Double Mooring

[deletedaccount]

I must admit I hate sharing locks with other boats.

 

really? why?

 

Personally I prefer sharing locks. Half the work

[Guest]

I must admit I hate sharing locks with other boats.

 

Pray tell....why

 

really? why?

 

Personally I prefer sharing locks. Half the work

 

Plus the witty repartee one can engage in....bit like here....

[sam pig]

No, it is because he made provocative and/or offensive comments in another thread and then dragged the argument into this one despite a number of us trying to deflect him. The issues that he chosen to comment on are long-standing areas of disagreement which he has descended onto and unerringly opened a number of old forum wounds. I think it's safe to say that I've rarely seen so many old protagonists so united. It is utterly untrue to to say that this forum is unwelcoming to new folk and the main decriers of his behaviour are people with whom I may not necessarily agree but would trust my life to in an emergency.

 

It's his utter lack of decorum and sensitivity that I object to not the fact hat he's new. We could think about it like this - I arrive at a new pub for a music session clutching my concertina. Do I play loudly over everyone else determined to show my spangly brilliance and mastery of my instrument in the hope of showing up the regulars' utter lack of skill and dexterity? Nope, because that's rude and frankly, I'm no better than them and often a lot worse so I listen and play along gently, working out where I can add to the mix and when to stay silent. It's the same here.

 

 

But it just is not the same. Your are drawing on the analogy of a real life scenario, and comparing it to some of the nastiness frequently spouted on here as on many other forums. I hate the term "Keyboard warrior" but it is what happens.

 

People are provocative, controversial and sometimes plain and simply bullies because it is safe to do that fron a computer..

 

The classic line earlier "Learn from the experienced posters"! It is like there is a chain of command on an internet forum. Ludicrous

[sebrof]

Can someone explain what this is all about? I've looked through the thread and can't really find anything very cotroversial in Guitar Doctor's posts. At least nothing more offensive that the usual arguments. Is it because he is relativley new?

 

Yes, of course. He's getting the traditional CWDF welcome. Those who think they are at the top of the pecking order like to make sure that new people know that.

 

FYI, GD, CarlT is generally well-informed, but he does consider himself to be the godfather of the forum, and likes to be shown the respect that he considers his due.

 

MayallD (exit the dragon) is something of a control freak, who spends hours looking things up so that he can demonstrate his superior knowledge to all and sundry. This has the advantage for forum members that what he says is usually correct, but he's not somebody you would perhaps wish to invite round for dinner. Not if you wanted a convivial evening.

 

Cotswoldman is a brave colonial boy, who never flinches from offering his opinion on all sorts of matters, even ones he knows very little about. He is rather prone to telling people that they are talking rubbish, and though this is one area where he speaks from experience, he often gets it wrong there too. Whilst Messrs Mayall and Carl see themselves as authority figures, CWM wants to be regarded as wise, hence his carefully chosen avatar. It's rather touching.

 

In fairness, people tell me that Carl and CWM are actually nicer than their on-line personas sometimes suggest. I have yet to hear the same said of Mr Mayall, but nobody is all bad, and no doubt it is just a matter of time before somebody tells me he has a heart of gold and is kind to animals and old ladies. Note that Phylis (the bumptious tupper-sailor) is NOT an old lady.

[carlt]

People are provocative, controversial and sometimes plain and simply bullies because it is safe to do that fron a computer..

You are describing perfectly what guitardoctor tried to do, when presented with facts that proved his assertions wrong.

[carlt]

I think I'll return to my old broken mouse...at least I didn't have to keep editing out double postings.

Edited November 10, 2011 by carlt

[mayalld]

Getting back to the original post though Dave, as the area in front of Pennine is always congested with boats and as boats are always breasting up to fill with fuel and do pump-outs, don't you think it was unreasonable of the first guy to refuse the other permission to breast up while he fuelled up (unless, of course, he was just about to set off himself)? The reaction of the one refused was obviously OTT but that's a different matter.

Roger

 

I don't think that we have sufficient information to decide whether or not it was reasonable.

 

I know that on our previous mooring, we got heartily sick of boats waiting to use the diesel banging into us whilst attempting to breast up. Some days, we were clouted heavily by 2 or 3 boats.

 

Now you might say "Well the mooring is congested, so it's only reasonable to let people moor alongside you" or "it isn't as if its causing major damage", but the simple fact is that the mooring provider should have provided adequate space for boats to pull in for diesel, not expecting people who've paid for a mooring to also provide a landing stage for him.

 

I ended up with tyres along the off-side, and "No mooring or waiting alongside" signs in the windows.

 

So, I actually think that it can be perfectly reasonable to refuse.

 

Then he is, arguably, committing trespass to chattels because, as I said, there is intent to deprive you of them.

 

You are merely citing an example that proves my point, not yours.

 

How so?

 

He has offered to let me out at some future point in time, but not immediately.

[sam pig]

You know, not many months ago,I got well and truly flamed on here for asking if anyone was up the Langollen and whether it was busy? I wouldnt mind but the "flamers" were not even near the Langollen...

[carlt]

FYI, GD, CarlT is generally well-informed, but he does consider himself to be the godfather of the forum, and likes to be shown the respect that he considers his due.

This is quite simply rubbish.

 

I expect no respect and far prefer intelligent argument to cap-doffing acquiescence.

 

I can type and post one reply at a time, just like everyone else, and if people do not like what I type and post, they are free to ignore me.

 

If anyone does afford me any respect then I am grateful, and humbled, and I would hope that is because it it is earned for what I have contributed, not just by being here a long time.

 

Your words are no better than what a minority of members accuse me of...Pot, kettle, black!

 

How so?

 

He has offered to let me out at some future point in time, but not immediately.

Because you are able to demonstrate that he deprived you of your chattel for a period of time.

 

Have we switched sides here?

Edited November 10, 2011 by carlt

[mayalld]

MayallD (exit the dragon) is something of a control freak, who spends hours looking things up so that he can demonstrate his superior knowledge to all and sundry. This has the advantage for forum members that what he says is usually correct, but he's not somebody you would perhaps wish to invite round for dinner. Not if you wanted a convivial evening.

 

Sorry to say that I don't spend hours looking anything up.

 

Most of it I know, and when I need to find something out, I can usually find it in seconds.

 

I can't comment on my suitability as an evening guest.

[sam pig]

Hey Guitar Doctor, I am in Northwich also..

 

Perhaps we could have a pint in the Stanley Arms in the not too distant future and see what other internet folk are really like.

 

We may even be cordial and civil to one another. There are quite a few boaters who drink in there. A large grey beard is not eseential but it seems to grease the wheels in regard to the chain of command / pecking order... You know, a kind of "Gandalf" respect vibe..

[mayalld]

Because you are able to demonstrate that he deprived you of your chattel for a period of time.

 

Have we switched sides here?

 

Not yet. We'll do that when it gets boring.

 

OK, so you accept that depriving me of its use for a relatively trivial length of time IS a trespass.

 

Can I pose the question then;

 

"At what point would you say that de minimis comes into play, such that the detention of the boat ceases to be a trespass" (hope you enjoyed the Latin there).

 

You may wish to consider that releasing a boat trapped by breasting up will consist of two distinct phases from the request being made; The time taken to initiate action to release the other boat and the time taken to complete that action.

[David Schweizer]

Yes, of course. He's getting the traditional CWDF welcome. Those who think they are at the top of the pecking order like to make sure that new people know that.

 

FYI, GD, CarlT is generally well-informed, but he does consider himself to be the godfather of the forum, and likes to be shown the respect that he considers his due.

 

MayallD (exit the dragon) is something of a control freak, who spends hours looking things up so that he can demonstrate his superior knowledge to all and sundry. This has the advantage for forum members that what he says is usually correct, but he's not somebody you would perhaps wish to invite round for dinner. Not if you wanted a convivial evening.

 

Cotswoldman is a brave colonial boy, who never flinches from offering his opinion on all sorts of matters, even ones he knows very little about. He is rather prone to telling people that they are talking rubbish, and though this is one area where he speaks from experience, he often gets it wrong there too. Whilst Messrs Mayall and Carl see themselves as authority figures, CWM wants to be regarded as wise, hence his carefully chosen avatar. It's rather touching.

 

In fairness, people tell me that Carl and CWM are actually nicer than their on-line personas sometimes suggest. I have yet to hear the same said of Mr Mayall, but nobody is all bad, and no doubt it is just a matter of time before somebody tells me he has a heart of gold and is kind to animals and old ladies. Note that Phylis (the bumptious tupper-sailor) is NOT an old lady.

I cannot agree. I think that inviting all three for dinner would make for an interesting and entertaining evening. Of the three, I have only met Carl, and that was just a brief exchange whilst passing him trying to re-float Lucy, but despite disagreeing with all of them at some time, I enjoy their posts (well most of the time), and like Jill, would trust any of them with my life if needed.

[Mac of Cygnet]

FYI, GD, CarlT is generally well-informed, but he does consider himself to be the godfather of the forum, and likes to be shown the respect that he considers his due.

 

MayallD (exit the dragon) is something of a control freak, who spends hours looking things up so that he can demonstrate his superior knowledge to all and sundry.

 

Cotswoldman is a brave colonial boy, who never flinches from offering his opinion on all sorts of matters, even ones he knows very little about.

.

 

Do you think this is the Forum Triumvirate, then? Or are you proposing to offer your candid opinions of other prominent members? Of course the Fourth Musketeer has flounced off, so already has attracted comments in his absence.

 

Edited to say the only one I have met is CWM, and was extremely disappointed that he is entirely unlike his avatar.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Mac of Cygnet

[David Schweizer]

theguitardoctor,Triumphtone,sam pig,wirren,mayalld,David Schweizer,Mac of Cygnet,stickleback,waggers,Springer Skipper,nigel carton,Secret Garden,Albion,peter n,Allan(nb Albert),cereal tiller,DaveC,wanted,stewey,Rebotco,twinpot,AJLintern

 

At least it's entertaining people eh....!! l

NOt quite sure what I am being accused of here, but if is being entertained, I must admit that MJG's observation amused me

 

If you need to check yours a glance in the mirror should do it, it's that thing at the top of your neck.

Edited November 10, 2011 by David Schweizer

[carlt]

Not yet. We'll do that when it gets boring.

 

OK, so you accept that depriving me of its use for a relatively trivial length of time IS a trespass.

 

I might accept that but I actually doubt a judge would.

 

I think, personally, if you chose to pursue a case of trespass to chattels, because somebody breasted up and kept you waiting for 15 minutes because your boat was obstructing the diesel pump, you'd be laughed out of court.

[carlt]

Now would it be justifiable homicide if I went and killed the computer shop owner, for selling me this mouse?

Edited November 10, 2011 by carlt

[Guest]

Is it your mouse or your internet connection??

[Ange]

No, it is because he made provocative and/or offensive comments in another thread and then dragged the argument into this one despite a number of us trying to deflect him. The issues that he chosen to comment on are long-standing areas of disagreement which he has descended onto and unerringly opened a number of old forum wounds. I think it's safe to say that I've rarely seen so many old protagonists so united. It is utterly untrue to to say that this forum is unwelcoming to new folk and the main decriers of his behaviour are people with whom I may not necessarily agree but would trust my life to in an emergency.

 

It's his utter lack of decorum and sensitivity that I object to not the fact hat he's new. We could think about it like this - I arrive at a new pub for a music session clutching my concertina. Do I play loudly over everyone else determined to show my spangly brilliance and mastery of my instrument in the hope of showing up the regulars' utter lack of skill and dexterity? Nope, because that's rude and frankly, I'm no better than them and often a lot worse so I listen and play along gently, working out where I can add to the mix and when to stay silent. It's the same here.

 

Well said Wriggly, I totally agree.

[carlt]

Is it your mouse or your internet connection??

It didn't happen with my old mouse (with a broken left button) and I'm on a superfast broadband connection so there is no delay between clicking and posting.

 

I may still be being too heavy handed with it and just have to get used to not having to hit the button so hard.

[WotEver]

"At what point would you say that de minimis comes into play, such that the detention of the boat ceases to be a trespass" (hope you enjoyed the Latin there).

 

You may wish to consider that releasing a boat trapped by breasting up will consist of two distinct phases from the request being made; The time taken to initiate action to release the other boat and the time taken to complete that action.

If I may jump in with my own interpretation here.

 

If you asked the boat to un-breast in order to allow you to leave without dragging his boat down the cut with you and he agreed, even though it will obviously take a finite time for him to untie, I would say that this demonstrates that he had no intention of depriving you of the use of your boat. Therefore, no trespass.

 

If, on the other hand, he refused to untie immediately and told you to wait, then he IS depriving you of the use of your boat and a trespass has been committed.

 

Yes? No?

 

Tony

[alan_fincher]

I cannot agree. I think that inviting all three for dinner would make for an interesting and entertaining evening. Of the three, I have only met Carl, and that was just a brief exchange whilst passing him trying to re-float Lucy, but despite disagreeing with all of them at some time, I enjoy their posts (well most of the time), and like Jill, would trust any of them with my life if needed.

I totally agree.

 

I have met Carl (long time back) and Cotswoldman (more recently), but never Dave, and I actually thing sitting over a meal with Carl, John and Dave would make for a very entertaining evening.

 

Despite Carl and Dave regularly being on completely different poles of a particular argument very frequently, they can both argue their case maturely with most people, (there have been exceptions!), and I can't see it being anything other than a good natured event. I don't think we would necessarily end the evening with consensus on BW's powers, for instance, though!

 

But then as I'm almost surprised not to have made it on to the bad boys list myself, (I don't know whether to be relieved or offended!), I would say that wouldn't I!

 

Tell you what - throw in Chris Pink, and it will be an even more interesting night out! I'm up for it!

[WotEver]

It didn't happen with my old mouse (with a broken left button) and I'm on a superfast broadband connection so there is no delay between clicking and posting.

 

Probably the mouse giving a false double-click.

 

Try Ctrl+Enter instead.

 

Tony

[Guest]

It didn't happen with my old mouse (with a broken left button) and I'm on a superfast broadband connection so there is no delay between clicking and posting.

 

I may still be being too heavy handed with it and just have to get used to not having to hit the button so hard.

 

Fairy nuff - wasn't sure you weren't dangling of a dongle at the mo - that's when it happens to me.

[Naughty Cal]

Trespass to Chattels does indeed require an intent to interfere. I fail to see how a deliberate act of breasting to another boat could fail to have the requisite intent to interfere.

 

Surely nobody could actually imagine that breasting up can be done without interfering with the other boat, or the owners use of that other boat.

 

Breasting up requires no "interfering" with the other boat at all. Lines fore and aft to the bank and lines fore and aft to the boat, step across the bow. No interfering at all.