Smoking lots....

[Roxy]

 

I know these engines chuck out alot of smoke on first start, but is this normal? I needed a bloody gas mask, having said that, emptied the drip tray today, was full of leaves, twigs, clothing, maggots, diesel, oil and water.....Im suprised my boat was still floating tbh

Fresh water added and oil too engine, next weekend will see if anything more has leaked into drip tray or whatever its called lol

 

Cleanish BMC 1.5

[Guest]

Was that taken today?

 

- looks like the same as ours (Isuzu) when it starts on a very cold morning, it's not blue but grey, harmless..don't worry about it.

[MtB]

Yep perfectly normal for a knackered old BMC to make that much smoke on starting.

 

I doubt it has more than about 30 years left in it now before it needs a rebuild.....

 

HTH, lol

 

Mike

[cereal tiller]

maybe one of the glowplugs has failed,or the timing chain has strecthed a bit and nade the timing late?

does the engine run clean when warmed up?

 

if so,mike is correct,it will only last a few more decades!

[Roxy]

maybe one of the glowplugs has failed,or the timing chain has strecthed a bit and nade the timing late?

does the engine run clean when warmed up?

 

if so,mike is correct,it will only last a few more decades!

I know the fan belt slips a little but after 5 mins she runs fine, the bilge or ''drip tray'' underneath engine was appaulling, I seriously didnt realise how much crap could accoumalate in such a small space!! Had me boiler suit on today should of seen me worse state than me engine lol!! How I would know one of the glow plugs had failed is beyound me, I just pull the choke out and turn the key....9 times out of 10 she starts.....

 

Yes was taken today MJG

[Guest]

Yes was taken today MJG

 

Then it looks normal = hot exhaust gasses meet cold air.

 

You do need to sort your slipping fanbelt though (as in alternator and water pump drive belt) slipping means it is not adjusted correctly and will eventually fail leaving you with no charge and no engine cooling...

[bizzard]

Stick one of those stop smoking patches on it before it becomes too addicted. bizzard.

[Thewatchmaker]

I know the fan belt slips a little but after 5 mins she runs fine, the bilge or ''drip tray'' underneath engine was appaulling, I seriously didnt realise how much crap could accoumalate in such a small space!! Had me boiler suit on today should of seen me worse state than me engine lol!! How I would know one of the glow plugs had failed is beyound me, I just pull the choke out and turn the key....9 times out of 10 she starts.....

 

Yes was taken today MJG

 

Choke?

[Biggles]

Choke?

 

 

Yeh I wondered that.

[Roxy]

Choke?

 

Yes, Engine wont start unless its pulled out - I'll take a pic next weekend and show you. Is this strange then??

[David Schweizer]

Then it looks normal = hot exhaust gasses meet cold air.

 

You do need to sort your slipping fanbelt though (as in alternator and water pump drive belt) slipping means it is not adjusted correctly and will eventually fail leaving you with no charge and no engine cooling...

The Alternator belt looks as if it is the standard 9.5mm belt, if the Alternator is more than 50amp (which it appears to be) the belt will almost certainly slip after starting because of the demand bieing placed upon it.

 

The standard fix is to open out the pulley channels on a lathe and fit a 13mm wide belt to increase the surface area for "grip"

[Tony Brooks]

The Alternator belt looks as if it is the standard 9.5mm belt, if the Alternator is more than 50amp (which it appears to be) the belt will almost certainly slip after starting because of the demand bieing placed upon it.

 

The standard fix is to open out the pulley channels on a lathe and fit a 13mm wide belt to increase the surface area for "grip"

 

 

With a pressed metal water pump pulley? Or are you proposing to let the 13mm belt ride high on the water pump?

 

Could the "choke" be the button that allows the control to rev the engine in neutral?

[Roxy]

With a pressed metal water pump pulley? Or are you proposing to let the 13mm belt ride high on the water pump?

 

Could the "choke" be the button that allows the control to rev the engine in neutral?

 

No Tony I have a silver button that I have to pull out on the control stick as I found out at the weekend (didnt realise it was there until my neighbour showed me lol) Im finding new things out everytime I go to my boat. I even found the handle that enables me to lift the enfield prop out of the water, but not sussed out how as yet...

[David Schweizer]

With a pressed metal water pump pulley? Or are you proposing to let the 13mm belt ride high on the water pump?

 

Could the "choke" be the button that allows the control to rev the engine in neutral?

The Water Pump pulley on our BMC 1.5 engine is die cast, not a steel pressing, which is what also appears to be on Roxy's engine.

 

I have been running a 13mm belt on our engine for more than 5 years now, and without checking I cannot say whether the Water Pump pulley was opened out or not, but it has worked fine so far and we are still on the first belt.

 

The engineer who re-built our engine has an outstanding reputation, and he would not have done it if it would cause problems.

Edited to add:- I have just found a photo of the pulleys on our 1.5, before modification, and the channel on the die cast Pump pulley appears to be wider than the original 9.5 channel on the engine pulley, so maybe it did not need modifying. I will try to uploasd a photo later.

 

Edited October 31, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

Could the "choke" be the button that allows the control to rev the engine in neutral?

 

 

No Tony I have a silver button that I have to pull out on the control stick as I found out at the weekend (didnt realise it was there until my neighbour showed me lol)

 

Roxy - I think Tony is correct, your control sounds similar if not exactly the same as ours. Is the button near the part of the control where it rotates at the base?

 

If so the silver button you pull out disengages the controls ability to move the boat forward or backwards, but still allows you to rev the engine.

[alan_fincher]

No Tony I have a silver button that I have to pull out on the control stick as I found out at the weekend (didnt realise it was there until my neighbour showed me lol) Im finding new things out everytime I go to my boat.

Whatever it is it is certainly not correctly described as a "choke", as diesel engines don't have them.

 

(On the face of it Tony's explanation certainly seems the most likely!).

 

The Alternator belt looks as if it is the standard 9.5mm belt, if the Alternator is more than 50amp (which it appears to be) the belt will almost certainly slip after starting because of the demand bieing placed upon it.

 

The standard fix is to open out the pulley channels on a lathe and fit a 13mm wide belt to increase the surface area for "grip"

We run a 70 amp alternator on a BMC with just the standard 9.5 mm belt and original pulley.

 

Many people do, although I accept engineering wise something beefier is probably no bad thing.

 

I think you can generally get away with it up to a 70 amp alternator, and I doubt the one on Roxy's engine is rated higher than that, (and could well be less, as many alternators that have that body style are lower powered, I think.....)

[David Schweizer]

Whatever it is it is certainly not correctly described as a "choke", as diesel engines don't have them.

 

(On the face of it Tony's explanation certainly seems the most likely!).

 

 

We run a 70 amp alternator on a BMC with just the standard 9.5 mm belt and original pulley.

 

Many people do, although I accept engineering wise something beefier is probably no bad thing.

 

I think you can generally get away with it up to a 70 amp alternator, and I doubt the one on Roxy's engine is rated higher than that, (and could well be less, as many alternators that have that body style are lower powered, I think.....)

It also seems to depend upon the pulley ratio, and whether you have an Alternator Controller fitted, the pulley ratio on our engine is 3:1 which is somewhat higher than that found on many engines. When we start up in the morning after running the fridge, tv etc overnight the bateries are getting a bit low, and the alternator output recorded on the ammeter is 55amps, which used to cause the old 9.5mm belt to scream and shed rubber all over the place. Since machining out the pulleys (the Alternator pulley is actually two widened halves) and fitting the 13mm belt, the problem no longer occurs.

 

I agree that it is difficult to identify the rating of te A127 alternator by simply looking at it. From recollection the length on all sizes is the same , but the diameter increases with higher output. AFIK the smallest you can get is 55amp, which is still significantly higher than the 35amp job originally fitted to these engines.

 

P.S I still have two unused 9.5mm belts which you can have if you want them.

Edited October 31, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Davidss]

I wonder if the 'choke' is in fact an engine stop control (for which a choke cable, complete with label indicator, could be used).

This would mean the choke knob would be pushed home to stop the engine, and why Roxy now has the embedded instruction, to always pull the Choke out, otherwise the engine won't start.

 

Re, how to tell if one or more of the glow plugs have failed.

Two non-technical indicators.

Especially on a cold day, does the engine run unevenly immediately after it starts, then run more smoothly after about 5 seconds?

Again, more noticeable on a cold day. You normally switch the glow plugs on for 'a length of time', then try to start the engine. (How long is this 'length of time'?). If you switch them on as normal, but instead of starting the engine, switch off, then switch the glow plugs on for the same time again, then start the engine, does the engine start any better?

 

Immediate post start unevenness suggests that the plugs need a more technical inspection. There might be another fault.

Better starting after two preheat sessions suggests that the plugs need a more technical inspection, although it may suggest that whatever time period you use now isn't long enough.

Before now I've pre-heated a BMC for 30 seconds to guarantee an immediate start :-)

And yes, I timed the 30 seconds with a wrist watch; it seems to last 'forever'!

 

HTH

Edited October 31, 2011 by Davidss

[alan_fincher]

I wonder if the 'choke' is in fact an engine stop control (for which a choke cable, complete with label indicator, could be used).

This would mean the choke knob would be pushed home to stop the engine, and why Roxy now has the embedded instruction, to always pull the Choke out, otherwise the engine won't start.

I would have thought by far the most usual arrangement on a BMC was to have to pull out an "engine stop" button.

 

I would have thought it not very easy to contrive one that had to be in for "stop" and out for "go".

 

Not impossible though I suppose ?

 

Perhaps Roxy could clarify whether she has a different pull for "engine stop".

 

Roxy - you say this button has to be pulled out to start - do you leave it pulled out when started, and move off with it still pulled out. Or once started, do you push it back in, before moving off ? That might help clarify what it is!

 

(Or a picture, of course!....)

[Thewatchmaker]

I wonder if the 'choke' is in fact an engine stop control (for which a choke cable, complete with label indicator, could be used).

This would mean the choke knob would be pushed home to stop the engine, and why Roxy now has the embedded instruction, to always pull the Choke out, otherwise the engine won't start.

 

Re, how to tell if one or more of the glow plugs have failed.

Two non-technical indicators.

Especially on a cold day, does the engine run unevenly immediately after it starts, then run more smoothly after about 5 seconds?

Again, more noticeable on a cold day. You normally switch the glow plugs on for 'a length of time', then try to start the engine. (How long is this 'length of time'?). If you switch them on as normal, but instead of starting the engine, switch off, then switch the glow plugs on for the same time again, then start the engine, does the engine start any better?

 

Immediate post start unevenness suggests that the plugs need a more technical inspection. There might be another fault.

Better starting after two preheat sessions suggests that the plugs need a more technical inspection, although it may suggest that whatever time period you use now isn't long enough.

Before now I've pre-heated a BMC for 30 seconds to guarantee an immediate start :-)

And yes, I timed the 30 seconds with a wrist watch; it seems to last 'forever'!

 

HTH

 

I only give mine 5 seconds max, not really worried if it starts after a few turns of the starter or not as the turning it over a few times gets the oil round the bearings a bit before it's running.

However once it does fire if the keep the heat on does the smoke go away?

[alan_fincher]

I only give mine 5 seconds max, not really worried if it starts after a few turns of the starter or not as the turning it over a few times gets the oil round the bearings a bit before it's running.

On the other hand the original BMC manual does specifically say to give between 15 and 30 seconds heating when starting these diesels from cold.

 

As someone else observed, 30 seconds seems like a lifetime if you are holding the key over.

 

I have always found the 15 to 30 seconds a bit odd, in that it is generic for either engine size (1500 or 1800), irrespective of whether they have the early type (narrow) heaters or the later (fatter) heaters. The latter draw a much bigger current, so if you are trying to generate a set amount of heat, you would need to apply the power a lot longer on an engine using the older plug type, I would have thought.

 

If it is a 1500 I think it almost invariably has the old plug type, so 30 seconds pre-heat should not be considered excessive, if the engine is found to start better after a long one.

 

However once it does fire if the keep the heat on does the smoke go away?

The original manual says.....

 

"Release the heater plug switch as soon as the engine starts. The heater plug elements will be rapidly destroyed if they are kept switched on while the engine is running".

 

So I would say "don't try this!".

 

The manual can be found Here.

 

On my 1800 (later plug type), if you do a full pre-heat, you can see the current drawn by the plugs falling (if you have an ammeter, of course!), as they heat up. I find this a good timing aid - I watch the needle drop as far as it will quickly fall. At this point, it will usually start almost immediately.

[LEO]

Whatever it is it is certainly not correctly described as a "choke", as diesel engines don't have them.

 

 

hi,

 

The 'choke knob' was always used by ladies to hang their handbags on when driving years ago, not sure what they use now with auto chokes.

 

Leo

[bizzard]

Also Roxy,your boat is somewhat over powered with that engine for 4mph canal speeds,therefore its never under proper load which all engines prefer especially diesels.Because of this you probably have an oily goo build up in your exhaust system which burns off for a while after you've started it up. Take the boat somewhere where there's no speed limit if possible and open it up,its probably capable of about 15mph,it'd do the engine a world of good.

[Evo]

Thats way too much smoke..!!!! Your Starting system is knackered.

 

Battery down....starter motor tired...wires and connections crap...heater plugs.

I go for cranking power, normaly its the starter motor that still works but just hasn't quite got the grunt it used to have.

 

Is your engine turning over a few times on the starter motor before it starts. Does it kind of fire on a couple of cylinders initially before dragging the rest into life. The more it turns over before starting the more it will smoke.

 

The point is if it doesn't smoke like that after 20 seconds running then why does it do it when you first start it.? Its because its going round too many times without firing and chucking the unburnt fuel into the exhaust.

 

When you turn the key to start the engine it should start instantly, say as long as it takes to say the following,,,,brrrrrrrrm...!!!

Edited October 31, 2011 by Evo

[David Schweizer]

Thats way too much smoke..!!!! Your Starting system is knackered.

 

Battery down....starter motor tired...wires and connections crap...heater plugs.

I go for cranking power, normaly its the starter motor that still works but just hasn't quite got the grunt it used to have.

 

Is your engine turning over a few times on the starter motor before it starts. Does it kind of fire on a couple of cylinders initially before dragging the rest into life. The more it turns over before starting the more it will smoke.

 

The point is if it doesn't smoke like that after 20 seconds running then why does it do it when you first start it.? Its because its going round too many times without firing and chucking the unburnt fuel into the exhaust.

 

When you turn the key to start the engine it should start instantly, say as long as it takes to say the following,,,,brrrrrrrrm...!!!

So do you have a BMC 1.5 in your boat that starts immediately without heat, and with no smoke?