Engine/gear control side mount leavers

[churchward]

Having given up with my current control mech since no amount of adjustment and fiddling will get it to stay where I want it in terms of revs I want to buy a new one. So, any recommendations?

 

By the way my engine is a rear mounted Beta BV1505 the boat is a trad back and the current unit is mounted on a panel just inside the rear doors to the left hand side.

Edited March 2, 2009 by churchward

[Keeping Up]

When we had our boat built we opted for twin levers. I much prefer it to the single-lever control because:

 

You have much better control over the engine speed at low revs. There are no spring-loaded detents so the lever stays where you put it, and you can control the speed as it goes into gear, the slow speed that you cruise past moored boats or into locks, etc, even if the cables have stretched so it isn't quite as well adjusted as it was (like most of us!). You can even deliberately set the tickover speed too low, so that the engine doesn'tquite stall in neutral but is otherwise virtually unusable, and still control it with the separate throttle.

 

When you have a novice at the controls, they can manoevre in locks or out of them, on instructions like "move the black lever all the way forward" (to put it into gear) or "push the red lever all the way down" (to achieve tickover speed in gear) without the risk of being in neutral when it should be in gear or vice versa.

 

It was diificult to find a suitable control. Here's ours; you can see the throttle (the lever with a red ball on the end) and the gear lever (pointing straight up, it has a black ball on the end). The controls are actually the controls from an Italian twin-engined hovercraft, but others are available.

 

 

Others I'm sure will express other preferences. This happens to be what I like and it works for us!

[alan_fincher]

You've got me confused.

 

I was convinced our control is badged "Marine Master".

 

They are not uncommon, a black arm with a red handle that is cylindrically rather than spherically shaped, (which I prefer).

 

It does exactly what you want it to do, with no bother. I like it better than the Morse offerings.

 

But an attempt to Google for a Marine Master control produces zilch. So either I have the name wrong, or they no longer make them.

 

Neither of which helps you a great deal - sorry!

 

(I'll take a look at the brand when next on the boat).

[David Schweizer]

You've got me confused.

 

I was convinced our control is badged "Marine Master".

 

They are not uncommon, a black arm with a red handle that is cylindrically rather than spherically shaped, (which I prefer).

 

It does exactly what you want it to do, with no bother. I like it better than the Morse offerings.

 

But an attempt to Google for a Marine Master control produces zilch. So either I have the name wrong, or they no longer make them.

 

Neither of which helps you a great deal - sorry!

 

(I'll take a look at the brand when next on the boat).

Apart from the colours, yours sounds like the lever on our boat, and I think it is also called marine Master. If it is the same they went out of production quite a few years ago. Does it have an isolating tab which has to be pulled forward to engage the gear action, or pushed back to disengage?

[alan_fincher]

Apart from the colours, yours sounds like the lever on our boat, and I think it is also called marine Master. If it is the same they went out of production quite a few years ago. Does it have an isolating tab which has to be pulled forward to engage the gear action, or pushed back to disengage?

Yes - a red tab on ours.

 

Shame if they are not now made - I like them better than many that are, (particularly after I redesigned all the controls to raise it 3" so that I can reach it without stooping!).

[David Schweizer]

Yes - a red tab on ours.

 

Shame if they are not now made - I like them better than many that are, (particularly after I redesigned all the controls to raise it 3" so that I can reach it without stooping!).

I am in the process of trying to do the same on our boat, but I have the problem of the lever obscuring the control panel dials, which sort of defeats the object of having them..

 

I know someone who bought up a load of the Marine Master levers when they went out of production, i do not know whether he has any left. I could ask if you are looking for one.

[alan_fincher]

I am in the process of trying to do the same on our boat, but I have the problem of the lever obscuring the control panel dials, which sort of defeats the object of having them..

Yes, I know what you mean.

 

Before I rebuilt the control panel area on our "trad" style boat, I looked at a few existing boats, including brokers pictures on sites like ABNB. I came to the conclusion that few boats do it very well, often placing the control far too far down, (or forwards).

 

In the end I concluded I only really look at our (limited) instrumentation when on the move, and once the lever is pushed down, it's obscuring nothing.

 

I thought I had pictures of the new arrangements, but don't seem to.

 

I know someone who bought up a load of the Marine Master levers when they went out of production, i do not know whether he has any left. I could ask if you are looking for one.

No, unless I break one, I don't need one, mine works fine.

 

I'm interested in discussions about 'detents', 'notches', 'slipping', etc.....

 

Mine just stays exactly where it's put, and I can select absolutely any revs I like, and hold it, whether in, or out of, gear.

 

As I said - nice control - shame they stopped making them.

 

Alan

[Amicus]

Having given up with my current control mech since no amount of adjustment and fiddling will get it to stay where I want it in terms of revs I want to buy a new one.

snip

This problem can sometimes be cured by reducing the strength the return spring on the speed lever on the engine. Having said that, the most common cause of the problem is wear in the control mechanism which leads us back to renewal.

[Big COL]

This problem can sometimes be cured by reducing the strength the return spring on the speed lever on the engine. Having said that, the most common cause of the problem is wear in the control mechanism which leads us back to renewal.

 

Hi

It is not true that you need to replace the morse control, what you need is a cable brake about £5 or a few pence if you make one yourself.

This subject has come up up a few times. Try the search, as I have explained what a cable break is couple of times in some detail.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Big COL

[Proper Job]

A gurt big brass handle that you push/pull and a windy wheel. Robust and effective

[paulcatchpole]

It was diificult to find a suitable control. Here's ours; you can see the throttle (the lever with a red ball on the end) and the gear lever (pointing straight up, it has a black ball on the end). The controls are actually the controls from an Italian twin-engined hovercraft, but others are available.

 

 

Others I'm sure will express other preferences. This happens to be what I like and it works for us!

 

To dredge up an ancient thread...

 

I liked this idea so much, I've decided to do the same, to replace the knackered Morse on Creamcheese.

 

I've bought a taiwanese knock-off of a Morse MJB, cheep.

 

Can I ask, what stops your two levers rotating with each other? Mine has friction discs which (off the boat, as it arrived this morn, sans instructions) drag either lever with the other. Now, I can imagine things might be different when installed, and also with the gearbox cable hooked up, which'll hold it all a bit stiffer, but even so?

 

Mine looks like:

 

 

PC

Edited June 7, 2011 by paulcatchpole

[Keeping Up]

Mine has a friction control on the shaft for each lever, comprising for each a hole drilled and tapped in the casing, then containing a spring and a lump of something which presses on the relevant rotating shaft rather like a brush in a motor. The amount of friction you get depends on how much you tighten the screw in the end

[paulcatchpole]

Hmm, mine doesn't seem to be the same as yours then, in operation.

 

The odd thing is that the Morse MJB, much respected, is supposed to operate independently, and I think this is much the same. It may all make more sense when I get it installed, especially as it has to come apart to do so. The MJB's instructions don't show any adjustment details other than the obvious for installation and flipping the cables around between push/pull...

 

Ah well, it should become apparent at some point!

 

PC

[Sunset Rising]

OK. I haven't asked a daft question for ages.

 

 

If you have a cruiser stern the control is usually mounted on the left ( or right ) of the deck, either on a pillar or a taff rail support. That is fine if you need to look down the left side of the boat when mooring etc but a pita if you need to look down the right side.

 

So why cant you have a twist grip throttle on the tiller arm ?

 

<ducking>

[Keeping Up]

Why would you need to look down the right-hand side? All you have to do is look down the left-hand side, and remember that the right-hand side will always be 7ft away from it.

[nb Innisfree]

OK. I haven't asked a daft question for ages.

 

 

If you have a cruiser stern the control is usually mounted on the left ( or right ) of the deck, either on a pillar or a taff rail support. That is fine if you need to look down the left side of the boat when mooring etc but a pita if you need to look down the right side.

 

So why cant you have a twist grip throttle on the tiller arm ?

 

<ducking>

 

I've seen a twist grip operating a bow thruster.

[Sunset Rising]

Why would you need to look down the right-hand side? All you have to do is look down the left-hand side, and remember that the right-hand side will always be 7ft away from it.

 

And the bank an indeterminate distance further ?

[PeterG]

Why do you need to look down the side at all, is it to see if you have left the fenders down?

[paulcatchpole]

Ah well, it should become apparent at some point!

 

It didn't become apparent...

 

I have installed it, and it's a bit cheap and nasty to be honest, though I don't mind that.

 

I'm mildly annoyed that moving the gear control moves the throttle. The reverse isn't the case, as the throttle has a simple friction adjustment on the back.

 

How does yours manage not to drag the throttle with it, Allan, if the throttle shaft runs inside the outer gear shaft? That's what happens to mine - and my brain, albeit a bit slow, isn't suggesting any great ideas.

 

I need another methods engineer...!

 

Richard, Tim, Tony, Robin, usual suspects, anyone else who fancies a go, any thoughts - from the piccy of the thing above?

 

 

PC

[RLWP]

<snip>

Richard, Tim, Tony, Robin, usual suspects, anyone else who fancies a go, any thoughts - from the piccy of the thing above?

 

 

PC

 

From the piccy? You bought something that is unnecessarily complicated....

 

Richard

[Keeping Up]

There are two friction devices on mine. As I described above, they each consist of a tapped hole in the casing, containing a friction device (aka lump of plastic) and a coil of spring, then a screw from the outside which you screw further in if you want more friction. The setup is similar to the brushes in a motor. One presses on the outside of the inner shaft, and then the inner shaft projects further out at the back so the second friction device presses on that.

[paulcatchpole]

From the piccy? You bought something that is unnecessarily complicated....

 

Richard

 

 

How is it complicated? Surely it's less complicated than a single-lever dual-acting control?

 

No cam to operate the throttle at the right time, or neutral-lock malarkey?

 

Tis just two shafts, with two knobs - I just can't accept that the Chinese that copied it from the MJB failed to make it work without the gear lever dragging the throttle with it!

 

PC

 

There are two friction devices on mine. As I described above, they each consist of a tapped hole in the casing, containing a friction device (aka lump of plastic) and a coil of spring, then a screw from the outside which you screw further in if you want more friction. The setup is similar to the brushes in a motor. One presses on the outside of the inner shaft, and then the inner shaft projects further out at the back so the second friction device presses on that.

 

So presuming the outer shaft/tube is the gear control, and the inner the throttle...

 

If you undo the second friction device so it's loose, wouldn't that just make the throttle lever rather floppy?

 

I'm being fick, Allan! I still don't get how moving the outer shaft doesn't drag the inner with it.

 

Unless there's a third shaft in the very middle, that doesn't move, allowing the throttle to be 'frictioned' to that?

 

PC

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

So presuming the outer shaft/tube is the gear control, and the inner the throttle...

 

If you undo the second friction device so it's loose, wouldn't that just make the throttle lever rather floppy?

 

I'm being fick, Allan! I still don't get how moving the outer shaft doesn't drag the inner with it.

 

Unless there's a third shaft in the very middle, that doesn't move, allowing the throttle to be 'frictioned' to that?

 

PC

 

Which is which? Which shaft (inner or outer) is the throttle and which the gearbox?

 

Richard

 

Oh, unnecessarily complicated? Ours you connect the two cables up and it just works. No messing, no friction thingys, just controlling the boat

Edited June 14, 2011 by RLWP

[Keeping Up]

Each of the shafts is "frictioned" to the casing because the two friction devices are each set into the casing. One presses on the outer shaft, near the front of the casing. That shaft does not reach as far as the back of the casing, but runs in a sleeve bearing (that is a posh term for it; a bit of plastic with a hole in it describes it better) in the middle, so that there is enough room for the rear friction device to press on the outer surface of the inner shaft which then has a further bit of plastic with a hole in it supporting the rear end so that when you tighten the friction it does not press it against the inner shaft. I omitted to mention that there is a third bit of plastic with a hole in it at the front of the casing, that the outer runs in, and there is a plastic washer between the two at the front as well.

 

I'll try and draw a diagram, but don't hold your breath too long!

[RLWP]

Each of the shafts is "frictioned" to the casing because the two friction devices are each set into the casing. One presses on the outer shaft, near the front of the casing. That shaft does not reach as far as the back of the casing, but runs in a sleeve bearing (that is a posh term for it; a bit of plastic with a hole in it describes it better) in the middle, so that there is enough room for the rear friction device to press on the outer surface of the inner shaft which then has a further bit of plastic with a hole in it supporting the rear end so that when you tighten the friction it does not press it against the inner shaft. I omitted to mention that there is a third bit of plastic with a hole in it at the front of the casing, that the outer runs in, and there is a plastic washer between the two at the front as well.

 

I'll try and draw a diagram, but don't hold your breath too long!

 

Same question for you:

 

 

Which is which? Which shaft (inner or outer) is the throttle and which the gearbox?

 

Richard