Boat Builder

[PaulaJ]

Hi! This is my 1st EVER post so please be gentle with me if i make a rieght mess of it!

 

Am considering taking the huge step of becoming a liveaboard - have a winter trial booked in early November to make sure I'm making the right decision!

 

What I want all your help with right now is my possible boat builder of choice? Am looking at having a boat built by Orchard Marina in Northwich who are the sister boat builder to Collingwood in Liverpool.

 

Was just looking for peoples experiences or opinions on this companies' specific boats - am thinking about the resale value i.e. do they have a good reputation? Would you consider buying one of their boats?

 

Any help, advice, tips etc anyone can give me would be very much appreciated.

 

Possible Soon to be Liveaboard

 

aka PaulaJ

[WJM]

My tuppence worth:

 

Buy a very good second-hand boat., there are plenty of them out there. The big advantage is you get exactly what you see, right now! No stress, no heartache, no shattered dreams. Do you want a year of pulling your hair out or do you want to get in your boat next week and sail off?

[mrsmelly]

My tuppence worth:

 

Buy a very good second-hand boat., there are plenty of them out there. The big advantage is you get exactly what you see, right now! No stress, no heartache, no shattered dreams. Do you want a year of pulling your hair out or do you want to get in your boat next week and sail off?

 

Absolutely right seconded etc etc

[Lady Muck]

Agreed and if you don't like it and have to resell you can do it at no or a very small loss. Resell a new boat and the loss will be much greater.

 

I'm a liveaboard of three years on a second hand boat and it's really dawning on me now why it's worth living on one first before having one built. No amount of winter trials can prepare you for what it's like.

 

Features that might seem like a good idea when planning a boat from land might end up being something pretty useless when you are actually onboard.

 

Buy second hand, then if you love it, build your dream boat.

[deletedaccount]

Just to chip in I bought a two year old boat for 1/3 less than the build price and I'm extremely happy with it.

 

There are loads of nearly new (less than 5 years old) boats on the market and one of them will suit you perfectly.

[PaulaJ]

Thanks for everyones comments so far. Was thinking about the used boat thing but they are offering to build me a boat for a lot less than other builders seem able to - this is because of the large team they have and can do it within four weeks so no having to wait for 12months etc.

 

The one thing i've seen or heard about with used boats is you don't know the full history of the boat and at a risk of upsetting some people, if they've had owner fit outs do you really know the persons full skills? Surely with a new boat you have the oportunity to see it being built, there'll be no unkown history (because it won't have one!) and as i'll be living in the marina where it will have been built they're gonna treat me right as i'm sure they won't want the agro of me complaining on their doorstep all the time. Plus there'll be a 12month warranty on everything.

 

I understand that there would be an initial loss once the boat is commissioned but would then hopefully hold it's price reasonably for a few years as long as i keep it well maintained. The boats from this particular builder are actually selling for a little more than they cost to have built so shouldn't have too big of a loss.

 

Really appreciate everyones words of advice so far and will accept as much as you can throw at me!

 

Paula

[carlt]

Thanks for everyones comments so far. Was thinking about the used boat thing but they are offering to build me a boat for a lot less than other builders seem able to - this is because of the large team they have and can do it within four weeks so no having to wait for 12months etc.

No matter how big the team, a four week build at cheaper than the competition must raise some serious quality issues.

 

Most boat builders' snagging period is longer than that.

 

Having worked as a boat fitter, I believe that if you've more than 3 people, working in a narrow boat, then efficiency and quality suffers.

[WJM]

"they are offering to build me a boat for a lot less than other builders"

 

 

Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you cant work this one out for yourself then please leave your money on deposit in a bank. You wont get much (any) interest, but at least you have a fighting chance of hanging onto it!

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"The boats from this particular builder are actually selling for a little more than they cost"

 

This is how a business goes bust, by selling at (or close to) cost. There is nothing left to pay for overheads. Why don't you save time and make a charitable donation to their receiver!

 

 

 

 

Assuming you are not a troll, then please ask your dad for guidance!

Edited September 23, 2009 by WJM

[alan_fincher]

..........................and at a risk of upsetting some people, if they've had owner fit outs do you really know the persons full skills?

So buy a decent second-hand boat that does not have an owner fit-out, if that's what's worrying you.

 

People have to wait months, (often years) to get a boat built by the more sought after outfits. Any body who is offering you a new boat to your own spec, and more or less instantly needs treating with the greatest of suspicion in my view.

 

If there is a "large team" just sat ready to build this boat if you place an order, ask yourself what would that "large team" have been doing if you don't, (people can't afford to employ proper craftsmen in anticipation that orders may or may not happen).

 

If you really feel "only new will do", try and find someone offering a completed boat that you can live with - far less risky than having one built where you hand over money before that stage of the boat even exists.

[Scotty]

The initial loss in depreciation on a new build will be thousands of pounds.

You'd have to be really unlucky to buy used boat with a history that costly.

 

Most used boats come ready to use with all the ropes, fenders, pins, plank, anchor, etc.

Mine even came with bedding, cutlery, crockery and electrical items too.

[WJM]

After several boat hire holiday's I 'designed' my perfect layout and set off to find a builder. The unsecured stage payment process horrified me so I bought a barely used second hand boat instead, complete with everything, right down to cutlery and scented candles! It wasn't anything even close to my 'dream' layout. When I look at my design drawings now I shudder to think what a costly mistake I almost made. My dream layout was total rubbish and completely unworkable for me. The moral of my story: You don't know anything about boat layout until you have lived with boats for a long time and done a lot of boating.

Edited September 23, 2009 by WJM

[PaulaJ]

The boat won't be exactly to my specific design, more of a standard design (which will be cruiser stern, reverse layout with thru bathroom) which i will be able to tweak a little. It will also have a few less fancy finishing touches than on a 60K boat but it's the sort of things i can have done as and when extra cash becomes available - if i want to!

 

I hear what you're saying about the speed/cost comments and I assure you, I was very sceptical at first but have seen a couple of the boats in build process and spoken to a couple of owners who seem very happy with theirs. The yard has a very full order book - next available build slot is May next year, maybe this is how they can cut the costs a little?

 

Going back to the argument new versus used am i making the right decision?

 

Paula

 

PS i really do appreciate all the comments!

[Naughty Cal]

I will just say as others have said. Buy a good used boat until you are sure of what works and doesnt work for you. You will lose less money on a used boat when you do decide to sell.

[WJM]

"they are offering to build me a boat for a lot less than other builders seem able to - this is because of the large team they have and can do it within four weeks"

 

 

 

This comment taken in isolation tells me they are about to go bust. Good luck!

[wrigglefingers]

Cobbett will take over 20 months to build, plate to paint. She will cost a little more than a clonecraft but not significantly. After nearly 30 years around different boats and three and half years living on Surprise I'm still in no way competent to proceed with the build of Cobbett without the help and advice of others. Listen to what's being said to you and proceed with caution. The idea of a new boat is very seductive but could be very costly. Boats with a service history do exist but its up to you to find one. Try ABNB and Virginia Currer first. We all need a boat to learn on and it's best to do that in a secondhand one than risk everything on building a new one until you know what you're taking on. Good luck, Jill

Edited September 23, 2009 by wrigglefingers

[WJM]

Exactly what kind of service history do you need?! It is a steel box with van engine! We are talking about near-new here. I cant think of anything that a normal survey wont uncover. Where is the risk in near-new? You have it surveyed, you hand over your money, you sail away! Where is the risk?!!

 

 

 

(As an aside, why refer to your beloved boat by name, when the name means nothing to the reader? I prefer phrases like 'my boat', less confusing)

Edited September 23, 2009 by WJM

[alan_fincher]

Going back to the argument new versus used am i making the right decision?

Sorry,

 

But my vote is "no"!

[carlt]

Exactly what kind of service history do you need?! It is a steel box with van engine!

This does invite the argument that, if it's just a steel box with a van engine, why pay loads more and wait much longer, for, essentially, a dearer steel box, with a van engine.

[Naughty Cal]

This does invite the argument that, if it's just a steel box with a van engine, why pay loads more and wait much longer, for, essentially, a dearer steel box, with a van engine.

 

I have often wondered that myself

[steelaway]

Hi

 

Have a look at PAV's blog and you will understand the pitfalls of buying a new boat.

In fact have a look at his boat - definetly better than buying new

 

Alex

[jami dodgers]

Paula. If you talk yourself into this it won't be because of the advice you have received here!

 

Why come on and ask advice if you have no intention of listening to it?

 

The advice has been 100%, buy secondhand!

 

It's been 100%, don't get suckered into the sales pitch!

 

My vote? Buy a good, professionally built, secondhand Narrowboat, thru' a professional broker, one or two are helpful, friendly members of this forum.

 

Get a full survey carried out, and listen to the advice of the surveyor! Do not allow your heart to rule your head!

 

Just playing devil's advocate here for a moment, you don't by any chance work for Orchard Marina, or Collingwood Boats, do you??

[wrigglefingers]

Exactly what kind of service history do you need?! It is a steel box with van engine ! ... I cant think of anything that a normal survey wont uncover....

(As an aside, why refer to your beloved boat by name, when the name means nothing to the reader? I prefer phrases like 'my boat', less confusing)

 

Yes, you're right but as a new boater it's helpful to see some evidence of care of your potential purchase. Sort of ups the confidence levels when you have little experience.

 

As for names I have a v small brain and two boats. Even I get confused when I refer to 'my boat'.

 

Cheers, Jill.

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, you're right but as a new boater it's helpful to see some evidence of care of your potential purchase.

 

A lot of boats have the required evidence for maintenance and repairs.

[deletedaccount]

I understand that there would be an initial loss once the boat is commissioned but would then hopefully hold it's price reasonably for a few years as long as i keep it well maintained. The boats from this particular builder are actually selling for a little more than they cost to have built so shouldn't have too big of a loss.

 

If you buy it for 57k you will struggle to sell it for more than 40k a few years later imo, especially if it's a basic fitout on a basic shell. Which is a pretty hefty initial loss. I've seen nearly new boats on the market for > 45k that have been there for over 6 months. I'm basing this on a 57footer. Remember, the price you see is rarely the one the boat sells for. It's usually 10% or more less.

[mikevye]

Its a wind-up right, 4 weeks for yours, next build slot May next year, your very first post but there's 3 recorded and I'm an amateur at sussing trolls, wait till the big guns start on this thread!