn takes longer - it almost feels as if there's a slightly greater 'time-lapse' between input and result (though that could well be just the steering idiosyncrasies of our boat.

 

Having said all that - we've got used to the wheel now - and love it

[Guest wanted]

Line the wheel up straight and tie a turks head knot at the top, save a few quid on a position indicator.

[PhilR]

 

Also how essential is a rudder gage? I don t have one in my car buy I know instinctively where the wheels are pointing.

 

Kevin

 

You have answered your own question! A rudder gauge is less essential than a spill chucker ........ sorry ............ only joking.

 

But seriously, you will soon get the hang of it. If you want a good laugh, ask me sometime about when I joined a broken steering cable without crossing the cables over between pulleys

[Pentargon]

Turn wheel right - boat will go to the right Turn wheel left - boat will go the left

unless you have an engineer on the team who likes to take the piss out of rookies by putting a turn in the belt before we arrive to go out for practice days

[Guest]

unless you have an engineer on the team who likes to take the piss out of rookies by putting a turn in the belt before we arrive to go out for practice days

 

There's no accounting for dangerous idiots though...

[Pentargon]

unless you have an engineer on the team who likes to take the piss out of rookies by putting a turn in the belt before we arrive to go out for practice days

 

Ref. 'marking;' dead-ahead wheel position: on a boat I was learning wheel use on, I bored a neat hole into the upmost spoke and screwed a "cheese-headed" brass screw up to it's neck into the hole. It was there two weeks before anyone even noticed it. During that time the instructor could not figure how I could centre the wheel so accurately. Out on the salty, when we're making good way, we just let go of the wheel and watch it centring itself, then grab it and hold on. We used to term the exercise "finding the lost wheel". Practice the wheel while moored. Turn it all the way clockwise til it stops. Then, counting the spokes, wind it all the way anti-cloc counting spokes as you go. Now turn clockwise half that number. Mark the spoke pointing straight up with an elastic band and then make your own arrangements. It won't actually matter because after about a week you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

There's no accounting for dangerous idiots though...

 

They are all accounted for MJG. or they will be on the day of judgement.

[blackrose]

It won't actually matter because after about a week you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

No necessarily. I recently met a bloke on a 60ft Piper barge who still wasn't used to it after 3 months, having previously owned a narrow boat with a tiller. It's a less direct form of steering so it's never going to be quite as easy.

Edited January 24, 2012 by blackrose

[Guest]

They are all accounted for MJG. or they will be on the day of judgement.

 

along with the innocents they take with them...

 

No necessarily. I recently met a bloke on a 60ft Piper barge who still wasn't used to it after 3 months, having previously owned a narrow boat with a tiller. It's a less direct form of steering so it's never going to be quite as easy.

 

Hi Mike - but if somebody still can't steer their boat after three months (tiller or wheel) they shouldn't be let loose on the water, wouldn't you agree?

Edited January 24, 2012 by MJG

[Pentargon]

along with the innocents they take with them...

 

 

 

Hi Mike - but if somebody still can't steer their boat after three months (tiller or wheel) they shouldn't be let loose on the water, wouldn't you agree?

 

What was the name of that Italian cruise captain again? or the boat? or even the island?

[Guest]

What was the name of that Italian cruise captain again? or the boat? or even the island?

 

See post 5

[DandV]

A rudder gauge is useful when low speed maneuvering if the wheel steering has a lot of turns between full starboard rudder and full port rudder. It is a good feature to know exactly which way the rudder is pointing before giving a good heave on the morse control.

 

Don

Edited January 24, 2012 by DandV

[Naughty Cal]

A lot will depend on the set up that you have. Our wheel steering and stern drive are exceptionally sensitive to even the slightest movement of the wheel. It doesnt take much of a turn on the wheel to send the boat heading for the bankside.

 

The shaft drive wheel steered boats that we have hired took longer to respond to the helm but at the same time they were predictable and easy to steer and manouvre. It might take you some time to get used to wheel steering, much the same as it has taken us to get used to tiller steering (friends boats) but with some practice you will soon get the hang of it. Its childs play really

[carlt]

I think wheel steering is a bit harder and less intuitive once you're used to a tiller...

...assuming you've never driven a car. :rolleyes:

[Tam & Di]

Ref. 'marking;' dead-ahead wheel position: on a boat I was learning wheel use on, I bored a neat hole into the upmost spoke and screwed a "cheese-headed" brass screw up to it's neck into the hole. It was there two weeks before anyone even noticed it. During that time the instructor could not figure how I could centre the wheel so accurately. Out on the salty, when we're making good way, we just let go of the wheel and watch it centring itself, then grab it and hold on. We used to term the exercise "finding the lost wheel". Practice the wheel while moored. Turn it all the way clockwise til it stops. Then, counting the spokes, wind it all the way anti-cloc counting spokes as you go. Now turn clockwise half that number. Mark the spoke pointing straight up with an elastic band and then make your own arrangements. It won't actually matter because after about a week you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

Biggles still hasn't said what sort of set up he has. On Friesland I have mechanical ((shaft/gears) connection between the wheel and rudder, with 16 turns lock-to-lock. If I did what you suggest I would find the boat pulling off to starboard all the time, largely due to a slowish revving 120hp Gardner putting a bias to that direction. Most of the commercial craft here (Continent) have hydraulic steering, and just flick the wheel which spins several turns when they come round. You just have to learn your own boat, and how /where you use it.

 

Certainly I do find a rudder position indicator useful. With a tiller you know where the rudder is (unless you've done something stupid to misalign it), but more importantly you can feel what is going on and make instant changes, very significant when coming in to locks for instance. Although you do eventually get to know the feedback with a wheel, even with hydraulic steering, it can be useful to flick the eyes down to see exactly where the rudder is in order to know what the boat is about to do. Not a good explanation I'm afraid, but it allows you to anticipate the boat's track, and the slight delay in reaction compared to tiller steering is overcome in that way. What you obviously can't do is steer by looking at the rudder indicator - you have to look at the world around you.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Tam & Di

[Timleech]

Its just occurred to me now that I am in to process of planning to get the boat wet that I have never steered a boat with a steering wheel. All my steering experience over the last 5 years of owning a NB has been on a tiller.

 

So what can I expect? Hints, tips, experiences, anything really. I do of course realise that it steers the right way and not the "wrong" as a tiller does.

 

Also how essential is a rudder gage? I don t have one in my car buy I know instinctively where the wheels are pointing.

 

Kevin

 

Two points with a rudder GAUGE (a gage is a plum! )

How much feedback will you get with your system?

How many turns lock to lock?

 

The great things about tiller steering on a narrow boat are feedback (unless you have a silly rudder with too much balance on the front) and speed of response.

If you have minimal feedback and can't see the rudder from the steering position, then you'll need some sort of indicator. If it's only one turn or so from lock to lock then marking the wheel in some way, as has been suggested, (traditional wooden wheels often have a brass cap on one spoke) should be sufficient.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

In my experience of watching wheel steered (from the back) steel narrow boats and wide-beams I have seldom seen people apparently having the same level of control or precision as many can achieve with tiller steering.

 

Probably about the only exception to this I have seen are our forum owner and his grandfather Tom on the steam narrow boat Emily Ann. They had it cracked, but Dan will himself I think admit it is harder skill than tiller steering. Oh, and Alan Paine, (spelling?), on the wonderful wooden GU inspection launch Kingfisher, (although that doesn't steer from the back).

 

We have several times shared Grand Union locks with wheel steered (from the back)narrow boats, and moving between locks always seems to be accompanied by a load of over-correction, and hence zig-zagging. (Often this is coupled to inappropriate use of a bow-thruster, further exacerbating the problem).

 

Quite recently we were asked if we minded going in the locks last, because they couldn't predict which side of a wide lock they had the better chance of actually landing the boat on - it was a matter more of where they happened to arrive. (It was often "neither"....).

 

I think it is more than just a tradition thing that, for example, working narrow boats were (almost) always tiller steered. Occasional experiments with boats that did have wheel steering usually got abandoned in favour of the traditional method.

 

Before Carl, Phyllis and co weigh in on me, I have no issue with it for sea going boats, broads cruisers, and maybe even river cruisers, (although the owners of big white gin palaces on the Thames can seldom enter a lock with the same precision as a tiller steered narrow boat or wide beam, can they ?).

 

Horses for courses, in my view, but I'm no fan of wheel steered narrow boats, unless they allow someone with a disability who could not easily tiller steer, to do so from a seated position, and still enjoy the canal life. Some of our local community boats are no doubt wheel steered for this reason, but they do often navigate very erratically!

[bizzard]

...assuming you've never driven a car. :rolleyes:

Or a rear wheel steer dumper truck.

[Albion]

Having changed from a tiller steered narrow boat in the UK to a couple of wheel steered wide beams in France I have direct experience of both systems.

 

Tiller steering gives you so much more feel and feedback. Hydraulic wheel systems are quite dead in feel and often have 5 or more turns lock to lock. It can be difficult to remember, therefore, which top dead centre you are at when your marker (turk's head or piece of tape) comes to the upper position. Also, hydraulic systems don't always return to an absolute dead centre each time as it is sometimes possible to over-ride the internal pressure relief valve. Chain, gear or cable systems will give more feedback but aren't common on modern boats due to the ready availability and simplicity of fitting of hydraulic systems.

 

The wheel steering takes a bit of getting used to but, providing the boat has good handling characteristics, you won't take too long to adapt.

 

Now, on the subject of a rudder gauge; IMO they are an extremely useful bit of kit from my experience, so useful in fact, that I fitted one to my first wide beam in France when I felt that I could do with the feedback it gives. It's not that you need it when you're cruising along, of course you don't. Where you do need it is, for example, when you have entered a lock, kicked the stern over to get a rope on a bollard or to step off to help the lockie by closing the opposite gate; you then are busy handling the ropes and watching the boat in the lock; the gates open and you go to set off. Now, where did you leave the rudder; hard over when you kicked the boat across or did you remember to straighten it again? Not sure, go to set off only to find that you left if hard over and you are rubbing the side of the lock before you get some correction on. Similarly, when setting off in the morning; where did you leave the rudder last night? None of these situations are critical but believe me, that from direct experience, they are a really good reason to have a rudder indicator of some sort.

Roger

Edited January 24, 2012 by Albion

[Robbo]

...assuming you've never driven a car. :rolleyes:

 

As steering a boat is so unlike steering a car, people who have never driven (a car) tend to learn a boat quicker.