Double Mooring

[WotEver]

Tell you what - throw in Chris Pink, and it will be an even more interesting night out! I'm up for it!

I'd like to see Phylis there too

[GUMPY]

Yes, of course. He's getting the traditional CWDF welcome. Those who think they are at the top of the pecking order like to make sure that new people know that.

 

FYI, GD, CarlT is generally well-informed, but he does consider himself to be the godfather of the forum, and likes to be shown the respect that he considers his due.

 

MayallD (exit the dragon) is something of a control freak, who spends hours looking things up so that he can demonstrate his superior knowledge to all and sundry. This has the advantage for forum members that what he says is usually correct, but he's not somebody you would perhaps wish to invite round for dinner. Not if you wanted a convivial evening.

Cotswoldman is a brave colonial boy, who never flinches from offering his opinion on all sorts of matters, even ones he knows very little about. He is rather prone to telling people that they are talking rubbish, and though this is one area where he speaks from experience, he often gets it wrong there too. Whilst Messrs Mayall and Carl see themselves as authority figures, CWM wants to be regarded as wise, hence his carefully chosen avatar. It's rather touching.

 

In fairness, people tell me that Carl and CWM are actually nicer than their on-line personas sometimes suggest. I have yet to hear the same said of Mr Mayall, but nobody is all bad, and no doubt it is just a matter of time before somebody tells me he has a heart of gold and is kind to animals and old ladies. Note that Phylis (the bumptious tupper-sailor) is NOT an old lady.

 

Who can you find here

 

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

[alan_fincher]

I'd like to see Phylis there too

 

Oh hang on - I've just checked my diary, and it seems I'm busy that evening after all......

[mayalld]

I might accept that but I actually doubt a judge would.

 

I think, personally, if you chose to pursue a case of trespass to chattels, because somebody breasted up and kept you waiting for 15 minutes because your boat was obstructing the diesel pump, you'd be laughed out of court.

 

 

Did I ever suggest that I would pursue such a case?

 

Oh, and my boat was not "obstructing the diesel pump".

 

My boat was berthed at the diesel pump for the legitimate purpose of taking on diesel, and remained there until the conclusion of that transaction and not a moment longer.

 

Now, do you have an answer to the question?

[Naughty Cal]

I'd like to see Phylis there too

 

I shall decline that invitation thanks. Better things to do, like wash my hair

 

Oh hang on - I've just checked my diary, and it seems I'm busy that evening after all......

 

So am I

[Albion]

I shall decline that invitation thanks. Better things to do, like wash my hair

 

 

 

So am I

 

Oh, that's definitely reduced the price of the tickets then. Shame, it could have been a great spectator event.

Roger

[mayalld]

Breasting up requires no "interfering" with the other boat at all. Lines fore and aft to the bank and lines fore and aft to the boat, step across the bow. No interfering at all.

 

So, you will moor without touching the other boat, and without needing to tie to the other boat, and will step OVER the bow without touching it, and the other boat will be able to leave unhindered at any time

[Naughty Cal]

So, you will moor without touching the other boat, and without needing to tie to the other boat, and will step OVER the bow without touching it, and the other boat will be able to leave unhindered at any time

 

Stepping over a boat, tying to a boat or touching a boat are not interfering with that boat. And yes you can be the inside boat and leave a raft unhindered, but you dont seem to understand this. It is quite simple really.

[calamity507]

I cannot agree. I think that inviting all three for dinner would make for an interesting and entertaining evening. Of the three, I have only met Carl, and that was just a brief exchange whilst passing him trying to re-float Lucy, but despite disagreeing with all of them at some time, I enjoy their posts (well most of the time), and like Jill, would trust any of them with my life if needed.

I don't know any of them..but in mayalids defence..when our gear box went..he very quickly posted with informative advice..and offers of help.Not that he needs anybody to defend him..of course.

[Sir Nibble]

Stepping over a boat, tying to a boat or touching a boat are not interfering with that boat. And yes you can be the inside boat and leave a raft unhindered, but you dont seem to understand this. It is quite simple really.

High authority would seriously object to you trying to leave the inside mooring under a fueling hose pumping diesel into another boat outside of you. Ask your insurance company again.

[Naughty Cal]

High authority would seriously object to you trying to leave the inside mooring under a fueling hose pumping diesel into another boat outside of you. Ask your insurance company again.

 

Not high authority no, the diesel attendant should though

 

Although i fail to see the problem if you are moored on a diesel berth and have left your boat unattended to pay it is hardly a surprise to find another boat rafted up to you taking on diesel on your return is it? And for the ten minutes or so that you will be waiting, is it really any great problem? You can leave the inside of the raft once the diesel tank is filled and they have gone to pay.

 

Why is this beyond some people?

[Sir Nibble]

I don't know any of them..but in mayalids defence..when our gear box went..he very quickly posted with informative advice..and offers of help.Not that he needs anybody to defend him..of course.

What's to defend? "I cite section 13 of the clusterfu<k act of 1911 to support my argument" is massively preferable to "just because I'm utterly wrong doesn't make my opinion less valid, because the law may change to make me right". With Dave you can bet your arse ('cept me of course) that you will get a rational and supported debate and leave at the least better informed. He's even been responsible for the coining of "the lime green boat argument" for pretending the unanswerable doesn't need answering. Oh yes a fiendish disputant indeed.

[mayalld]

Stepping over a boat, tying to a boat or touching a boat are not interfering with that boat.

 

Er, yes they are.

 

The other boat isn't your property and you have no permission to touch it.

[Laurie Booth]

really? why?

 

Personally I prefer sharing locks. Half the work

All the serious damage or dangerous situations I have had, has always involved sharing a lock.

 

1:- Dented roof. (Still there)

 

2:- Smashed wood burner. (New burner purchased).

 

3:- Jammed in lock twice, BW flushed us out. Very scary!!

 

4:- Bent swan. (Still there).

 

5:- Lots of bashes and scrapes.

 

[Sir Nibble]

Grief Laurie! How did that lot happen? I always prefer sharing simply because a second boat is worth any amount of roping to stop the boat banging about in the lock, especially single handed. Only hassle I have is when the share buggers off before I'm aboard leaving me staring at a boat in the bottom of the lock chamber bang in the middle where I can't reach it.

[alan_fincher]

All the serious damage or dangerous situations I have had, has always involved sharing a lock.

 

1:- Dented roof. (Still there)

 

2:- Smashed wood burner. (New burner purchased).

 

3:- Jammed in lock twice, BW flushed us out. Very scary!!

 

4:- Bent swan. (Still there).

 

5:- Lots of bashes and scrapes.

 

Blimey - you have to be close on the world's most unluckiest narrow boater.

 

How on earth do you get a roof dented, or a wood burner broken in such circumstances ?

 

I'd say the majority of locks we work are broad ones, and we share regularly. I lost a bit of paint on the back of Chalice when the community boat Tarporley tried coming into the side of a lock we were already in, in preference to the empty side, (and could have got injured by my attempts to minimise the damage, thinking about it afterwards), but other than that I can't think of anything else ever likely to involve more than a bit of lost blacking.

 

I can only repeat - you must be incredibly unlucky!

 

EDITED TO ADD: We have already done over 900 locks this year, so it's not a low usage rate that is keeping us out of trouble!

Edited November 10, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Naughty Cal]

Er, yes they are.

 

The other boat isn't your property and you have no permission to touch it.

 

Im sorry but i dont agree. If you rafted up and went and sat in their lounge or raided the fridge that would be a differenct matter. But the act of tying alongside and stepping across a boat is completely different.

 

Did you expect the diesel seller to not sell anymore diesel whilst you were on his fuel berth? It is in his interest to get as many transactions through as possible in a day. Would you really suggest that the boat rafted up was tresspassing simply by pulling alongside to fill with fuel. If you do then there is something seriously amiss in your thought process.

 

There are many cases where rafting up is necessary and in some cases unavoidable. How do you cope in these circumastances. And dont say "i dont get into them" because at some point or another everyone does.

[David Schweizer]

All the serious damage or dangerous situations I have had, has always involved sharing a lock.

 

1:- Dented roof. (Still there)

 

2:- Smashed wood burner. (New burner purchased).

 

3:- Jammed in lock twice, BW flushed us out. Very scary!!

 

4:- Bent swan. (Still there).

 

5:- Lots of bashes and scrapes.

 

You must be either very unlucky , or very careless. I have got stuck in a lock once which was both boats fault, his for having side fenders down, and mine for being 7ft wide, when I thought it was 6ft 10ins.

 

I must admit, I find it difficult to see how a wood burner can be smashed, or a Swans neck be bent by another boat in a lock, and how did the roof get dented?

[Naughty Cal]

All the serious damage or dangerous situations I have had, has always involved sharing a lock.

 

1:- Dented roof. (Still there)

 

2:- Smashed wood burner. (New burner purchased).

 

3:- Jammed in lock twice, BW flushed us out. Very scary!!

 

4:- Bent swan. (Still there).

 

5:- Lots of bashes and scrapes.

 

 

We have found the opposite to be true. Sharing locks reduces the amount the boat moves around in the lock and in our light boats case reducing the amount of times she rattles the wall.

[calamity507]

What's to defend? "I cite section 13 of the clusterfu<k act of 1911 to support my argument" is massively preferable to "just because I'm utterly wrong doesn't make my opinion less valid, because the law may change to make me right". With Dave you can bet your arse ('cept me of course) that you will get a rational and supported debate and leave at the least better informed. He's even been responsible for the coining of "the lime green boat argument" for pretending the unanswerable doesn't need answering. Oh yes a fiendish disputant indeed.

They all scare me to death lol

[mayalld]

I really do share opinions with you.... :lol:

 

 

My opinions are generally uncompromising, and aren't often popular!

 

The only pieces of advice that I can offer are;

 

1. If you choose not to run with the crowd, you need to grow a thick skin (for there is a culture here, even amongst the moderators, that says that if you dare flout the groupthink on any subject, you are fair game).
2. Never forget that if you share the majority opinion, it doesn't matter how crap your arguments are, because there aren't many people to blow them out of the water. If you have a minority view, you need to be damned sure of your position and be able to back it up with facts, because there will always be a groundswell of others who can spot a flaw.
3. Always remember that if there's one thing that annoys people more than having an unpopular view, it is failing to be civil whilst expressing that view.
4. Carl may well be wrong almost all the time, but he does argue his incorrect position well. He doesn't deserve respect simply because of his position as Il Capo di Capi, but because he actually takes the trouble to debate, rather than simply contradict. You may never accept his views, but you may find that you can hone both your views and the way you argue them from debating with him.

 

 

[soldthehouse]

I don't get it...I can be baited, yet can't respond....

 

I can be insulted first and am in the wrong to reply back, generally without stooping to name calling...?

 

I merely asked a question and it's taken out of context.

 

I guess there is literally no way to post without it being twisted. It really is a clique then and you're welcome to join, but don't dare have a difference of opinion, and if attacked, you must back down and go to the naughty step.

 

It's funny, but all the posts that don't involve the so called "respected members" have not tumbled into this furore of status stamping....so I refuse to take all the blame...even though I will be awarded it.

 

 

 

I think that's the problem...the debating team accepts no new members, therefore advice is all you may glean from this forum. I see clearly why there are so many "guests" appearing at the bottom of threads...

 

Like you said, it all pales into insignificance when you look at the state of the world. If they ban me, they do so....I make no excuses for my opinion or defending my point when it is skewed on purpose.

 

Regardless of this it will be taken as baiting, even though it isn't so I expect a backlash once more......

 

 

 

Yup, it should have read fallible....

Sorry for being pedantic and good luck

[mayalld]

Im sorry but i dont agree. If you rafted up and went and sat in their lounge or raided the fridge that would be a differenct matter. But the act of tying alongside and stepping across a boat is completely different.

 

Did you expect the diesel seller to not sell anymore diesel whilst you were on his fuel berth? It is in his interest to get as many transactions through as possible in a day.

 

In which case, he should design his processes to suit.

 

I was on his fuel berth for as long as HIS system required me to be. If he wants to get the next customer on there more quickly, he should ensure that I need not remain once the fuel is in the tank.

 

Do you seriously imagine that every other boat that arrives seeking diesel should have to wait around twiddling his thumbs for 15 minutes after filling up?

[carlt]

 

Now, do you have an answer to the question?

Back from mouse vendor, with replacement mouse...

If I may jump in with my own interpretation here.

 

If you asked the boat to un-breast in order to allow you to leave without dragging his boat down the cut with you and he agreed, even though it will obviously take a finite time for him to untie, I would say that this demonstrates that he had no intention of depriving you of the use of your boat. Therefore, no trespass.

 

If, on the other hand, he refused to untie immediately and told you to wait, then he IS depriving you of the use of your boat and a trespass has been committed.

 

 

Wot he sed ^^^^^^

 

Er, yes they are.

 

The other boat isn't your property and you have no permission to touch it.

That is not what the definition of Trespass to chattels is, though, Dave.

 

There has to be intent to deprive you of said chattel for a period of time. Touching your boat does not fulfil that requirement.

[Laurie Booth]

You must be either very unlucky , or very careless. I have got stuck in a lock once which was both boats fault, his for having side fenders down, and mine for being 7ft wide, when I thought it was 6ft 10ins.

 

I must admit, I find it difficult to see how a wood burner can be smashed, or a Swans neck be bent by another boat in a lock, and how did the roof get dented?

 

Wood burner :- Somerton Deep single lock going uphill. We are in front, other boat crew open top paddles really fast, I mean both up in seconds! My boat rushes forward hits cill followed by the boat behind hitting me. Wood burner smashed off its base along with stove pipe/chimney. I didn't see the damage until later.

 

Jammed in lock :- Side fenders down on the other boat.

 

Bent Swan neck :- Again going uphill, paddles opened to quickly by other crew. Boat behind me (GRP Cruiser with steel front railing) smashes into my swan.

 

Dented roof :- In lock, side by side with another boat, going uphill. One of the crew operating the lock decides he wants two get two bikes to the other side of the lock, as I am going up, he picks up the two bikes (heavy old things)and jumps down onto my roof with them, causing the roof to get dented.

 

That's why I hate sharing locks.