Engine/gear control side mount leavers

[paulcatchpole]

Which is which? Which shaft (inner or outer) is the throttle and which the gearbox?

 

Richard

 

Oh, unnecessarily complicated? Ours you connect the two cables up and it just works. No messing, no friction thingys, just controlling the boat

 

The inner is throttle, outer is gear. Big knob gear, short knob, throttle.

 

Well, thing is, mine is essentially simple and will stay that way, but when yours goes wrong, it will come apart with a boing and all the small bits will head to underneath the nearest fridge. Also, mine was 1/3 of the price of a single-lever control. I tried taking the 70s single-lever control apart, and not only did it go boing, but the cammy bits were worn out and found the thing infeasibly complex to repair without spare parts!

 

PC

 

PS: Also, with my old engine and older gearbox, I'm keen on two levers. That way I can work out what the thing is supposed to be doing without mistrusting the control!

 

PPS: Ms CreamCheese's dad has a Black Prince with a truly 'orrible example of the single-lever breed, where you can't tell whether the thing's in gear or not at tickover, resulting in having to thump it into gear and try and throttle back to minimum without it dropping out. I found it a b*tch to use, and it's put me off for life.

 

PPPS: My old fletcher double-vee ski boat had one that played up too. My much-cleverer-than-me best friend took it apart and reassembled it, leaving us with what turned out to be a minimum speed of around 10knots. That led to getting a proper ticking off from a Milford Haven marina, and also a tricky parking effort at the pub we were going to. That too, has somewhat put me off combined 'magic' controls.

 

PPPPS: At least I didn't go with a speedwheel...

 

Each of the shafts is "frictioned" to the casing because the two friction devices are each set into the casing. One presses on the outer shaft, near the front of the casing. That shaft does not reach as far as the back of the casing, but runs in a sleeve bearing (that is a posh term for it; a bit of plastic with a hole in it describes it better) in the middle, so that there is enough room for the rear friction device to press on the outer surface of the inner shaft which then has a further bit of plastic with a hole in it supporting the rear end so that when you tighten the friction it does not press it against the inner shaft. I omitted to mention that there is a third bit of plastic with a hole in it at the front of the casing, that the outer runs in, and there is a plastic washer between the two at the front as well.

 

I'll try and draw a diagram, but don't hold your breath too long!

 

Cheers Allan, I think I'm starting to get it. I'll have a go with a piece of paper from your description and see if I can work it out. I think yours sounds rather better designed than mine...

 

Same question for you:

 

Allan's is the same as mine. They should all be set up for taller lever to be gear, that's the standard on the amuuuuuurican boats you find them on. And sailboats too, nice smooth knobs to stop the sheets getting caught.

 

PC

[Keeping Up]

Yes mine has the inner as the throttle and the outer as the gear.

 

Does this help?

 

 

Gear control by Keeping Up, on Flickr

 

 

 

Edited to add: the control knobs go on the left hand side in this view

Edited June 14, 2011 by Keeping Up

[RLWP]

Yes mine has the inner as the throttle and the outer as the gear.

 

Does this help?

 

 

Gear control by Keeping Up, on Flickr

 

 

 

Edited to add: the control knobs go on the left hand side in this view

 

So the left hand friction thing is too loose?

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

Yes mine has the inner as the throttle and the outer as the gear.

 

Does this help?

 

Edited to add: the control knobs go on the left hand side in this view

 

Yes Allan, that's great, I think!

 

I will digest. Not the same as mine though!

 

So the left hand friction thing is too loose?

 

Erm, it would be if mine was the same as Allan's!

 

Mine is a bit different, I will try for a similar sketch, to describe it - when I've eaten my dins!

 

PC

[paulcatchpole]

Right...

 

 

Apologies for the quality of that.

 

Red is gear control tube and actuating lever, and control lever.

 

Blue is throttle control shaft and control lever.

 

Light blue is throttle actuating lever.

 

Black is the housing, bolted in place, non-rotating.

 

Dark grey are the only two (main) adjustment/locating screws.

 

Green are nylon or spring-steel pressure pads.

 

Does that help?

 

PC

Edited June 14, 2011 by paulcatchpole

[RLWP]

Not exactly... Which are the dark grey bits? How are there two of them?

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

Not exactly... Which are the dark grey bits? How are there two of them?

 

Richard

 

It makes sense with it in front of you - if you refer to the earlier photo of it, it might help - it did me, when I was drawing that!

 

The dark grey bits are the bolt/machine-screw on the end, inboard, which does about fifteen hundred jobs. It holds the throttle actuating arm on, locating it to one of the set of 90deg positions by virtue of a square profile on the end of the throttle shaft, it stops the whole assembly falling apart, and also compresses the green friction disk to loosen or tighten the throttle friction tightness.

 

The other grey blob is a pinch-bolt for the split clamp of the gear actuating arm, (bronze in photo), which locks it to the gearbox hollow-shaft, in one of four 90deg positions, by virtue of a little stainless peg that goes 'aligned' into castleations on the end of the tube. It doesn't really adjust very much, 'cause the only thing to compress is a springy washer, which is more of an anti-rattle device I think. That's the rightmost green bit (tiny in drawing, clearer as black metal slice in photo).

 

PC

[RLWP]

Oh dear. I suppose you are meant to squash the green washery thing then tighten the clamp bolt to set the friction for the gear change, then use the multi-purpose bolt to put some friction between the throttle bit and the gear bit.

 

Nasty...

 

I can see this 'orrible thing spending some time in Uncle Richard's workshop

 

Richard

[paulcatchpole]

Oh dear. I suppose you are meant to squash the green washery thing then tighten the clamp bolt to set the friction for the gear change, then use the multi-purpose bolt to put some friction between the throttle bit and the gear bit.

 

Nasty...

 

I can see this 'orrible thing spending some time in Uncle Richard's workshop

 

Richard

 

Nasty, agreed.

 

But isn't it a lost cause? How can the blue bit ever avoid being turned by the red bit?

 

It doesn't do it the other way around mainly because the gearbox itself presents enough resistance to fight back!

 

PC

[RLWP]

What we need is a cunning plan...

 

Richard

 

I might have one

[paulcatchpole]

What we need is a cunning plan...

 

Richard

 

I might have one

 

Ooooh, does it involve a cat and a remarkable quantity of custard?

 

I'm all ears, 'cause I'm b*ggered if I can think of a good one.

 

The odd thing is, the real Morse MJB looks very similar, with just the addition of an external (outboard, as it were) friction adjustment for the throttle. There's nowt in the instructions for the real one for how to make it behave, and yet, they're very popular, and presumably don't do such silly things as this one.

 

Shall I let you stew over your idea for a while?

 

PC

[Keeping Up]

Can you add friction at the OTHER end of the throttle cable? At the engine itself?

[paulcatchpole]

Can you add friction at the OTHER end of the throttle cable? At the engine itself?

 

That's not a bad idea, Allan.

 

Which reminds me that Morse/Teleflex do actually sell (somewhat not obviously) cable-crushing things to add friction to a cable. Sounds a mad idea, but they make the controls and cables...

 

That said, it feels the wrong thing to do, to stiffen up the other end - but I guess it might not take much to make a difference.

 

I'll have a think about that!

 

Cheers! PC

[GeoffH]

To dredge up an ancient thread...

 

I liked this idea so much, I've decided to do the same, to replace the knackered Morse on Creamcheese.

 

I've bought a taiwanese knock-off of a Morse MJB, cheep.

 

Can I ask, what stops your two levers rotating with each other? Mine has friction discs which (off the boat, as it arrived this morn, sans instructions) drag either lever with the other. Now, I can imagine things might be different when installed, and also with the gearbox cable hooked up, which'll hold it all a bit stiffer, but even so?

 

Mine looks like:

 

 

PC

 

Paul,

 

Where did you find this control gear?

 

Geoff

[RLWP]

Paul,

 

Where did you find this control gear?

 

Geoff

 

In a skip I guess. He should have left it there

 

Richard

[the grinch]

from preference i would always choose a speed wheel and gear lever mounted on the cabin roof (trad ) but don't mind what is fitted.

on the trusts boats there isn't a standard type and they are all very different.

[paulcatchpole]

Paul,

 

Where did you find this control gear?

 

Geoff

 

Many chandlers sell them, or you can find them on Ebay. That was off the latter.

 

In a skip I guess. He should have left it there

 

Cheeky monkey, Mr Richard!

 

PC

[blackrose]

When we had our boat built we opted for twin levers. I much prefer it to the single-lever control because:

 

You have much better control over the engine speed at low revs. There are no spring-loaded detents so the lever stays where you put it, and you can control the speed as it goes into gear, the slow speed that you cruise past moored boats or into locks, etc, even if the cables have stretched so it isn't quite as well adjusted as it was (like most of us!). You can even deliberately set the tickover speed too low, so that the engine doesn'tquite stall in neutral but is otherwise virtually unusable, and still control it with the separate throttle.

 

When you have a novice at the controls, they can manoevre in locks or out of them, on instructions like "move the black lever all the way forward" (to put it into gear) or "push the red lever all the way down" (to achieve tickover speed in gear) without the risk of being in neutral when it should be in gear or vice versa.

 

Others I'm sure will express other preferences. This happens to be what I like and it works for us!

 

I've never used a twin lever control so I can only imagine what it's like, but since I've never had any problems with my single lever staying where it should, controlling speed as it goes into gear, cruising at slow speeds, etc, I'm perfectly happy with it.

 

Also I don't quite understand your point about giving instructuions to a novice at the helm as I'd have thought a single lever would have been less confusing for a novice? My Vetus single lever control has 3 set positions (in bold) between astern and ahead: <astern - astern idling - neutral - ahead idling - ahead>

 

At least it seemed fairly simple to me when I was a novice.

 

I can't see a novice ever wanting to rev the engine in neutral while manouvreing around a lock, which is the only other function of a single lever control.

Edited June 18, 2011 by blackrose