Moorings Management Proposals

[steelaway]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

 

By the Summer BW will create 6 new "Neighborhoods" in the region covering the above waterways. Large chunks will be 7 day moorings and overstays will have Mooring Charges payable - £20 in advance, or £40 if invoiced afterwards. The entire stretch from the Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 North Circular is one neighborhood.

 

They will enforce by daily patrols!!!!!Any boat may not in 12 calendar months spend more than a total of 61 days in any neighborhood, unless it has a home mooring in that neighborhood.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

edited to add, They spelt it River Lee, not me.

 

 

 

 

I'm confused by this £20 in advance charge.

Does this mean for £20 per day you can have continuous mooring at your designated mooring spot? If so when does the length of time in one neighborhood kick in

If you are not aboard when the fine is issued, does it automaticaly become £40?

 

Alex

[canaldrifter]

 

 

It's going to be a big job, especially when you don't recognise that negotiation is part of protest and is done in public.

 

I recognise that my job will be to correct the unfounded misapprehensions about Nabo that are habitually perpetuated on forums such as this by sideline snipers such as yourself.

 

Tone

[boatfairy]

Try this one in the mix

What if you have to have an operation (say for instance new Hip Joint) there is the time in hospital, recovery period, physio, checks ups.

This could take a few months of overstay near to a hospital (Hot Spot) be cause you are going to need hard surface to use a wheelchair then to start walking on).

Pensioners do not always receive £200 per week to pay for overstay fees so what will BW do then move your boat to another neighbourhood for 7 days and back for your next appointment at the hospital ?

What about in a harsh winter and you are still prepared to move about (break ice if you can) are BW going to add an overstay charge to your next licence fee without telling you ?

If BW disrupt your journey with repairs and works will they give you a discount or again add fees for overstay ?

Interesting thoughts dont you think /??? Maggie

[carlt]

I recognise that my job will be to correct the unfounded misapprehensions about Nabo that are habitually perpetuated on forums such as this by sideline snipers such as yourself.

 

Funny thing is, Tone, that's just the opposite of what you do.

 

You have provided no evidence to quash my criticism, merely aimed irrelevant insults at me.

 

I am a member of several organisations that have proven themselves to be worthy of my money.

 

Why do you think, as a keen boater and an opinionated one, at that, have I left the boating organisations, I was once a member of, yet continued with membership of the others, I subscribe to?

 

It is, put simply, because the NABO has proven itself to be an impotent talking shop that is derided by many and supported by few.

 

Even its members criticise it, which you have dismissed as the unsubstantiated comments of individuals.

 

Prove me wrong and you'll get my membership subs, but just dismiss me as a "sideline sniper" and you are proving me right.

Edited March 5, 2011 by carlt

[Albion]

Carl... the above sounds more like a criticism of Save Our Waterways, that started as a protest organisation and then went soft (which is why I left) than of Nabo.

Tone

 

 

I recognise that my job will be to correct the unfounded misapprehensions about Nabo that are habitually perpetuated on forums such as this by sideline snipers such as yourself.

Tone

 

Do you not think that there is a certain irony about these two posts?

Tony, you have spent several years being a sideline sniper about SOW during your time on NBW (before you fell out with Victor), on UKrec.waterways and on other posts here on CWDF, including the one on here just the other day (quoted above)and yet you have the nerve to criticise Carl for daring to criticise NABO in a much more constructive way. Don't do as I do, do as I say! Pots and Kettles etc!!!

Roger

[steelaway]

Try this one in the mix

What if you have to have an operation (say for instance new Hip Joint) there is the time in hospital, recovery period, physio, checks ups.

This could take a few months of overstay near to a hospital (Hot Spot) be cause you are going to need hard surface to use a wheelchair then to start walking on).

Pensioners do not always receive £200 per week to pay for overstay fees so what will BW do then move your boat to another neighbourhood for 7 days and back for your next appointment at the hospital ?

What about in a harsh winter and you are still prepared to move about (break ice if you can) are BW going to add an overstay charge to your next licence fee without telling you ?

If BW disrupt your journey with repairs and works will they give you a discount or again add fees for overstay ?

Interesting thoughts dont you think /??? Maggie

 

 

This had me thinking about lock closures.

If there if maintenance on a lock, denying movement between neighbourhoods, will BW stop issuing fines/ mooring charges to the overstayers.

If so - it would seem to be encouraging some ruthless people to start sabotaging locks.

 

Alex

[canaldrifter]

Do you not think that there is a certain irony about these two posts?

Tony, you have spent several years being a sideline sniper about SOW during your time on NBW (before you fell out with Victor), on UKrec.waterways and on other posts here on CWDF, including the one on here just the other day (quoted above)and yet you have the nerve to criticise Carl for daring to criticise NABO in a much more constructive way. Don't do as I do, do as I say! Pots and Kettles etc!!!

Roger

 

I don't deny being critical. For good reason. My criticism had some subtance to it. The difference being I was actually involved in the organisations that I criticised for quite a long time in quite a high profile way. That does not make me a hypocritical sideline sniper.

 

I didn't fall out with Victor on NBW. I fell out with the editor after he rubbished me to a client. Victor is a figment of the editor's imagination, who has been his close friend since childhood. Bit worrying really!

 

Tone

Edited March 5, 2011 by canaldrifter

[Albion]

I don't deny being critical. For good reason. The difference being I was actually involved in the organisations that I criticised for quite a long time in quite a high profile way. That does not make me a hypocritical sideline sniper.

 

I didn't fall out with Victor on NBW. I fell out with the editor after he rubbished me to a client. Victor is a figment of the editor's imagination, who has been his close friend since childhood. Bit worrying really!

 

Tone

 

Err, not with SOW you weren't. You took your ball home when you weren't voted on to the steering committee and, ever after that (other than your sponsored cruise around the waterways, supposedly recruiting members), you never missed an opportunity to criticise in a most vituperative way. There is absolutely no difference in the way you perceive Carl's criticism of NABO and what you actually did concerning SOW, no difference at all.

Roger

Edited March 5, 2011 by Albion

[canaldrifter]

Err, not with SOW you weren't. You took your ball home when you weren't voted on to the steering committee and, ever after that (other than your sponsored cruise around the waterways, supposedly recruiting members), you never missed an opportunity to criticise in a most vituperative way. There is absolutely no difference in the way you perceive Carl's criticism of NABO and what you actually did concerning SOW, no difference at all.

Roger

 

You were not party to the meetings I had with Will long before he put SOW back by six months while he invented his constitution, or to the promises he made me....

 

Had SOW remained a protest organisation then the advertising cruise could have produced more members. But, it was turned into a poor man's Nabo. When I was kept off the committee because of my views I gave up, and I will still say that SOW is misguided in its policies. Just how many members does it have now? 200?

 

If Carl thinks Nabo is a small club, then SOW certainly is.

 

One thing I have learnt over many years of sticking my head above the parapet is that you get shied at. Fortunately I've also developed a hide like a coconut shell....

 

I have also kept a sense of humour, unlike some.....

 

Tone

[carlt]

 

I have also kept a sense of humour, unlike some.....

 

Not evident in some of your responses to my comments (not even aimed at you, personally)

[canaldrifter]

Not evident in some of your responses to my comments (not even aimed at you, personally)

 

That's the problem with forums. You can't see the laughter lines, nor the smiles.

 

Tone

 

Edited to suggest that we keep this exchange off this thread, now. It is a distraction from an important situation.

Edited March 5, 2011 by canaldrifter

[Albion]

You were not party to the meetings I had with Will long before he put SOW back by six months while he invented his constitution, or to the promises he made me....

 

Had SOW remained a protest organisation then the advertising cruise could have produced more members. But, it was turned into a poor man's Nabo. When I was kept off the committee because of my views I gave up, and I will still say that SOW is misguided in its policies. Just how many members does it have now? 200?

 

If Carl thinks Nabo is a small club, then SOW certainly is.

 

One thing I have learnt over many years of sticking my head above the parapet is that you get shied at. Fortunately I've also developed a hide like a coconut shell....

 

I have also kept a sense of humour, unlike some.....

 

Tone

Don't be so sure. We knew exactly what was going on

Why am I reminded of Kenneth Williams, "Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me"?

Probably much, much less than that now. But SOW was only ever expected to be a short lived response to Defra's BW funding cuts (while David Miliband was head of Defra). It was never ever intended to be a permanent organisation as you well know, but never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Roger

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Damien Kemp has blogged regarding the L&S meetings -

 

The blog

 

I would suggest that anyone wishing to comment reads BW's guidelines first. After complaints that BW were withholding comments that they did not like with regards to Robbin Evans blogs, I believe this is no longer a problem.

[canaldrifter]

See the SOW thread.

 

Tone

Edited March 5, 2011 by canaldrifter

[Allan(nb Albert)]

So why is it still there then, struggling along with a miserably low ineffectual membership? Will's little ego trip?

 

Tone

 

Perhaps because, despite the denials from SOW and BW, it took £5000 of BW's money (or should that be our money) and has to pay it back somehow.

 

Narrowboatworld article

[Albion]

Perhaps because, despite the denials from SOW and BW, it took £5000 of BW's money (or should that be our money) and has to pay it back somehow.

 

Narrowboatworld article

 

Quite how are you claiming that SOW took a £5000 donation from BW when the addendum states specifically that no money was given or accepted escapes me. Have you proof that both BW and Will Chapman are lying?

Roger

[jenlyn]

Quite how are you claiming that SOW took a £5000 donation from BW when the addendum states specifically that no money was given or accepted escapes me. Have you proof that both BW and Will Chapman are lying?

Roger

some of you seem to have lost the topic of the thread

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Quite how are you claiming that SOW took a £5000 donation from BW when the addendum states specifically that no money was given or accepted escapes me. Have you proof that both BW and Will Chapman are lying?

Roger

 

I am not making such a claim!

 

However, when Narrowboatworld first asked Will Chapman if there was any basis in rumours that SOW had accepted money from BW due to declining membership it was met with a flat denial. Certainly, we were not told that £5000 had been offered and accepted.

 

Only when we produced minutes of a meeting that showed that a 'no strings' offer had been made and accepted did Chapman confirm that this was the case.

 

The denials that money had actually changed hands were faithfully reported.

 

To me, it is of less importance that money changed hands than that it was offered and accepted.

[canaldrifter]

I am not making such a claim!

 

However, when Narrowboatworld first asked Will Chapman if there was any basis in rumours that SOW had accepted money from BW due to declining membership it was met with a flat denial. Certainly, we were not told that £5000 had been offered and accepted.

 

Only when we produced minutes of a meeting that showed that a 'no strings' offer had been made and accepted did Chapman confirm that this was the case.

 

The denials that money had actually changed hands were faithfully reported.

 

To me, it is of less importance that money changed hands than that it was offered and accepted.

 

Can I respectfully ask again that we take this SOW discussion out of this thread, please?

 

Tone

[Allan(nb Albert)]

some of you seem to have lost the topic of the thread

 

Perhaps not.

 

I think you will find that SOW (or Waterwaywatch as it is now called) is very active in moorings management.

[jenlyn]

Perhaps not.

 

I think you will find that SOW (or Waterwaywatch as it is now called) is very active in moorings management.

well go and do some then. . . . . its probably a s%$t job, but someone has to do it

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Can I respectfully ask again that we take this SOW discussion out of this thread, please?

 

Tone

 

Ok by me. They are a spent force.

 

In case anyone missed it by the thread going off topic, Damien Kemp has blogged regarding the L&S meetings -

 

This week weve been holding public meetings about the management of moorings on the River Lee. There was a really good turnout, with 125-plus attendees on the first night and around 150 on the second night, but I'd be lying if I said they were the most enjoyable evenings I've ever spent!

We knew there were strong opinions about our proposals, and attendees left us in no doubt about the strength of feeling among different river users. In the end though we had a good balance of the different points of view and the feedback we have had since has been really encouraging. Of course this is just the beginning of the consultation but it has been encouraging that so many people are keen to be involved in finding a constructive way forward.

After the meetings we received a lot of messages of support and encouragement. Some people didn't necessarily agree with the proposals but wanted to thank us for holding the meetings and being so open, while others were very supportive of the need to develop a new mooring plan for the river. I think that there's a genuine willingness from all parties to work together to achieve a good result for everyone involved. It wasn't necessarily a 'nice' process to go through but the value of holding these meetings easily outweighs the discomfort that we experienced.

As we understand it, boaters will now hold their own meeting this weekend and decide how they want to progress things. One of the important lessons we took away is that we need to keep talking so that we can work constructively with all those who want to be involved in order to reach the best, and fairest, possible outcome.

We know we've not enforced the 14-day rule in the past as well as we might and we want to work with boaters - of all types - to put this right. We can't develop strategies and plans in isolation and just expect them to be a success - we need to work co-operatively with all parties to find the middle ground. Sally talked about the apparent lack of mutual trust and I simply don't accept that it has to continue - we're determined to work hard to prove that we listen, that we care and most of all we wholeheartedly value the contribution of all river users make to keeping the waterways vibrant and popular.

 

If you want to comment on the blog -

 

Click here

 

It you do comment, it might be worthwhile asking that your comments are fed into the consultation.

[neil]

 

What about in a harsh winter and you are still prepared to move about (break ice if you can) are BW going to add an overstay charge to your next licence fee without telling you ?

If BW disrupt your journey with repairs and works will they give you a discount or again add fees for overstay ?

Interesting thoughts dont you think /??? Maggie

 

 

hmmm, good point, if BW have the cheek to try and charge CCers £20/40 a day if they dont move apx 10 miles each week 52 weeks of the year; then surely we should charge them a simular amount if any stoppages deny us the opportunity to move to our own timetable!! Neilboat

[Phoenix_V]

From the BW website, the consultation period on the proposals has been extended

 

"We've had an excellent response to date but in light of extraordinary events – spate of public holidays and local government elections – we've pushed back the deadline to 31st May to ensure that all interested parties have ample opportunity to respond."

 

Having followed this it seems to me that the local resident boaters have submitted numerous comments supporting their position as have those leisure boaters who are all for clearing the towpaths.

 

There seem to be relatively few responses regarding those aspects of the plan which will affect the rest of us.

i.e. the right to moor for 14 days removed from a large part of the rivers and the redefinition of place to give only 6 on the entire river.

Also the punitive overstaying charges.

 

Just a suggestion but maybe boaters from other parts of the system who anticipate visiting the Lea and Stort and might be affected by this whether continuous cruiser or not might care to submit a response to the consultation!

[ymu]

Perhaps we should pilot the new rules with a month long game of musical moorings, strictly obeying the new rules, of course. See how many days it takes to drain a few key pounds and leave everyone stranded.