Me and The Wheel

[FORTUNATA]

I calculate I must have spent about 20 hours (or more) sweating over a wheel rebuild. Basically I came across a mountain bike with a very badly buckled rear wheel. It soon turned out the actual rim of the wheel was mishapen. So, my plan was to get another, straight wheel rim and then rethread the spokes from the old hub to the new rim. Problem was I'd never spoked a wheel before. I did have a book to help me so off I went.

Dare I say how many nights I stayed up till 2.00 a.m. on my boat with the wheel on the bed, cussing and swearing in frustration. It took about 3 attempts till I cracked the spoking pattern. Initially you start with a hub full of spokes and each in turn has to be threaded onto the rim in a pattern.

I'm confident I can now spoke correctly but sorry to say my wheel simply doen't work. My guess is the old spokes were a bit distorted so it would have been easier with brand new spokes. I do plan on getting it checked by a wheel builder to see if there is anything obvious, like possible minor differences between rims.

I think this is the hardest thing I ever attempted. Spent all week on it.

[Rebotco]

I calculate I must have spent about 20 hours (or more) sweating over a wheel rebuild. Basically I came across a mountain bike with a very badly buckled rear wheel. It soon turned out the actual rim of the wheel was mishapen. So, my plan was to get another, straight wheel rim and then rethread the spokes from the old hub to the new rim. Problem was I'd never spoked a wheel before. I did have a book to help me so off I went.

Dare I say how many nights I stayed up till 2.00 a.m. on my boat with the wheel on the bed, cussing and swearing in frustration. It took about 3 attempts till I cracked the spoking pattern. Initially you start with a hub full of spokes and each in turn has to be threaded onto the rim in a pattern.

I'm confident I can now spoke correctly but sorry to say my wheel simply doen't work. My guess is the old spokes were a bit distorted so it would have been easier with brand new spokes. I do plan on getting it checked by a wheel builder to see if there is anything obvious, like possible minor differences between rims.

I think this is the hardest thing I ever attempted. Spent all week on it.

 

 

My boat doesn't need wheels !!!!

 

Brian

[Guest]

You need 'Bicycle repair man'

 

AKA NBAlnwick

[JerryP]

what is the point of this topic ?

[1066]

Silly question alert, but why not just buy a new wheel?

[casper ghost]

Get the magnet out, usually turns up a bicycle wheel..

Casp'

[Proper Job]

Silly question alert, but why not just buy a new wheel?

That's the easy way.

 

Much better to spend endless nights burning the midnight oil

[IainW]

Make sure when you tighten the spokes you tighten them evenly or else the wheel will never be true (if you didn't do this).

 

A good technique is to screw every spoke into it's nipple to a set point (often when the threads have disappeared) and then go round the wheel tightening every third nipple by a half turn. Then the tension is created evenly in the wheel.

[carlt]

...tightening every third nipple by a half turn...

It's witchcraft, I tells yer.

[bizzard]

I've only seen it done but to True a bikes spoked wheel you need an old pair of front forks and mount them, forks upwards in a vice,and drop the built up wheel in and tighten up the spindle nuts.To get buckle and rotational trueness you need adjustable fixed trammels to work to.And of course a spoke key.

Or i suppose you could upturn the whole bike with the wheel in place to true it.

[FORTUNATA]

I had to buy a new one and it cost me 23 quid. When I got it it looked identical to the one I'd threaded myself. Spoke patterns spot on. I'd spent hours double checking. In fact, if you get an MTB wheel and count the successive spoke holes between the "ingoing" and "under" spokes that run from the hub you should count 9 holes!

I'm not finished yet. I'm going to find a wheel builder to try and find out what went wrong. My guess is I needed a slightly different size spoke although it's not impossible I also should try forcefully pulling the hub across.

The threading I know I have sorted. You start by the valve hole and run spokes anticlockwise, leaving 3 spoke gaps between. Then you do the same thing slighly offset on the other side. Then it's the opposing under hub spokes and those are the ones that screwed me. I did one side but the second side got tricky.

Don't know if you all remember but we once discussed cycle mechanics as a possible earner while living on a boat. Someone even said there was a boater or two already doing it. Well, I figure if I can build wheels I can fix buckles. This is part of my training I suppose but it ain't easy for sure.

 

Silly question alert, but why not just buy a new wheel?

[steelaway]

I had to buy a new one and it cost me 23 quid. When I got it it looked identical to the one I'd threaded myself. Spoke patterns spot on. I'd spent hours double checking. In fact, if you get an MTB wheel and count the successive spoke holes between the "ingoing" and "under" spokes that run from the hub you should count 9 holes!

I'm not finished yet. I'm going to find a wheel builder to try and find out what went wrong. My guess is I needed a slightly different size spoke although it's not impossible I also should try forcefully pulling the hub across.

The threading I know I have sorted. You start by the valve hole and run spokes anticlockwise, leaving 3 spoke gaps between. Then you do the same thing slighly offset on the other side. Then it's the opposing under hub spokes and those are the ones that screwed me. I did one side but the second side got tricky.

Don't know if you all remember but we once discussed cycle mechanics as a possible earner while living on a boat. Someone even said there was a boater or two already doing it. Well, I figure if I can build wheels I can fix buckles. This is part of my training I suppose but it ain't easy for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

I had a recollection that there are different spoke pattens and thought this might be of help

 

My link

 

 

Alex

[journeyperson]

It's witchcraft, I tells yer.

 

and I think you need three witches...

[andywatson]

Well, congratulations on getting as far as you did with out any tuition or instruction.

 

I've rebuilt a couple of wheels after some tuition in a bike shop many years ago and think you've done very well to get so far.

Without seeing the wheels it's hard to comment but I think starting with s/h spokes will have caused much of your trouble.

 

Even new spokes have to bed into the hub and rim so most wheels need re-truing after a few miles riding anyway.

Also spoke length is critical to which wheel, side of wheel and lacing pattern so the spoke lengths are chosen exactly - not by using just what you had unless you were very lucky and had two similar sets of donor components.

 

Again . well done that man.

[Bill]

I had to buy a new one and it cost me 23 quid. When I got it it looked identical to the one I'd threaded myself. Spoke patterns spot on. I'd spent hours double checking. In fact, if you get an MTB wheel and count the successive spoke holes between the "ingoing" and "under" spokes that run from the hub you should count 9 holes!

I'm not finished yet. I'm going to find a wheel builder to try and find out what went wrong. My guess is I needed a slightly different size spoke although it's not impossible I also should try forcefully pulling the hub across.

The threading I know I have sorted. You start by the valve hole and run spokes anticlockwise, leaving 3 spoke gaps between. Then you do the same thing slighly offset on the other side. Then it's the opposing under hub spokes and those are the ones that screwed me. I did one side but the second side got tricky.

Don't know if you all remember but we once discussed cycle mechanics as a possible earner while living on a boat. Someone even said there was a boater or two already doing it. Well, I figure if I can build wheels I can fix buckles. This is part of my training I suppose but it ain't easy for sure.

 

I noticed you mentioned it is a rear wheel. If so you also need to take dish into account (i.e. the wheel spoking is asymetrical, the spokes on the drive side are generally slightly shorter than those on the non drive side). This is so the wheel runs centrally and the cassette (gears) sits to one side. Many wheels have more spokes on the drive side than the other, e.g. on a 27 spoke rim, 18 drive side 9 non drive side. Front wheels have no dish as they are symetrical.

 

As you have a build book I won't tell you the process but it does take a fair bit of practice. Getting a wheel builder to show you is much easier than trying to learn alone.

 

Keep at it and good luck

[Peter Reed]

and I think you need three witches...

 

Not 3 witches,just one 3 nippled witch.

Apologies, I gave you a greenie accidently.

[journeyperson]

Not 3 witches,just one 3 nippled witch.

Apologies, I gave you a greenie accidently.

 

If we still had reddies you could move me back again but all I can now do is give everyone on the forum a greenie to make it right. I have made a start with you .

 

Bring back reddies!!!

[Grace and Favour]

If we still had reddies you could move me back again but all I can now do is give everyone on the forum a greenie to make it right. I have made a start with you .

 

Bring back reddies!!!

 

Didn't the USA have problems with suspected Reddies under the beddies?

[journeyperson]

Didn't the USA have problems with suspected Reddies under the beddies?

 

That was all sorted out with the Return of the Jeddie. Have my remaining greenie from today. How many forum members are there?

[Bob the welder]

I calculate I must have spent about 20 hours (or more) sweating over a wheel rebuild. Basically I came across a mountain bike with a very badly buckled rear wheel. It soon turned out the actual rim of the wheel was mishapen. So, my plan was to get another, straight wheel rim and then rethread the spokes from the old hub to the new rim. Problem was I'd never spoked a wheel before. I did have a book to help me so off I went.

Dare I say how many nights I stayed up till 2.00 a.m. on my boat with the wheel on the bed, cussing and swearing in frustration. It took about 3 attempts till I cracked the spoking pattern. Initially you start with a hub full of spokes and each in turn has to be threaded onto the rim in a pattern.

I'm confident I can now spoke correctly but sorry to say my wheel simply doen't work. My guess is the old spokes were a bit distorted so it would have been easier with brand new spokes. I do plan on getting it checked by a wheel builder to see if there is anything obvious, like possible minor differences between rims.

I think this is the hardest thing I ever attempted. Spent all week on it.

you need to get out more .

[weeble]

My boat doesn't need wheels !!!!

 

Brian

I dunno..... some levels were so low this year that I threatened to fit a set of wheels on my boat more than once

[FORTUNATA]

I'll go back to it later and get some advice from a wheel builder. It seemed as if the side I'd spoked was pulling the hub too tight to centralise it. There may also be some minor differences between hubs although I'm not sure. I think maybe I can crack it but will probably need to measure my new spokes. I'm told the actual lacing isn't as difficult as people imagine but the trueing process is. In my case, I couldn't get all the spokes in so I could begin to try and true the wheel. It was only the last 5 undercrossing spokes. One fell about an eighth of an inch short of the rim hole! It was disappointing as I spent ages separating and measuring the shorter spokes from the long and definitely had the shorter spokes ont he drive sprocket side.

My next task now is to fit a rear derailleur. I'm not looking forward to it. I have my own way of doing it but sometimes it can take quite a time till I get the shifting to kick in. If I did it more often I think I wouldn't be so jittery but it was some months ago I last adjusted a derailleur.

 

Well, congratulations on getting as far as you did with out any tuition or instruction.

 

I've rebuilt a couple of wheels after some tuition in a bike shop many years ago and think you've done very well to get so far.

Without seeing the wheels it's hard to comment but I think starting with s/h spokes will have caused much of your trouble.

 

Even new spokes have to bed into the hub and rim so most wheels need re-truing after a few miles riding anyway.

Also spoke length is critical to which wheel, side of wheel and lacing pattern so the spoke lengths are chosen exactly - not by using just what you had unless you were very lucky and had two similar sets of donor components.

 

Again . well done that man.

 

I got this information from a wheel mechanic:

 

"measure the Effectve Rim Diameter of your recalcitrant rim ...

 

•you also want to measure the diameter of the spoke holes in the flange

•and, the flange offset

 

Then, using one of the on-line spoke calculators (I used to use Dan Halem's excellent Spoke Calculator, but it is no longer available, so I've been reduced to using the limited-but-good-enough SPOKULATOR on-line spoke calculator ... there are OTHER on-line calculators which others seem to prefer), determine the IDEAL spoke length for each side of the rear wheel using various lacings ... e.g, 32x3, or whatever is suitable for your specific rim & rear hub ...

 

•round down ... e.g., for 259.6mm choose a 259mm spoke

•a variance of up to 2mm will "work" ... so, a 258mm spoke would work in the hypothetical exampe ... a 262mm spoke would work, too.

 

Measure your spokes ...

 

Now that you know the combination of rim, hub & spokes will-or-won't work, unlace the rest of the spokes and relace the wheel.

 

•This may be stating the obvious, but DON'T TENSION THE SPOKES UNTIL THEY HAVE ALL BEEN LACED.

 

PROBLEMS? Unlace the hub & do it again ...

 

REPEAT until you manage to successfully lace all of the spokes.

 

Tension & true."

[Chris Pink]

I

PROBLEMS? Unlace the hub & do it again ...

 

REPEAT until you manage to successfully lace all of the spokes.

 

 

 

There you go...the answer.

[Phil Ambrose]

I'll go back to it later and get some advice from a wheel builder. It seemed as if the side I'd spoked was pulling the hub too tight to centralise it. There may also be some minor differences between hubs although I'm not sure. I think maybe I can crack it but will probably need to measure my new spokes. I'm told the actual lacing isn't as difficult as people imagine but the trueing process is. In my case, I couldn't get all the spokes in so I could begin to try and true the wheel. It was only the last 5 undercrossing spokes. One fell about an eighth of an inch short of the rim hole! It was disappointing as I spent ages separating and measuring the shorter spokes from the long and definitely had the shorter spokes ont he drive sprocket side.

My next task now is to fit a rear derailleur. I'm not looking forward to it. I have my own way of doing it but sometimes it can take quite a time till I get the shifting to kick in. If I did it more often I think I wouldn't be so jittery but it was some months ago I last adjusted a derailleur.

 

 

 

I got this information from a wheel mechanic:

 

I used to race at National Level many, many years ago and though I would retrue a wheel that was slightly out anything more sent me straight to my local specialist, so well done for getting as far as you have. RESPECT!

 

Phil

"measure the Effectve Rim Diameter of your recalcitrant rim ...

 

•you also want to measure the diameter of the spoke holes in the flange

•and, the flange offset

 

Then, using one of the on-line spoke calculators (I used to use Dan Halem's excellent Spoke Calculator, but it is no longer available, so I've been reduced to using the limited-but-good-enough SPOKULATOR on-line spoke calculator ... there are OTHER on-line calculators which others seem to prefer), determine the IDEAL spoke length for each side of the rear wheel using various lacings ... e.g, 32x3, or whatever is suitable for your specific rim & rear hub ...

 

•round down ... e.g., for 259.6mm choose a 259mm spoke

•a variance of up to 2mm will "work" ... so, a 258mm spoke would work in the hypothetical exampe ... a 262mm spoke would work, too.

 

Measure your spokes ...

 

Now that you know the combination of rim, hub & spokes will-or-won't work, unlace the rest of the spokes and relace the wheel.

 

•This may be stating the obvious, but DON'T TENSION THE SPOKES UNTIL THEY HAVE ALL BEEN LACED.

 

PROBLEMS? Unlace the hub & do it again ...

 

REPEAT until you manage to successfully lace all of the spokes.

 

Tension & true."

 

Dont' know what happened there.

 

Phil

[twbm]

what is the point of this topic ?

 

What? There has to be a point to topics?

 

In this case the OP had wrestled with an annoying (albeit some might say self inflicted) problem, had succeeded after much frustration, and wanted to share. I submit that respoking a wheel without prior knowledge or the specialised tools is an excellent example of the sort of bloody minded inventive determination that got water to go uphill via locks and spawned the industrial revolution.