A documentary made in the early part of 1970 following the Whitlocks

[pete harrison]

 

I'm not sure why my involvement with Raymond has to do with anything though I was invited to be a trustee on 2 occasions. I declined both invitations.

 

Because David had suggested that the survival of the last built wooden commercial narrow boat involved you - and I did not think (based on your passed statements) that you had too many positive connections to the current RAYMOND.

 

It is widely suggested, though, that Elsie, Hazel and Raymond were actually rebuilds of existing Barlows boats, reusing old ironwork.

 

Lucy was, I am led to believe, the last scratch built boat, using new ironwork.

 

 

I am aware of these 'tales', and I am also aware that this practice was common amongst many boat builders. I suppose it depends on how one interprets 'new boat', and what one wants to believe.

Edited December 6, 2011 by pete harrison

[carlt]

I am aware of these 'tales', and I am also aware that this practice was common amongst many boat builders. I suppose it depends on how one interprets 'new boat', and what one wants to believe.

But Raymond tries to have it both ways.

 

 

If you interpret reusing the iron work from an old boat, paying little regard to the original boat's woodwork, as "building a new boat" then "Raymond" no longer exists and a new, unrelated boat has been constructed rather than the faithful restoration that the Raymond Trust claim.

 

That would make Hazel the last built wooden ex-working boat still surviving.

Edited December 6, 2011 by carlt

[alan_fincher]

That would make Hazel the last built wooden ex-working boat still surviving.

Unfortunately in her current incarnation Hazel looks probably less like a Nurser boat than Raymond does, (and yes, I am referring to the correct Hazel!).

 

It does seem incredibly hard to rebuild substantial parts of wooden working boats and not change them from their original persona, at least a little.

 

Someone I have a lot of respect for suggested to me that many of the boats rebuilt by a well respected restorer of wooden boats all get a bit of a "house" look, and that (say) Ricky gets somewhat blurred into (say) tar boat.

 

Sadly, once that suggestion has been made, and you start looking at them more critically, there does appear to be at least an element of truth in it.

 

(All in my purely subjective opinion, only, I'll freely admit - others with more detailed knowledge of wooden boats may choose to disagree vehemently with such a suggestion!).

[jake_crew]

Jeanette S-H you have a personal message.

[pete harrison]

But Raymond tries to have it both ways.

 

 

If you interpret reusing the iron work from an old boat, paying little regard to the original boat's woodwork, as "building a new boat" then "Raymond" no longer exists and a new, unrelated boat has been constructed rather than the faithful restoration that the Raymond Trust claim.

 

That would make Hazel the last built wooden ex-working boat still surviving.

 

I do not see RAYMOND as a restoration, renovation or rebuild.

 

When I was a 'Steerer' for the Friends of Raymond I always described RAYMOND as a new boat (built 2000/01) that has taken the identity of the last wooden narrow boat built for commercial work, and incorporates some if not all of the former boat's ironwork. This was certainly not what the trustee's prefered me to say, but I am afraid I prefer the truth and I always ancouraged my crew to portray my version. After all it is absolutely obvious that the new RAYMOND bares nothing in common with the old RAYMOND apart from the ironwork and it being a wooden butty.

[David Mack]

This thread reminds me that some time in the mid 70s I saw Friendship tied up at Suttons, still lived on by Rose Skinner after Joe had died. The back cabin was covered in a tarp to keep the rain out, and the paintwork was in a sorry state - a big contrast to the colour photos of Joe and Rose and the boat a few years earlier which I has seen in books and magazines.

 

After Rose's death the Ellesmere Port museum acquired the boat and quickly concluded it was beyond restoration as a floating exhibit, so what I saw there a few years later was nicely painted up, but sitting on the floor in the protected environment of the Island Warehouse, and ISTR with part of the hull cutaway.

 

Looking at what has became of some of their other floating exhibits, perhaps Friendship's fate was the better outcome.

 

David

[David Schweizer]

This thread reminds me that some time in the mid 70s I saw Friendship tied up at Suttons, still lived on by Rose Skinner after Joe had died. The back cabin was covered in a tarp to keep the rain out, and the paintwork was in a sorry state - a big contrast to the colour photos of Joe and Rose and the boat a few years earlier which I has seen in books and magazines.

 

After Rose's death the Ellesmere Port museum acquired the boat and quickly concluded it was beyond restoration as a floating exhibit, so what I saw there a few years later was nicely painted up, but sitting on the floor in the protected environment of the Island Warehouse, and ISTR with part of the hull cutaway.

 

Looking at what has became of some of their other floating exhibits, perhaps Friendship's fate was the better outcome.

 

David

I am sure that Carl could confirm that one of the problems with wooden boats is that the cabin paintwork does not last very long before it starts to look quite scruffy. We have wooden doors on our back cabin and theyseem to need repainting every three years, oftebn with remedial work being undertaken on the wood because of moistuire ingress.

 

Here is a photo of Friendship taken in the late 60's which shows the condition of the paintwork then. I did not think to ask his name when the photo was taken, but I believe it is Tony lewerey who is re-painting the Castle:-

 

Edited December 7, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Chris Pink]

Here is a photo of Friendship taken in the late 60's which shows the condition of the paintwork then. I did not think to ask his name when the photo was taken, but I believe it is Tony lewerey who is re-painting the Castle:-

 

 

no pressure then.

 

 

ps I like scruffy wooden back doors if they're painted nicelty

[greywolf]

i looked at a boat building forum that said that many believed that painting a boat rendered the wood waterproof but that it was not so and a marine vanish had to be used over the top of it,did the paint on narrow boats have this protection over the paintwork or was the paint different then.

[greywolf]

LOl answered my own question looking in colors of the cut it was varnished afterwards. i suppose the badly polluted atmosphere in cities would not have done paintwork any favors.

[Derek R.]

Paints can be a bit of a minefield. Many have been the improvements in formulation over the years though some old favourites are sorely missed, likewise with varnish. Big combines such as ICI have taken over smaller companies who themselves produced quality paint, and the end result has not always been good.

 

Couple of interesting links:

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/paints/williamson/

http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/index.html

 

Derek

[Speedwheel]

Paints can be a bit of a minefield. Many have been the improvements in formulation over the years though some old favourites are sorely missed, likewise with varnish. Big combines such as ICI have taken over smaller companies who themselves produced quality paint, and the end result has not always been good.

 

Couple of interesting links:

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/paints/williamson/

http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/index.html

 

Derek

 

Thanks Derek,

 

That is very useful.

[greywolf]

wow yes thanks for the links linseed oil is certainly a useful product.It will take quite a bit of reading to absorb all that is there.