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Roger Gunkel

Preventing Condensation

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Bit difficult to comply the BSS ventilation requirements with that system

I'm sure you are correct and yet people are making a living installing these on yachts.

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1 minute ago, Allthatjaz said:

I'm sure you are correct and yet people are making a living installing these on yachts.

Spose a lot of yachts don't need a BSC

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The answer to composting loo, don't.

A boater here walks past with a bottle of pee every day and a truck of crap and coconut shell every other day, absolutely no point as he is emptying it into a septic tank anyway.

 

To the condensation. Lots of clever ideas but they all fall down when you consider power to run them.

Heat and ventilation is the simple answer. Heat from solid fuel, ventilation with proper sized vents and opening a window when showering/cooking etc. Or stop breathing.

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8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yachts don't need a BSS. 

Do boats on marinas need BSS or is it just inland waterways?

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7 minutes ago, Allthatjaz said:

Do boats on marinas need BSS or is it just inland waterways?

 

Just inland rivers and canals as I understand it. 

 

Broadly speaking, anywhere you have to buy a licence to use your boat will require a BSS certificate, and to get it, watertight/airtight cabins are not permitted. 

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Just inland rivers and canals as I understand it. 

 

Broadly speaking, anywhere you have to buy a licence to use your boat will require a BSS certificate, and to get it, watertight/airtight cabins are not permitted. 

Thanks Mike.

The thing is, you don't need to be watertight/airtight to have a forced ventilation system. I'm sure you agree that we need ventilation, we want to be able to remove damp smelly air and we want to reduce condensation but we don't want to throw away all the heat that's in that air. This system does all of that regardless of being airtight/watertight or not. Its just a very low energy option that for some reason BSS don't recognize. 

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6 minutes ago, Allthatjaz said:

Thanks Mike.

The thing is, you don't need to be watertight/airtight to have a forced ventilation system. I'm sure you agree that we need ventilation, we want to be able to remove damp smelly air and we want to reduce condensation but we don't want to throw away all the heat that's in that air. This system does all of that regardless of being airtight/watertight or not. Its just a very low energy option that for some reason BSS don't recognize. 

Providing you have the required amount of high and low free ventilation you can put in what you like

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10 minutes ago, Allthatjaz said:

Thanks Mike.

The thing is, you don't need to be watertight/airtight to have a forced ventilation system.

 

AND 

 

"Has anyone here got a VMC https://www.archiproducts.com/en/products/fral/mechanical-forced-ventilation-system-f-vmc-rdc_267529 ? what it does is changes the air and recovers the heat. Its a forced ventilation system with heat recovery. The reason I ask is, these things are often used on large yachts and ocean going vessels that have to have watertight cabins."

 

Thinking about this more carefully, any forced ventilation system leads to a cabin that is not by definition NOT "watertight/airtight". So a BSS ticket should be obtainable, albeit with perhaps a bit of an argument with the BSS Office about it!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Add emphasis

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1 hour ago, Allthatjaz said:

Has anyone here got a VMC https://www.archiproducts.com/en/products/fral/mechanical-forced-ventilation-system-f-vmc-rdc_267529 ? what it does is changes the air and recovers the heat. Its a forced ventilation system with heat recovery. The reason I ask is, these things are often used on large yachts and ocean going vessels that have to have watertight cabins. They are also used in houses situated in very cold climates like the Alps because the houses are so well insulated, they need a forced air supply. If you have one of these installed you won't get condensation problems.

 

It has an average power consumption of 450 W or 37.5 A at 12 V. So not really practical for the average narrowboat!

Edited by David Mack

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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

It has an average power consumption of 450 W or 37.5 A at 12 V. So not really practical for the average narrowboat!

 

Sodding 'ell, no wonder global warming is a problem with energy being wasted like that!

 

 

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13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

It has an average power consumption of 450 W or 37.5 A at 12 V. So not really practical for the average narrowboat!

Most systems draw around 100w

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4 minutes ago, Allthatjaz said:

Most systems draw around 100w

The one you linked to is 450W, but even 100W equates to an average 8 Amps. That would take a typical 110AH battery down from fully charged to 50% in 7 hours. Or to put it another way you would require 3 additional domestic batteries just to run the system if you are reliant on daily engine running to recharge.

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26 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The one you linked to is 450W, but even 100W equates to an average 8 Amps. That would take a typical 110AH battery down from fully charged to 50% in 7 hours. Or to put it another way you would require 3 additional domestic batteries just to run the system if you are reliant on daily engine running to recharge.

Its easy to 'take it out' the hard part is putting it back in.

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On 14/10/2018 at 20:23, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Thinking about this more carefully, any forced ventilation system leads to a cabin that is not by definition NOT "watertight/airtight". So a BSS ticket should be obtainable, albeit with perhaps a bit of an argument with the BSS Office about it!

 

 

I thought the fixed ventilation recommendations were a BSS advisory rather than a requirement, so isn't the ventilation system irrelevant?

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19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Has anyone heard from Roger recently, he started this thread

He stopped posting years ago. It was a shame but he got miffed with certain posters at the time and went on his way. He did some good posts.

  • Happy 1

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On 14/10/2018 at 20:14, Allthatjaz said:

Thanks Mike.

The thing is, you don't need to be watertight/airtight to have a forced ventilation system. I'm sure you agree that we need ventilation, we want to be able to remove damp smelly air and we want to reduce condensation but we don't want to throw away all the heat that's in that air. This system does all of that regardless of being airtight/watertight or not. Its just a very low energy option that for some reason BSS don't recognize. 

It recognises minumium ventulation required, if the power goes for whatever reason and you have a near airtight structure with a forced ventilation system in a area as small as a narrowboat with a stove going then your probably not going to be waking up.

 

A stove is a very good system for reducing condensation and getting rid of stale air and bringing in fresh air.  These forced systems are designed really for houses where there is really good insulation that you don’t need heating.   A yacht probably benefits from these heat exchange systems as they probably already have air conditioning or forced air for heating already.

Edited by Robbo

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On 14/10/2018 at 21:25, Allthatjaz said:

Most systems draw around 100w

A nice hot stove, a few open windows and an ecofan (other fans are available) and I'll be your uncle.

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