gas

[mayalld]

It isnt nit picking. Its David making things up so that he can have silly arguments about the things he has made up. The usual order of the day, really

 

Phylis, dearie,

 

you are advocating getting DIY gas installation checked by a professional (you suggest that there is no harm in doing so, but there is - to the wallet)

 

Would you suggest that a boater who has had a professional installation should do the same with regards to having it checked or not?

[Naughty Cal]

Phylis, dearie,

 

you are advocating getting DIY gas installation checked by a professional (you suggest that there is no harm in doing so, but there is - to the wallet)

 

Would you suggest that a boater who has had a professional installation should do the same with regards to having it checked or not?

 

I am not advocating anything David. I was suggesting that there is no harm in getting your own work checked over, which there isnt. That doesnt mean taht you have to, nor does it mean that i believe you should, despite what you seem to be making up in your own little world.

[mayalld]

I am not advocating anything David. I was suggesting that there is no harm in getting your own work checked over, which there isnt. That doesnt mean taht you have to, nor does it mean that i believe you should, despite what you seem to be making up in your own little world.

 

OK then, perhaps you would expand upon your views?

 

Do you think that people doing DIY gas work SHOULD have it checked by a professional?

[alan_fincher]

Hi All. Can I run a new gas supply on the boat myself or have I got to be gas safe reg.

 

You can do it yourself, provided you are competent.

 

Do the work yourself (If you are competent of course), but get it signed off by a gas-safe member. They will do a gas test for you, equivalent to that done as part of a BSC.

 

Despite post after post of the typical Dave versus Phylis drivel, (which has probably driven even the OP away!), I don't actually believe the original answers are completely correct, are they ?

 

You can do the work yourself, if you are competent, and the boat is not going to be used as your principal residence.

 

If the boat is your main home, then different rules apply, I believe. I think the installation has to then be done by a qualified person, and just having a DIY job checked by them may not be enough. (Possibly there are ways around it, that are semi-legal, but that's another matter!....)

[Naughty Cal]

OK then, perhaps you would expand upon your views?

 

Do you think that people doing DIY gas work SHOULD have it checked by a professional?

 

[image removed]

Edited February 2, 2011 by NB Alnwick
inappropriate image removed.

[mayalld]

Despite post after post of the typical Dave versus Phylis drivel, (which has probably driven even the OP away!), I don't actually believe the original answers are completely correct, are they ?

 

You can do the work yourself, if you are competent, and the boat is not going to be used as your principal residence.

 

If the boat is your main home, then different rules apply, I believe. I think the installation has to then be done by a qualified person, and just having a DIY job checked by them may not be enough. (Possibly there are ways around it, that are semi-legal, but that's another matter!....)

 

I have heard mention of rules regarding main home, but (because they don't apply to us) I have never investigated further.

 

Can anybody cite what the rules are?

[alan_fincher]

I have heard mention of rules regarding main home, but (because they don't apply to us) I have never investigated further.

 

Can anybody cite what the rules are?

Fairly certain that one of the several Corgi (now Gas Safe) engineers on here, (NB Mike, possibly ?), spelt out their interpretation of all the rules.

 

Damned if I can find the relevant post, though!

 

There has always seemed to me to be the anomaly that someone can buy my "comptetent person" fitted boat, but then start to use it as their main residence, but they could not then do further gas work on it themselves, even if "competent".

[Gibbo]

There has always seemed to me to be the anomaly that someone can buy my "comptetent person" fitted boat, but then start to use it as their main residence, but they could not then do further gas work on it themselves, even if "competent".

 

A similar problem arises with electrical work. Anyone can do 230 volt wiring on a boat. But if the boat is someone's "residence" then the electrican has to be Part P cert. which is almost a guarantee that he'll know sod all about boats and galvanic corrosion etc.

[romarni123]

[inappropriate image removed]

 

 

Excellent

Edited February 2, 2011 by NB Alnwick
inappropriate image removed

[Speedwheel]

I have heard mention of rules regarding main home, but (because they don't apply to us) I have never investigated further.

 

Can anybody cite what the rules are?

 

Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998

 

Excellent

 

Made me chuckle too.

[mikevye]

Frankly, having SEEN some jobs done by people who are certified.....

 

I know that an installation that I do myself is sound, and I know that I tested it. That installation is both legal and safe.

 

The idea that using a professional makes an explosion less likely is nonsense.

 

You are one of a handful of forum members on this website who would have an argument in an empty room you also typically also suffer from selective memory loss choosing to remember points which assist your view and forgetting all other comments. My viewpoint was purely a comment about the likelyhood of an insurance company honouring a claim if a gas system was installed by a non accredited engineer.

 

PS filis please don't hate me I haven't had a glass of wine for over a week!!

[mayalld]

Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998

 

Those are the regulations that impose the CORGI/GasSafe registration [reg 3(3)], but they do nothing to prevent "own account" work by competent people who are not registered [reg 3(1)].

 

I am looking for specific regulations that mean that if a boat is a principal residence, DIY isn't an option

[Speedwheel]

Those are the regulations that impose the CORGI/GasSafe registration [reg 3(3)], but they do nothing to prevent "own account" work by competent people who are not registered [reg 3(1)].

 

I am looking for specific regulations that mean that if a boat is a principal residence, DIY isn't an option

 

Ah right. Don't know that one, sorry.

[mayalld]

Ah right. Don't know that one, sorry.

 

I am interested and sceptical.

 

GasSafe/CORGI have always been keen on pretending that the DIY option didn't exist, and I wonder if this is just more FUD

[Nickhlx]

It is a reasonable assumption that if you buy a house ( or a boat), even if it is "new", but especially if it is secondhand, that you will not always be able to have 100% confidence that the electrics and the gas installations are 100% compliant or safe.

 

So, the only thing to do is have it inspected and tested by a professional with the expectation of a certificate to confirm compliance and safety. Landlords do it all the time with gas and the annual inspection, as it is required by law for the tenant's safety, but the inspection definitely does not require the floorboards to be lifted and every joint inspected, even if that were possible. They merely do a pressure drop test to confirm that there is no leak, and the insurance companies pay out if the house explodes and a valid gas safety certificate is in place. I don't see what more can be done...

 

I have experience of a recently qualified "Gas engineer" arguing that he was correct about how a sleeve should be installed to carry a gas pipe through a cavity wall, and he was, shockingly, 100% wrong - without labouring the detail, even to the layman it would have been obvious, but this "trained professional" could not see it and claimed "his way" was how he was trained to do it - he lacked the basic nouse of a layman, yet he was trained and a professional ... "professional" to me means that "it is your job and you are paid to do it" with absolutely no guarantee that the job will be done properly.

 

At the end of the day certification of the system was needed , so he was allowed to undo the good work, re-do it his ( incorrect and dangerous) way, and the certification was given, as that was what was needed at the end of the day to maintain the law and the insurance. I wonder how many dozens ( thousands ?) of installations there are around the country with "professional faults induced" in the systems - Certainly a professional installation is no guarantee it's good, correct or right, but at least one is absolved from the liability with the paperwork - makes a mockery of the system sometimes I reckon.

 

Overall though I acknowledge that the country is probably better off from a safety point of view if its based on reducing errors in installations.... I just wouldn't trust a "professional's" work

unless I had also taken steps to check it, either myself or through another...

 

Nick

[Laurie Booth]

Well said Nick

[alan_fincher]

Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998

 

Those are the regulations that impose the CORGI/GasSafe registration [reg 3(3)], but they do nothing to prevent "own account" work by competent people who are not registered [reg 3(1)].

 

I am looking for specific regulations that mean that if a boat is a principal residence, DIY isn't an option

 

The The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 (PDF Doc) does however say the following........

 

(5) Nothing in these Regulations shall apply in relation to the supply of gas to, or anything done in respect of a gas fitting on—

 

(a) a self-propelled vehicle except when such a vehicle is—

(i) hired out in the course of a business; or

(ii) made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried on from

that vehicle;

 

( a sea-going ship;

 

© a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate except when such

vessel is—

(i) hired out in the course of a business;

(ii) made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried out from

that vessel; or

(iii) used primarily for domestic or residential purposes;

 

(d) a hovercraft; or

 

(e) a caravan used for touring otherwise than when hired out in the course of a business.

 

So it appears those regulations are applicable to a residential narrow boat, but probably not to a leisure narrow boat not used fully residentially.

 

So, to save me reading 24 pages, in cases where those regulations do apply, is there anything that rules out a "non professional" "competent person" doing the work ?

[mayalld]

The The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 (PDF Doc) does however say the following........

 

 

 

So it appears those regulations are applicable to a residential narrow boat, but probably not to a leisure narrow boat not used fully residentially.

 

So, to save me reading 24 pages, in cases where those regulations do apply, is there anything that rules out a "non professional" "competent person" doing the work ?

 

Excellent work!

 

It appears that the whole "you can't do it yourself if you live aboard" story is just another bit of GasSafe/CORGI propaganda.

 

The correct legal position is;

 

For a non-residential boat anybody can do the work, even if you employ them, without being GasSafe registered. [reg 2(5)©]

For a residential boat, anybody employed to do the work must be GasSafe [reg 3(3)] but own account work by a competent person is OK [reg 3(3)]

[Chris Davidson]

Hi,

Reading through my copy of GS(I&U)R 1998

I find in Regulation 2 Para 33 it states that the regulations apply to:

 

"any boat (including those privately owned/ occupied) and used solely or primarily for

domestic or residential purposes, such as houseboats and those used for cruising but

in which the owner/user lives for most of the time; and boats made available to the public

in the course of a business carried out from the vessel "

 

"Privately owned boats used only for leisure or sporting purposes and not hired out in the

course of business are excluded"

 

Hope this clears up any uncertainty Chris

[nb Innisfree]

How do you know if a GaseSafe fitter is competent? I've seen two examples of shoddy gas fitting by Corgi registered fitters. My solution if I ever have to use one would be for me to check their work

[Speedwheel]

The So it appears those regulations are applicable to a residential narrow boat, but probably not to a leisure narrow boat not used fully residentially.

 

From someone at the BSS office:-

 

GS(IU)R include "residential boats, hire boats, floating business, work boats or any non-private boat"

[Chertsey]

[inappropriate image removed]

Phylis's usual response to losing an argument, writ large.

Some people simply cannot cope with logical, fact-based argument; i.e. actual argument rather than just assertion or shouting.

I may not always agree with Dave, but at least he knows how to argue his position.

Edited February 2, 2011 by NB Alnwick
inappropriate image removed

[J R]

Excellent work!

 

It appears that the whole "you can't do it yourself if you live aboard" story is just another bit of GasSafe/CORGI propaganda.

 

The correct legal position is;

 

For a non-residential boat anybody can do the work, even if you employ them, without being GasSafe registered. [reg 2(5)©]

For a residential boat, anybody employed to do the work must be GasSafe [reg 3(3)] but own account work by a competent person is OK [reg 3(3)]

 

Refering back to the OP, he/she can install all the pipe work etc, but NOT connect directly to a gas supply. This final connection and a full check HAS to be done by a qualified LPG Gas Safe engineer. If it is a modification/retrofit to a (on the gas side) existing LPG installation this has to be done by Gas Safe.

 

Dave, your post #4; a gas safe engineer will sign the work off if it complies. BSC inspection does not do a complete gas check.

 

Always ensure that the Gas Safe Engineer is (marine) LPG qualified. Most are not. Also, check their credentials either by their ID card that they have to carry and/or by the Gas Safe website.

 

We have our boat checked every year just to make sure everything is safe and sound gas wise. No one likes over regulation, but sometimes it is there for a reason.

[Speedwheel]

Refering back to the OP, he/she can install all the pipe work etc, but NOT connect directly to a gas supply. This final connection and a full check HAS to be done by a qualified LPG Gas Safe engineer. If it is a modification/retrofit to a (on the gas side) existing LPG installation this has to be done by Gas Safe.

 

Can you please provide the guidance/regs that support that?

[ditchcrawler]

Frankly, having SEEN some jobs done by people who are certified.....

 

I know that an installation that I do myself is sound, and I know that I tested it. That installation is both legal and safe.

 

The idea that using a professional makes an explosion less likely is nonsense.

 

I wonder if this was a "Professional" job.

 

(hope I haven't broken the rules but I nicked it from another thread)