Steering Wheel V's Tiller

[Roger Gunkel]

I've got a tiller on my wide beam and a wheel on my motorailer, and don't have a problem with either although they are different in response.

 

I find that with the tiller on the wide beam, I have very fine control over positioning the boat, particularly the stern when negotiating narrower area. The motorailer is much smaller and to be honest is like driving a car for general steering. The amount of turns from lock to lock will make a big difference to the feel and will usually depend on the size and weight of the boat. As Tam suggested, with 16 rotations from lock to lock, a rudder gauge would be very handy, but with my little 25ft motor sailer its only about 3 turns, so a RG would be pointless. You soon get a feel for the steering anyway, rather like going from a large to small vehicle or vice versa.

 

Over steering shouldn't be a problem if you are already an experienced helsman, as the heading and turn correction uses the same sort of over centreing in both systems so you would probably do it instinctively.

 

Personally I find wheel steering less tiring for long periods, but at the same time more detached from the feeling of the boat.

 

Roger

[AJLintern]

I suspect it's more like a rear wheel drive car with a surfeit of power over grip - most entertaining!

[bizzard]

Its like the train driver who on his first drive of a car crashed immediately into a tree,he thought it didn't need steering.

[Tam & Di]

Having changed from a tiller steered narrow boat in the UK to a couple of wheel steered wide beams in France I have direct experience of both systems.

 

Tiller steering gives you so much more feel and feedback. Hydraulic wheel systems are quite dead in feel and often have 5 or more turns lock to lock. It can be difficult to remember, therefore, which top dead centre you are at when your marker (turk's head or piece of tape) comes to the upper position. Also, hydraulic systems don't always return to an absolute dead centre each time as it is sometimes possible to over-ride the internal pressure relief valve.

 

Elaborating on my early comment that it depends upon the sort of boat/engine, it also depends on where you do your boating. On UK canals you often have very little water between the boat and the canal bed. This means that as you cruise the boat will often pull unexpectedly to one side because of the shape of the channel. With a tiller you can feel it immediately, without even having to see the boat slew, and take remedial action. This is not so easy with a wheel. Also on deeper water is it possible to go harder, and the thrust on the rudder blade can make tiller steering very heavy tiring work. We did have wheel steering on one of the wide passengerboats we operated on the lower GU, and that was not too bad, but you did have to go fairly steady with it if you wanted to keep control. With 24m 80dwt "Friesland" at 14 kph on French waterways (only on waterways where that is allowed, obviously ) it is no effort at all, but I'd hate to do that with tiller steering.

[Albion]

Elaborating on my early comment that it depends upon the sort of boat/engine, it also depends on where you do your boating. On UK canals you often have very little water between the boat and the canal bed. This means that as you cruise the boat will often pull unexpectedly to one side because of the shape of the channel. With a tiller you can feel it immediately, without even having to see the boat slew, and take remedial action. This is not so easy with a wheel. Also on deeper water is it possible to go harder, and the thrust on the rudder blade can make tiller steering very heavy tiring work. We did have wheel steering on one of the wide passengerboats we operated on the lower GU, and that was not too bad, but you did have to go fairly steady with it if you wanted to keep control. With 24m 80dwt "Friesland" at 14 kph on French waterways (only on waterways where that is allowed, obviously ) it is no effort at all, but I'd hate to do that with tiller steering.

 

I agree entirely. I wasn't advocating tiller steering for France (which is what Biggles is intending to do eventually, I believe) only explaining the differences that Biggles would find between the two. Our hydraulic system has about 5 turns lock to lock and gets quite heavy if you are under way at speed (when you don't often have to make huge rudder corrections, but it's not unknown), or manoeuvring with lots of power. It is also extremely heavy if you are reversing and have to put the rudder full over. You are then certainly aware of the rudder weight when you try to straighten up the rudder that's for sure. I wouldn't want to (possibly, wouldn't be able to) straighten a tiller under those circumstances without cutting the power significantly.

Roger

 

Edited to add that I believe that it is a requirement in France (and possibly other Continental countries) that you have a second, emergency, means of steering if your first one fails. In that case if Kevin (Biggles) has the stub of the rudder stock protruding above deck on his wide beam then he could fit a temporary tiller arm as the back up steering for the hydraulic system.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Albion

[Timleech]

Elaborating on my early comment that it depends upon the sort of boat/engine, it also depends on where you do your boating. On UK canals you often have very little water between the boat and the canal bed. This means that as you cruise the boat will often pull unexpectedly to one side because of the shape of the channel. With a tiller you can feel it immediately, without even having to see the boat slew, and take remedial action. This is not so easy with a wheel. Also on deeper water is it possible to go harder, and the thrust on the rudder blade can make tiller steering very heavy tiring work. We did have wheel steering on one of the wide passengerboats we operated on the lower GU, and that was not too bad, but you did have to go fairly steady with it if you wanted to keep control. With 24m 80dwt "Friesland" at 14 kph on French waterways (only on waterways where that is allowed, obviously ) it is no effort at all, but I'd hate to do that with tiller steering.

 

Yes, very much 'horses for courses'. I'd hate to steer a Narrow Boat, on narrow canals, with anything other than a tiller but converting our Humber Keel (35 years ago) from tiller to wheel was the right thing to do for use on the Continental waterways, as well as for safety on the sea crossing. The bigger the boat, the less practical a tiller becomes. Much bigger than a narrow boat & the steerer with a tiller will have much further to move and so will have inevitably less protection from the weather.

 

Tim

[Chertsey]

There is less direct feedback, and it is harder to that extent.

I am not sure that for me at least, wheel steering will ever be as intuitive as tiller. It seems to require a lot more thought and concentration, but I must enter the caveat that as yet I have a lot less experience of it.

[blackrose]

Hi Mike - but if somebody still can't steer their boat after three months (tiller or wheel) they shouldn't be let loose on the water, wouldn't you agree?

 

Who said he couldn't steer his boat? I said he still wasn't used to it - he told me he found it more difficult.

[Guest]

Who said he couldn't steer his boat? I said he still wasn't used to it - he told me he found it more difficult.

 

Fairy nuff - a slow learner then?

 

he needs to adapt PDQ so as not to not be a potential hazard to other boaters then...

[blackrose]

...assuming you've never driven a car. :rolleyes:

 

No, even if you've driven a car! I've been driving cars for over 30 years but I find wheel steering on a boat trickier. Perhaps if I'd been wheel steering boats for that long then it wouldn't be, but I don't think that was your point...

 

Unlike a car, a boat will drift, slip sideways and require constant positive corrections to compensate for any steering inputs.

 

The steering on most cars is also much more precise and direct than most boats.

 

Fairy nuff - a slow learner then?

 

he needs to adapt PDQ so as not to not be a potential hazard to other boaters then...

 

No he wasn't a slow learner and he wasn't a potential hazard to other boaters. He just found wheel steering more difficult than using a tiller.

 

I'm still not used to riding my folding bike even though I've had it for a while and I definitely find it more difficult than riding a regular bike because of the tiny wheels. However, I don't think I'm a slow learner or a hazard to other road users.

Edited January 24, 2012 by blackrose

[Chertsey]

Fairy nuff - a slow learner then?

 

he needs to adapt PDQ so as not to not be a potential hazard to other boaters then...

Sanctimoniousness alert!

[Robbo]

The steering on most cars is also much more precise and direct than most boats.

 

Obviously never driven a 50's american car then, like driving a boat

[DandV]

A lot will depend on the set up that you have. Our wheel steering and stern drive are exceptionally sensitive to even the slightest movement of the wheel. It doesnt take much of a turn on the wheel to send the boat heading for the bankside.

 

 

Having steered wheel (and tiller) operated outboards agree that the lack of steering without power present some challenges , but when slow speed manouvering outboard powered craft a look over the shoulder before applying power will ascertain which way that power will push, or pull. I am curious, How do you get by on a single sterndrive with the drive out of sight?

 

Cheers Don

[Guest]

Sanctimoniousness alert!

 

Yeah right - three months to be OK with steering your boat

 

Time to pay for lessons I would say...

 

No, even if you've driven a car! I've been driving cars for over 30 years but I find wheel steering on a boat trickier. Perhaps if I'd been wheel steering boats for that long then it wouldn't be, but I don't think that was your point...

 

Unlike a car, a boat will drift, slip sideways and require constant positive corrections to compensate for any steering inputs.

 

The steering on most cars is also much more precise and direct than most boats.

 

 

 

No he wasn't a slow learner and he wasn't a potential hazard to other boaters. He just found wheel steering more difficult than using a tiller.

 

I'm still not used to riding my folding bike even though I've had it for a while and I definitely find it more difficult than riding a regular bike because of the tiny wheels. However, I don't think I'm a slow learner or a hazard to other road users.

 

Three months to learn to ride the equivalent of a folding RSW??? - dear me...

 

Took me a week max from memory...

[bizzard]

Obviously never driven a 50's american car then, like driving a boat

Or a 1930's Ford 8 Y model.

 

Yeah right - three months to be OK with steering your boat

 

Time to pay for lessons I would say...

 

 

 

Three months to learn to ride the equivalent of a folding RSW??? - dear me...

 

Took me a week max from memory...

They can be made to ''about turn'' quickly by unlatching the folding device whilst at speed.

[Guest]

Or a 1930's Ford 8 Y model.

 

 

They can be made to ''about turn'' quickly by unlatching the folding device whilst at speed.

 

I have a folding bike but never tried that..

[mykaskin]

Practice the wheel while moored. Turn it all the way clockwise til it stops. Then, counting the spokes, wind it all the way anti-cloc counting spokes as you go. Now turn clockwise half that number. Mark the spoke pointing straight up with an elastic band and then make your own arrangements. It won't actually matter because after about a week you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

 

More fun when the system is unbalanced - there is no center, and it's more turns one way than the other - even more so on a Enfield Z-drive which you need to steer in reverse as well!

 

Mike

[Grace and Favour]

Yeah right - three months to be OK with steering your boat

 

Time to pay for lessons I would say...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note to self:

 

Never interrupt a chap so busy digging that he's not able to view the horizon

 

Just remember to offer him employment when trenches / canals are required

[Biggles]

I agree entirely. I wasn't advocating tiller steering for France (which is what Biggles is intending to do eventually, I believe) only explaining the differences that Biggles would find between the two. Our hydraulic system has about 5 turns lock to lock and gets quite heavy if you are under way at speed (when you don't often have to make huge rudder corrections, but it's not unknown), or manoeuvring with lots of power. It is also extremely heavy if you are reversing and have to put the rudder full over. You are then certainly aware of the rudder weight when you try to straighten up the rudder that's for sure. I wouldn't want to (possibly, wouldn't be able to) straighten a tiller under those circumstances without cutting the power significantly.

Roger

 

Edited to add that I believe that it is a requirement in France (and possibly other Continental countries) that you have a second, emergency, means of steering if your first one fails. In that case if Kevin (Biggles) has the stub of the rudder stock protruding above deck on his wide beam then he could fit a temporary tiller arm as the back up steering for the hydraulic system.

 

 

I do have such a stub for exactly that purpose. My wheel is 5 turns from lock to lock. Someone on the DBA suggested this.

 

Linky

 

Might be usefull.

[Naughty Cal]

Having steered wheel (and tiller) operated outboards agree that the lack of steering without power present some challenges , but when slow speed manouvering outboard powered craft a look over the shoulder before applying power will ascertain which way that power will push, or pull. I am curious, How do you get by on a single sterndrive with the drive out of sight?

 

Cheers Don

 

It has never been a particular problem, I suppose it is what you get used too. There are not a lot of turns lock to lock and the boat is so sensitive and precise to the movement of the wheel that you very quickly learn through the feel of the boat where the drive is pointing. You can fit "rudder" indicators at the helm but we have never felt the need to, preffering to use the feel of the boat to tell us all the info we need.

 

A lot of people claim that a single outdrive boat is just about the worst combination you can have for handling yet we find it to be really quite easy to handle. Horse for courses and what you are used to I suppose. We struggle wth the tiller and find that much more difficult to handle than a wheel steered single drive cruiser

[Ray]

It could depend on when you plan to use the boat as to the type of indicator (if any) that you have. Remember that after dark you may not be able to see a deck mounted indicator such as the fixing location of the emergency tiller.

 

The electric trip boat that I worked on had a wheel. It took a while to get used to but once I did I didn't see it as any different to a tiller steered boat. In fact I preferred it as the wheel had a wheelhouse over it (nice when it was raining - I remember those days) and I found the tiller steering on the other trip boat very heavy.

 

When I was training anyone I would point out that they could use the "stub" as an indicator but then tell them not to get used to it because they wouldn't be able to see it in the dark. Instead they should get used to the noise of the water passing the rudder to tell them which way the rudder was aiming the boat. Alas this isn't so easy if you're sitting/standing over a diesel engine. I would occasionally use the "stub" when moving off in a lock or from a mooring as mentioned above but other than that I trained myself to look where the front of the boat was going to know which way the rudder was pointing.

 

Having said all the above, I should perhaps point out that the electric trip boat had a top speed of about 2½mph and not a lot of power. This was sometimes and advantage but there were times when it was a distinct disadvantage.

[Albion]

I do have such a stub for exactly that purpose. My wheel is 5 turns from lock to lock. Someone on the DBA suggested this.

 

Linky

 

Might be usefull.

 

That is a relatively cheap way of doing it but, if you have a stub visible from the steering position (I'm assuming that you will mount the wheel on the back face of the cabin but I may be wrong), then you could always just fabricate a pointer that goes on the top of the stub of the rudder stock (removable to fit your emergency tiller if required). Some large hotel barges that I have seen do something like this with decorative fish etc acting as the pointer. The only other downside to the gravity gauge that you mention and the pointer that I have suggested is that they aren't illuminated which can be of use in tunnels (the locks in many parts of France close in the evening so I doubt that you'll be doing much night boating). I'm not sure how long the self-adhesive fixing for your gravity gauge would last if your wheel is mounted externally and exposed to the weather either but it might be OK.

Roger

Edited January 25, 2012 by Albion

[IanM]

Did briefly have a go at steering a Thames Sailing Barge a few times and you could tell that the rudder was centred when there wasn't as much resistance on the wheel.

[Chertsey]

Yeah right - three months to be OK with steering your boat

 

Time to pay for lessons I would say...

 

 

 

I seem to recall it took someone's wife a good deal longer than that to become confident steering a narrow boat. But maybe we expect less of the little ladies, eh.

[Tam & Di]

That is a relatively cheap way of doing it but, if you have a stub visible from the steering position (I'm assuming that you will mount the wheel on the back face of the cabin but I may be wrong), then you could always just fabricate a pointer that goes on the top of the stub of the rudder stock (removable to fit your emergency rudder if required).

 

When we first picked up Friesland to bring it back to the UK from Dronrijp it was out of trade and had nothing in the wheelbox but the wheel, gear lever and speed wheel. I jubilee-clipped a stick onto the top of the rudder stock with a little pointer so I could look over my shoulder to see the rudder position when I needed to for manoeuvring.