The varying moods of my dongle

[Ange]

We're still experimenting on the different places to dangle the dongle to get the best reception - and we're still baffled as to the rhyme or reason.

 

We followed all advice and bought a waterproof box to put on the roof and a cable (either 3 or 5 meter - we can't remember) to feed in through the window. Reception and speed were passable but frustrating. We had one particularly wet and windy night when I couldn't get on t'internet at all so we dismantled the set up and brought the dongle indoors to dry out as we assumed it'd go wet. Once it'd spent a bit of time by the stove I plugged it directly into my lappy and hey presto I suddenly have an excellent signal - but it's incredibly slow.

 

When it was on the roof the signal & speed were crap so I decided to keep it indoors - at least I had a signal. But the slowness of page loading gradually wore me down so yesterday I decided that I had to try something and attached the dongle to a shorter lead and dangled it just inside the canal side window. When I connected the signal had dropped from excellent to very poor or poor, but the speed increased - when I was on the internet pages loaded instantly instead of watching that bar at the bottom for ever, but I kept getting kicked off because the signal was so poor.

 

Tonight, just to see if it made a difference, I moved the dongle from the canalside window to its opposite number on the towpath side (a distance of 6'10" I believe). Fired up the internet again - I've just gone from "very poor" to "excellent" signal strength and it's fast!!!

 

I'm still baffled about this stuff - please people who know about it help me with these questions

 

Is there any correlation between signal strength and speed? Pages have loaded quicker on a "very poor" connection than on an "excellent" one at times

 

What sort of trade off is there with an extension to dangle the dongle from? I've plugged it directly into the lappy at times and had an immediate response when it's refused to connect attached to an extension cable. I'm wondering if there's some sort of loss of power.

 

Why on earth would such a short distance make such a difference to my signal? The canal side of the boat faces open countryside with a dirty great big aerial that gives us a great TV signal even if it's drooping into the canal. The towpath side has a hedgerow then a housing estate. Even if there's a mast that side, surely 6'10" of boat doesn't shield it? Or does it?

 

I'm trying desperately to learn about this stuff - I really took our internet connection for granted when we were living in a house with wifi that our son had set up for us.

 

Any insights / advice would be appreciated (in a language I'll understand please - I've used computers for years, but always as an end user)

 

After saying my connection and speed are now excellent I'm struggling to post this - the two numbers on the Vodafone window are zero whilst its still telling me I have an excellent signal. This has happened before and I know if I persevere I'll get there, but what's going on there?

 

And sometimes the Vodafone window boots me off and I can reconnect using the icon on the task bar - Vodafone thinks I'm gone but everything works well - I've just tried that and this may now post (fingers crossed)

 

Still grateful to be sitting on a boat communicating with the world by the way.

[RLWP]

It's probably something to do with ley-lines and phases of the moon.

 

Richard

[Ange]

It's probably something to do with ley-lines and phases of the moon.

 

Richard

[Guest]

Ange I can't explain it I'm afraid but I agree mobile signal strength is a dark art - it's not just when you are boating though, I can walk across the floor of my office at work and improve the signal strength by 2 or 3 bars on my (Vodafone) Blackberry.

 

This can also make the difference as to whether I connect via. GPRS (older and slower technology) or 3G (newer and considerably faster), this will affect your internet connection no end.

[Ange]

Ange I can't explain it I'm afraid but I agree mobile signal strength is a dark art - it's not just when you are boating though, I can walk across the floor of my office at work and improve the signal strength by 2 or 3 bars on my (Vodafone) Blackberry.

 

This can also make the difference as to whether I connect via. GPRS (older and slower technology) or 3G (newer and considerably faster), this will affect your internet connection no end.

Hmm thanks Martin - dark art or dark magic sums it up

 

But having boated in the 80's when finding a pay phone was the only method of communication I am still very grateful for my rather wayward dongle

[Lady Muck]

 

Ange, I'm, with you there, mine seems to favour being blutacked in one particluar porthole over every other location. :/ Wherever we are.

 

It is a mystery.

 

I've also learnt to ignore what the software tells you. It is fantasy.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Lady Muck

[Ange]

Ange, I'm, with you there, mine seems to favour being blutacked in one particluar porthole over every other location. :/ Wherever we are.

 

It is a mystery.

 

I've also learnt to ignore what the software tells you. It is fantasy.

ROFL!

 

And I thought it was me being new to this!

 

Now I find I need to worship the god of dongles!

 

I feel so much better now

[Guest wanted]

You are not alone! ours is so random, still havent worked it out!

 

hang on in there

[Bobbybass]

As far as I know...and I may not really know...radio signals will bounce off / reflect from metal surfaces....so you may actually be receiving a reflected signal...and then you move a few feet and you receive a direct signal of a completely different strength.

I was also told that mobile masts vary the signal strength sometimes...so that if it 'senses' the dongle is weak..it may boost its output slightly..

I have seen some evidence of this...but it may be wishful thinking...

 

I have wishful thinkings a lot....but thats my secret....

 

Bob

[Radiomariner]

Ultra High Frequency signals reflect readily off steel (and other) surfaces, and do not pass very well through them. They will pass through windows/ports into your narrow boat and bounce around all over the place inside. Some signal is lost (scattered or absorbed) with each "reflection" There will be very small area's inside where reception is good. In other spots the signal will arrive from two differing directions with a delay of half a wavelength (or one and a half or two and a half) thereby cancelling each other out. There is no exact way of predicting this.(unless boat and its contentents including occupants remain absoloutly stationary, even then the calculation is horrendous) The direction of the transmitter affects the angle of signal entry through the port so if your boat moves it will always be different. Also a simple thing like moving the kettle from one gas ring to another can change things!

 

The best way to ensure a good signal is to have the dongle outside or, at least in a window

 

Dont know if you have ever seen the results of a microwave turntable or paddle jamming up. The microwaves follow the same cris-cross pattern within the enclosure and some areas of the food remain totally uncooked while other areas are burnt to a cinder. Same idea

 

I started reading this post because I think my dongle is shrinking, then I found out you were talking about internet access!

Edited January 31, 2010 by Radiomariner

[bottle]

All of the above and the dongle will automatically switch between GPRS, EDGE, UMTS and HSPDA, suffice it to say 2G, 2.5G and 3G.

 

You can have an excellent GPRS (2G) but the 'net will be slow or a poor UMTS and the 'net will be faster.

 

As for positioning, mine usually works hanging in the front doors but moving it ½ inch can make a lot of difference.

 

Do not forget when moving it around it takes 30 seconds or more to adjust to its new location, so patience is required to see if its new location is worse or better.

 

Isn't technology wonderful :lol:

[alan_fincher]

As you say Ange, (and others!), it's more than a bit of a black art, although there is obviously science behind it, as Alan suggests.

 

You will (theoretically at least), do best if the dongle has a clear line of sight to wherever the transmitter is that you happen to be connecting through.

 

Because a long (extended) cable to the dongle is not particularly good news, if that can be achieved on just a short cable, the signal may be less attenuated by the cabling.

 

As Alan says the waves will not pass through the steel of the boat - exactly the same reason your mobile may not work at some places inside the boat, but will be perfect outside. However you can get away with it if they are being "bnounced" and concentrated at a point where your dongle is.

 

I can fully understand that if you Blu Tack a dongle to a porthole glass on the side of the boat closest to the transmitter that it may work well, but that if you try the same thing on the other side, it may not get a usable signal.

 

Other than the "length of cable" constraint putting it outside should be better, but you may do less well because you have extended the cable, (it will depend on cable quality, how many joints, and total overall length - I believe you can get "active" cables, though we have not bothered (yet).

 

If you put it in a plastic box outside, but lay it on the metal roof, or hang it down the boat side, the fact that it is laying against steel will also not help you at all, and may be having quite a bad effect.

 

We generally do best by getting it outside, but at least a foot away from any metal object, (including the boat!). I keep meaning to make a short "mast" on a magnetic mount base, but our usual trick has been the "sucker" base from our Satellite Suitcase, with a length of 9 mm dowel in the top. If it's dry we just use electrical tape to bind the dongle to the "mast", if it's raining it gets a plastic bag over it first.

 

Doesn't always work.

 

I can't explain why the sa,me porthole should always work best for LM though, unless the arrangements being used to extend the cable to any other location are particularly poor. You don't buy extension USB cables in Poundland or 99p Stores, by any chance ?

 

Finally, there are two distinct frequency ranges used by these things, one about double that of the other,so the already very short UHF wavelength is halved. The higher the frequency,the odder the waves behave, unless you understand the science behind them.

Edited January 31, 2010 by alan_fincher

[Mister Allnut]

I dangle the dongle in the window which works fine. The main difference seems to me and backed by my Tech[ie son, is that as mine Tmobile, is dependant on how much band width is available, as phone users get priority. So Friday night. Saturday, Sunday when all the yoofs are phoning each other and Monday first thing, when people are phoning in sick, speeds on interweb are cra... not very fast.

[stuart]

Have you thought about using a proper aerial?

 

http://www.panorama-antennas.com/shop/index.html

[Guest User]

I wonder also if the apparent contradiction between signal strength and internet speed mentioned in the OP is because the coverage is flicking between 2G (sufficient for mobile's voice, text and picture messages) and 3G (allows video and high speed internet) ?

 

Where I am the coverage is 2G only (and variably moderate to occasionally good signal strength) .... but as a test I stood on the boat roof with a dongle direct to the laptop and got an internet connection of sorts, the signal was good-ish but the speed was sooooo slow ..... akin to a dial-up modem (e.g. the google homepage took about 20 seconds to gradually load). In other areas I've had a poor/intermittant 3G signal, but when it does hold for long enough even at weak strength the download speed is fast.

 

ETA ... Disclaimer: if you're going to stand on the roof clutching a laptop in this weather ... it's not my fault if you and/or the laptop end up in the water

Edited January 31, 2010 by Graham!

[Lady Muck]

I dangle the dongle in the window which works fine. The main difference seems to me and backed by my Tech[ie son, is that as mine Tmobile, is dependant on how much band width is available, as phone users get priority. So Friday night. Saturday, Sunday when all the yoofs are phoning each other and Monday first thing, when people are phoning in sick, speeds on interweb are cra... not very fast.

 

Pity the poor 02 users in London. The network has been so oversubscribed of late there have been hours of downtime. That's what happens when the world and his wife buys an iphone on the 02 network and they didn't plan for enough network capacity for it. Have to say, I've never experienced anything like this on Vodafone, but they do have alot of business users.

[Guest]

Pity the poor 02 users in London. The network has been so oversubscribed of late there have been hours of downtime. That's what happens when the world and his wife buys an iphone on the 02 network and they didn't plan for enough network capacity for it. Have to say, I've never experienced anything like this on Vodafone, but they do have alot of business users.

 

So I guess Orange customers like me (though not in London), Tesco mobile (Think they're tmobile in disguise ) and Vodafone customers can have the same to look forward to, now the iphone is on these networks too.

 

But I guess the upside is it'll spread the load so to speak (there can only be so many people who want an iphone surely )

[bottle]

Have you thought about using a proper aerial?

 

http://www.panorama-antennas.com/shop/index.html

 

Yes but from what I have heard, what the aerial gains the lead may lose, also what is the difference between the dongle up a pole and an aerial.

[Byeckerslike]

Pssst!

 

Does your dongle change colour at all? My SWMBO's is blue when connected to sllooowwww GPRS and red, when connected to the much faster 3G.

 

I think that you'll find that a weak 3G signal will provide a faster link compared with a good connection on GPRS.

 

 

Rob

[nb Innisfree]

Like you our signal varies from one side to the other, longer leads make it worse so we bought a router enabling us to place dongle in the best porthole with only one lead to the router and receive signals on the laptop wirelessly. Works quite well

[RLWP]

I knew I was right. Ley-lines, the phases of the moon and also the state of the tide.

 

Richard

[Bobbybass]

I see that since my original theory about the signal bouncing around off the steel...that some very much more knowledagable people have replied...

 

To the knowledagble ones : as the boat is also earthed to the supply...does it not also act as a ground plane except...its at the wrong angle ?

 

I purchased an amplifier unit for my boat...which is amazing...

Consists of an aerial that is in a cupboard of my lounge...this picks up from the dongle...amplifies the signal...and then feeds it to a flat plate aerial that I have outside on the pole with my TV aerial...

It was about £270 ?...and no...I don't know the make....

It works great wherever I am...but I need internet for my work....

Its only a 3G frequency unit....I think...?...2100 Mhz

 

Bob

[wrigglefingers]

Didn't Chris Pink have some good ideas about how to boost the signal strength? I'll do a search and see if it turns any thing up (on?)

 

 

Yup, here it is hidden aerial

Edited January 31, 2010 by wrigglefingers

[alan_fincher]

Didn't Chris Pink have some good ideas about how to boost the signal strength? I'll do a search and see if it turns any thing up (on?)

Well some have claimed great success putting one in a well directoed wok, have they not ?

 

I think I'd be tempted to try the satellite dish before a wok, if I was serious about it, but you might get lucky.

 

One problem is that most people are unlikely to know where the mast is on which they are relying, I would have thought.

[Justme]

At the dongle frequency the wave length is quite short (I think about 12-16") so moving the dongle in small amounts can have big results. The cable length will not affect signal strength.

 

Oh & down load speed is not just about connection strength or speed you also have to have a good "ping" time. With a slow ping & fast connection the "control" signals you send & recieve take to long & time out causing resends. Until the controls are happy you dont get the stuff you have asked for. Its worse (far worse) on modern type pages (like ebay) that are made up on the fly from lots of sources as each one is called individually increasing the delay.