A documentary made in the early part of 1970 following the Whitlocks

[alan_fincher]

How long has Ian been for sale now? and how much has the price dropped?

 

A long long time... Yes the price has dropped... When we went and looked (purely out of curiosity you understand), which must have been in early 2009, I think the asking price was in the region of 45k. Even the current price though is a long way from being realistic given the amount it needs spending on it. When we were at WFBCo collecting Bakewell, Rex Wain arrived to take Ian away to Brinklow for repairs, just, I suspect, to keep it afloat for another winter.

Of course it could be argued that this is not just a wooden boat thing.

 

By all accounts a certain very much discussed Big Woolwich has had a lot of additional remedial steelwork done to it, whilst, so far as I'm aware, the price tag has stuck firmly at the same level of nearly £90K since the last time it came on the market.

[alan_fincher]

I seem to recall Mr Fincher commenting that Laura did not seem herself at Braunston this year for the aforementioned reason of her Brother's passing. The film shows not Laura, but Rose and Bill, and the Ginger haired young man has I believe contributed here at times. (I might be wrong on that.)

I think we have established that in terms of who is shown, it if often Laura.

 

However the only one of the women shown clearly talking "to camera" is Rose.

 

To my untrained ear, Rose talking there and Laura in much more recent footage sound very similar.

 

So my question to those who might know, is was some of the "talk" where the speaker isn't actually shown by Laura, rather than Rose ? I rather thought it was.

 

Shame on poor old Bill for using what MrSmelly describes as a "road vehicle" on the tow-path though - should never be allowed, apparently!!

[Derek R.]

I may be wrong on personal identities not knowing them or having met them myself, so apologies if I am wrong.

 

I believe this is Rose Whitlock in the cabin of Lucy - image No.58 of 80 from David Easton's collection.

 

Derek

[David Schweizer]

I may be wrong on personal identities not knowing them or having met them myself, so apologies if I am wrong.

 

I believe this is Rose Whitlock in the cabin of Lucy - image No.58 of 80 from David Easton's collection.

 

Derek

Yes, that is Rose Whitlock.

[Roxy]

I may be wrong on personal identities not knowing them or having met them myself, so apologies if I am wrong.

 

I believe this is Rose Whitlock in the cabin of Lucy - image No.58 of 80 from David Easton's collection.

 

Derek

What lovely pictures Derek, thanks so much for sharing

[Hairy-Neil]

I may be wrong about the colour of Rose's hair, but Joan's hair certainly had a distinct Auburn tinge when she was a teenager. Somewhere I have a couple of photos of her steering Lucy which I am sure show the colour of her hair quite clearly. When I get a moment I will hunt them out and post a scan.

Edited to add:- I have just thought that I may be responding to a family member, so I apologise if my posts on this subject are an intrusion.

 

Strawberry blonde....

[mrsmelly]

I think we have established that in terms of who is shown, it if often Laura.

 

However the only one of the women shown clearly talking "to camera" is Rose.

 

To my untrained ear, Rose talking there and Laura in much more recent footage sound very similar.

 

So my question to those who might know, is was some of the "talk" where the speaker isn't actually shown by Laura, rather than Rose ? I rather thought it was.

 

Shame on poor old Bill for using what MrSmelly describes as a "road vehicle" on the tow-path though - should never be allowed, apparently!!

 

Alan you are like a dog with a bone but you have reminded me I forgot to ask after your last post just what colour Lycra Bill used to wear whilst tearing up and down the Tow PATH with 10 of his mates ?

[Derek R.]

Terrible to get so involved with detail - maybe it's the Virgo in me! There does appear at least two ladies in the film, if not a third. Deceptively, two of the ladies, Rose and probably Laura, are wearing a similar dress, but one wears a red headscarf - spinning the mop, and in the final parting shot steering Renfrew. Also, spot them both in the sequence shafting out of Mitre Dock - is that Laura beyond Rose? Finally, a tantalising glimpse of a younger (?) lady steering Renfrew while Mick takes the butties straps - could that be Joan?

 

Film taken over a number of places, and inevitably time will throw up differences of dress of course, or maybe a sense of humour in fooling the viewer! I doubt the latter.

 

Not having spoken to either, I cannot comment on whose voice is whose, but it does sound like the same person. A twist to that, is that if you work with someone intensely and with whom you have a rapport, it is easy to pick up the other persons inflections in voice almost without realising it.

 

A most enjoyable piece of film all round, and an important piece of history brought to life.

[alan_fincher]

Alan you are like a dog with a bone but you have reminded me I forgot to ask after your last post just what colour Lycra Bill used to wear whilst tearing up and down the Tow PATH with 10 of his mates ?

My understanding is that Bill, being of an older generation, was always a bit embarrassed about wearing the Lycra. For this reason, it was usually worn under his normal boating attire, and isn't really evident in archive film or photographs, other than maybe as a bit of perceived extra bulk......

[David Schweizer]

Terrible to get so involved with detail - maybe it's the Virgo in me! There does appear at least two ladies in the film, if not a third. Deceptively, two of the ladies, Rose and probably Laura, are wearing a similar dress, but one wears a red headscarf - spinning the mop, and in the final parting shot steering Renfrew. Also, spot them both in the sequence shafting out of Mitre Dock - is that Laura beyond Rose? Finally, a tantalising glimpse of a younger (?) lady steering Renfrew while Mick takes the butties straps - could that be Joan?

 

Film taken over a number of places, and inevitably time will throw up differences of dress of course, or maybe a sense of humour in fooling the viewer! I doubt the latter.

 

Not having spoken to either, I cannot comment on whose voice is whose, but it does sound like the same person. A twist to that, is that if you work with someone intensely and with whom you have a rapport, it is easy to pick up the other persons inflections in voice almost without realising it.

 

A most enjoyable piece of film all round, and an important piece of history brought to life.

There are two women in the film, Laura Carter, and Rose Whitlock, I think it was Alan who pointed out that during an interview for the TV film "Narrowboat Afloat" Joan indicated that she had re settled on the land before the family aquired Renfrew.

 

I have also noticed that Laura and Rose often wore similar dresses, probably bought at the same time during one of their rarer trips into a town.

[bobby2011]

I think we have established that in terms of who is shown, it if often Laura.

 

However the only one of the women shown clearly talking "to camera" is Rose.

 

To my untrained ear, Rose talking there and Laura in much more recent footage sound very similar.

 

So my question to those who might know, is was some of the "talk" where the speaker isn't actually shown by Laura, rather than Rose ? I rather thought it was.

 

Shame on poor old Bill for using what MrSmelly describes as a "road vehicle" on the tow-path though - should never be allowed, apparently!!

 

 

Bill Whitlock had a licence from British Waterways to cycle along the tow path, wonder how many have them now

[David Schweizer]

Bill Whitlock had a licence from British Waterways to cycle along the tow path, wonder how many have them now

And it could possibly have been issued by Mr Williams (forgotten his first name possibly Bill or John) the Mobile Towpath Warden on the Southern Grand Union. If I remember correctly they were two and sixpemnce, with a Towpath walking Licence being a Shilling.

 

P.S I still have a Towpath Cycling Licence somewhwere, although I understand that nowadays I am allowed to cycle the towpath in connection with the navigation of our boat without one.

Edited December 4, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Laurence Hogg]

Bill Whitlock had a licence from British Waterways to cycle along the tow path, wonder how many have them now

I have a current one for our bike, they are free to get.

[jeannette smith harrison]

Hello

Just noticed this topic,sorry been away from home all week.

Braunston this year was v scarce on the Carter's

owing to the fact that Laura's brother joe sadly passed away on the Sat morning.

I have great admiration for Laura as being unwell herself & upset at the loss of her brother

she put on a brave face & attended Braunston on the Sat.

Laura has a true working boaters accent but to me her's is kind of more refined.

It's hard to explain but if you listen to most old boatmen & women talking there often appears to be a kind of pause between a lot of the spoken words. Laura's words flow with her soft voice.

Ginger hair was not uncommon in the boatmans familys my nan & her side had lots of ginger hair.

mine was blond as a small baby but soon started to show the ginger highlights.my nan always said its a sign of the

boatmans firery blood showing through.

Iv tried to post a photo of myself & Laura @ Braunston but its refusing to do so prahaps if i mailed them to you David you would be kind enough to post them for me.

I now feel guilty as i promised to visit family at Coventry more often & havent been there since Joe Carters funeral(not so eazy living the other side of London) so must make time before Christmas.

Jeannette

[David Schweizer]

 

snip> Iv tried to post a photo of myself & Laura @ Braunston but its refusing to do so prahaps if i mailed them to you David you would be kind enough to post them for me. < snip

 

Jeannette

 

PM sent

[David Schweizer]

Jeanette Smith Harrison's photos

 

 

 

 

 

Laura is the Grey Haired lady in the last three photos, I will leave Jeanette to name the other people, who are, I believe, other members of her family.

 

Please Note:- The pictures have been re-sized to enable quicker downloading.

Edited December 5, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Evo]

1990's

 

2008

 

Who the hell had this boat between those dates. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boat. Thats neglect in the extreme.

[IanM]

[David Schweizer]

1990's

 

2008

 

Who the hell had this boat between those dates. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boat. Thats neglect in the extreme.

Of course you could be being deliberately provocotive, but if not,you are treading on dodgy territory.

 

I suspect that almost everyone else on this forum knows exactly who owned Lucy. In fact the former owner only recently explained why she got into such a poor state.

[carlt]

Who the hell had this boat between those dates. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boat. Thats neglect in the extreme.

There speaks someone who knows f*** all about wooden boats and is blinded by a bit of paint.

 

Presumably if someone had a photo of your boat, a week before the fire and a week after, they could make the same assumptions?

 

 

Moron!

Edited December 5, 2011 by Lady Muck
to remove swearing

[carlt]

In fact the former owner only recently explained why she got into such a poor state.

Lucy already needed a rebuild, in the 1970s, when she stopped working, but never got one.

 

When Andy had her, two owners before me, the back end was already knackered and the faults covered in layers of paint.

 

He took her to Runcorn, in the late 80s, docked her, realised there was nothing he could do, in the dock time available, patched the leaks up and took her back to Cosgrove, where she lay, until I bought her some 12 years or so later and repaired her sufficiently to get her legal and go boating.

 

Yes she has been neglected, over the 30+ years between finishing work and being lifted out, for a rebuild, but not as much as the thousands of wooden boats that haven't survived.

[mrsmelly]

Lucy already needed a rebuild, in the 1970s, when she stopped working, but never got one.

 

When Andy had her, two owners before me, the back end was already knackered and the faults covered in layers of paint.

 

He took her to Runcorn, in the late 80s, docked her, realised there was nothing he could do, in the dock time available, patched the leaks up and took her back to Cosgrove, where she lay, until I bought her some 12 years or so later and repaired her sufficiently to get her legal and go boating.

 

Yes she has been neglected, over the 30+ years between finishing work and being lifted out, for a rebuild, but not as much as the thousands of wooden boats that haven't survived.

 

 

Carl

 

Hi you do not need to justify yourself on the forum. Anyone can tell you are passionate about wooden boats and quite rightly so. I bought a fabulous double diagonal teak 38 foot boat in 1994 from a yard on the broads. It had been maintained meticulously by one family for the previous thirty odd years and came with a file including money spent on it that was awesome. The boat was immaculate. It was seaworthy and I kept it at Gloucester docks. I only had it about a year and soon could see that I was not going to have the time, money or skills to keep it in that condition so I put a notice in the window saying " Real boat for sale, guaranteed no plastic " I sold it within 48 hours for cash and at a profit to a bloke who new wooden boats and am glad it went so as not to be ruined by myself. Until anyone has owned a wooden boat they have no idea what is involved, Basically I bottled it and went back to steel...... Forgot to mention the boat was built in 1939 so proves how good wood is if looked after

Edited December 5, 2011 by mrsmelly

[carlt]

Hi you do not need to justify yourself on the forum.

The problem is you do have to, over and over again to those who cannot see past a splash of paint.

 

Here's a perfect example:

 

At the moment there are two Nurser motors for sale...

 

One of them had a, not too good, rebuild, about 20 years ago, and largely needs redoing, in order to keep it going for another 20 years....for sale at £30k.

 

The other one has had a meticulous plank by plank restoration, annual dockings, and continuous maintenance by its last owner, a professional boat builder, and its present one, a keen enthusiast. For sale for about £12k but will probably go for a lot less.

 

Guess which one is in primer and which one has a professional paint job...

[Evo]

1990's

 

2008

 

Who the hell had this boat between those dates. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boat. Thats neglect in the extreme.

 

Oh dear, it was Carls was it..?? So what is it about my comment thats firstly so wrong and secondly requires someone to start swearing. There is no need for that kind of neglect to anything - regardless of your circumstances - especially if you are passionate about its heritage.

[carlt]

So what is it about my comment thats firstly so wrong and secondly requires someone to start swearing. There is no need for that kind of neglect to anything - regardless of your circumstances - especially if you are passionate about its heritage.

If you knew the slightest thing about what you were looking at you would see the evidence , in the first picture of the already deteriorating bits, camouflaged by paint and filler, that I exposed, with a view to working on it, before personal circumstances forced me to look for a new owner.

 

Lucy was knackered long before Andy covered her faults up and many of those faults were addressed, when I took a boat that was on an embankment, with a permanent siphon pipe going down the bank, barely keeping her afloat, and fixed her up enough to get legal and be safe to go continuosly cruising.

 

 

I'm sorry I didn't pander to ignorant oafs like you, and put some paint on her cabin, but I thought below the waterline was more important than what she looked like above.

 

You have come out with crap like this before Evo and it was moronic trolling then, just like it is now.

 

You are either mischief making or are too thick to recall the discussion we had last time.