communities...?!

[Chris Pink]

Looking seriously at the request for a moment, you could look at almost any group of people who live in a community of any sort, whether it is caravans, boats houses or tents and you will quite likely find musicians, artists, actors etc. You may also find small clusters of dropouts or 'alternative lifestylers' with little income, who may live in squats, boats, camper vans or anywhere they can lay their heads. There are often people in these groups who can supplement their incomes from impromtu street theatre or busking etc. It is a lifestyle that some people, usually young and idealistic see as free spirited and alternative.

 

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with living in a boating community, heritage, history and least of all anthropology--In my opinion!!

 

Roger

 

Interesting that you have posted twice on this Roger, when you appear not to understand the premise of the OP's question - which I do and have pointed her at 2 examples of what she has asked for.

 

You also seem to assume that this forum is typical of canal dwellers in general, debatable to say the least.

 

And yes, musicians and artists live anywhere but you might re-visit your post above and see a pointer or two as to why they might be found on the canals.

 

Interesting too that you lump together "dropouts" with "street performers". Showing an ignorance, if I may so, of the performing arts.

[Roger Gunkel]

Interesting that you have posted twice on this Roger, when you appear not to understand the premise of the OP's question - which I do and have pointed her at 2 examples of what she has asked for.

The fact that I interpret the OP's premise differently to you, doesn't mean that you are right and I am wrong, merely that you consider your interpretation to be superior, when it is merely different. I also wasn't aware that there are limitations on the number of times that I may post on anything on the forum, just because you don't agree.

You also seem to assume that this forum is typical of canal dwellers in general, debatable to say the least.

Again just your opinion, as after over 4 years of living onboard and getting to know many other liveaboards both on and off the forum, I think it is typical.

 

And yes, musicians and artists live anywhere but you might re-visit your post above and see a pointer or two as to why they might be found on the canals.

Quite correct, I mentioned that Artists and Musicians may well live on boats, however my whole point is that the fact that they may live on boats has nothing to do with the fact that they are Artists and Musicians any more than if they live in houses.

Interesting too that you lump together "dropouts" with "street performers". Showing an ignorance, if I may so, of the performing arts.

Interesting that you choose to interpret my example in a rather arrogant way. I do currently and have over a long period of time known and worked with a number of street theatre and circus art practitioners. Many of these have been involved in teaching their skills to others and those people come from all walks of life. However, you will also find if you visit new age communities and alternative lifestyle groups, that street theatre, circus art and similar activities often play a larger part in their lives than those that live more conventional lives. That is no judgement on those who choose to drop out or live an alternative style, merely an observation. It also has nothing to do with living on a boat. It is also interesting thet you are quite prepared to make such an ignorant statement about my own 'ignorance' of the performing arts. I have spent over 40 years of my life touring Europe as a professional musician and entertainer, including 10 years of teaching media and performing arts students to National Diploma level in a wide range of skills. Who are you to question my knowledge?

 

The OP quite clearly asked for help as an anthropologist in finding boating communities, particularly those who live in self sustaining communities and those communities that are involved in performance and street theatre. I quite happily stand by my assertion that living on a boat would have no more relevance to either of those things, than living anywhere else. Disagree if you wish, help her if you think you can, but I can see no neccessity in attacking me.

 

Roger

[sueb]

Try rboa.co.uk residential boat owners association. There are a lot of retired people living on boats which may not be what you are looking for.

Sue

[Lady Muck]

Ana, for someone who says they come from a social sciences background, you do seem to have an odd agenda regarding people on boats. Most of us are just ordinary people, not hippies or circus freaks!

 

Never been to my marina, obv.

[madcat]

Hi Ana, If I read you right I think you are maybe looking for the more exiting interesting and diverse end of the canal community. There is a real bunch of individuals out there and all sorts of attitudes to life boats and everything. I dont think you are looking for Rosie and Jim at all but you have stumbled upon a few members of the Grumpy brigade ,a common species everywhere.In the days when canals were part of the countries industrial life then a community of boating families existed who lived and worked on the boats which were decorated in a traditional style. Now we are in a leisure era and the working life of the canals has changed out of all recognition.The commercial life of the canals now exists to service this new very varied bunch of canal boaters, this is how some of the people on this forum make a living in fact.There are people out there who are part of the alternative lifestyle but they may well be a bit shy of strangers. The LILO web site may well be helpfull, its worth a try. Your post has made me think about the different communities I belong to linked by the friendship and shared interests, no man is an island even the grumpy ones. Some of the traditional boating families still have strong links to the canals.Me well I have no canal background at all and can remember when I didnt have a clue what a canal boat was . Cheers Madcat

[Chris Pink]

The OP quite clearly asked for help as an anthropologist in finding boating communities, particularly those who live in self sustaining communities and those communities that are involved in performance and street theatre. I quite happily stand by my assertion that living on a boat would have no more relevance to either of those things, than living anywhere else. Disagree if you wish, help her if you think you can, but I can see no neccessity in attacking me.

 

Roger

 

Well if your background is as you say, and i see no reason for you to lie, then you would know that a lot of the touring artistic communities; circus, touring theatre, touring musicians, are also those who live nomadic lifestyles, some because that is the way their performance seasons work some because they came to be nomads first and then chose performing arts as the way to pursue that lifestyle.

 

Of the touring artists I know, and I also have a long history in those areas, most by necessity, live in road vehicles but that doesn't negate the fact that i can (and did) point to 3 examples of my knowledge of the kind of community the OP sought. It also true that seasonal performers tend to find places to spend the winter that are a, community based and b. not houses and you will find such people on the boats.

 

So for you to come along and say, effectively, 'you won't find any more real examples than a Hackney housing estate, all you will find is dropouts who do occasional busking' is a statement i disagree with.

 

I am not attacking you, i don't know you, I am attacking what you say as patronising and dismissive of people I know who make a worthwhile contribution to what I consider my community.

 

I would also disagree strongly that the people on this forum (especially the more vociferous and right wing) are in any way typical of the people who live on the canals, thankfully. You should get out more.

[Roger Gunkel]

Well if your background is as you say, and i see no reason for you to lie, then you would know that a lot of the touring artistic communities; circus, touring theatre, touring musicians, are also those who live nomadic lifestyles, some because that is the way their performance seasons work some because they came to be nomads first and then chose performing arts as the way to pursue that lifestyle.

 

Of the touring artists I know, and I also have a long history in those areas, most by necessity, live in road vehicles but that doesn't negate the fact that i can (and did) point to 3 examples of my knowledge of the kind of community the OP sought. It also true that seasonal performers tend to find places to spend the winter that are a, community based and b. not houses and you will find such people on the boats.

 

So for you to come along and say, effectively, 'you won't find any more real examples than a Hackney housing estate, all you will find is dropouts who do occasional busking' is a statement i disagree with.

 

I am not attacking you, i don't know you, I am attacking what you say as patronising and dismissive of people I know who make a worthwhile contribution to what I consider my community.

 

I would also disagree strongly that the people on this forum (especially the more vociferous and right wing) are in any way typical of the people who live on the canals, thankfully. You should get out more.

 

You, along with a small number of other people on this forum, seem more intent on being confrontational and arrogant regarding differing opinions to your own, than simply expressing your point of view.

 

At no point in my posts have I been dismissive of people who choose to 'drop out' of normal society and it is you that is suggesting there is some sort of stigma attached to it, in the way that you attack my posts. You use the word 'dropout' as though it is dismissive, although you are perfectly happy to use 'Nomad' as it appears to have a more romantic association. I also mentioned quite clearly that those people I have worked with in the fields that we are discussing, have come from all walks of life, I suggest that you read the posts properly before adding your own wild interpretations.

 

You accuse me of being patronising and dismissive, but where at any point have I mentioned anything even resembling the words 'Hackney housing estates' or mentioned estates at all. I find that quite arrogant and insulting as for the first 20 years of my life I was bought up on a large council estate and most of my family come from Hackney, Stepney and Bow. I would suggest the very fact that you have even mentioned Hackney and estates would suggest you should sort out your own predudices and not falsely accuse others of having them.

 

As for most seasonal performers tending to spend the winter not in houses, what a load of complete and utter crap!! My whole life as an entertainer has been spent working and living with touring and seasonal entertainers and performers. I have known many touring with caravans and motor homes including myself and many more that are accomodated for the season where they are working, or staying in digs. Practically all of them have families and homes that are their permanent residencies, but they choose to stay near their work when touring or working a season. It is no different to being a travelling salesman, an oil rig worker or anyone that works away from home.

 

Rather than me getting out more, I think that perhaps you should look at ways of widening your own experience of that which you are keen to profess your expertise on and stop putting words into my mouth. I do not choose to blatantly attack other peoples opinions, but I am not prepared to sit quietly by whilst

you attack mine as being patronising and dismissive.

 

Why not let me express my opinion, whilst you express yours, without needing to launch personal attacks on me or anyone else, as seems to be coming more prevalent.

 

Roger

[Malarky]

They would probably be lynched!

 

Sorry if my customary good humour is absent this morning, all I really wanted to post was; For Gods sake grow up! but I thought that might be a bit OTT.

 

Ah... reality!

 

The anthropologist should take that info. back to their drawing board, or become part of the community and plug themselves into the "matrix".

[Tam & Di]

I'm intrigued that Ana thinks there are communities of people living on boats (which I would take to be at least three or four in a group) all of whom are self-sustainable eco-warriors, or all of whom are engaged (professionally?) in the performing arts. And that they would welcome being studied by an anthropologist.

 

It smacks of the common social science trait of knowing the answer and setting the scene to prove it is right - trouble is that my reply only shows me stereotyping social scientists in the same manner I've accused her of doing to boat dwellers - can't win, can you.

 

Did show there is not that much common ground among the Canal World community though, didn't it.

[Roger Gunkel]

I'm intrigued that Ana thinks there are communities of people living on boats (which I would take to be at least three or four in a group) all of whom are self-sustainable eco-warriors, or all of whom are engaged (professionally?) in the performing arts. And that they would welcome being studied by an anthropologist.

 

It smacks of the common social science trait of knowing the answer and setting the scene to prove it is right - trouble is that my reply only shows me stereotyping social scientists in the same manner I've accused her of doing to boat dwellers - can't win, can you.

 

Did show there is not that much common ground among the Canal World community though, didn't it.

 

I don't know, I think you have just expressed the common ground, better get your body armour on though

 

Roger

[journeyperson]

I think Ana is too traumatised to respond

[Steilsteven]

I think Ana has found out what we already know about this forum, you can't ask a simple question and just get a simple answer.

 

Keith

[sueb]

I think Ana has found out what we already know about this forum, you can't ask a simple question and just get a simple answer.

 

Keith

It's a weekend, she won't be back before Monday.

Sue

[kathleen bridget]

my cats have very good acrobatic skills, juggling the slippery deck/gunnels in the winter

[Ana]

Listen people, whatever I write it seems many of you are going to interpret the wrong way. It's a lot more intelligent to ask me specific questions about what I want to do, instead of presuming things about me and my objectives with this study. I made a short post to start a discussion, so thanks to those of you who have been helpful.

 

I had no intention of sounding like an anthropology twat that wants to go out and 'identify those exotic people living on boats'. I have lived and travelled in different continents and haven't been interested in that approach.

 

I have a pretty 'alternative' lifestyle living here in London, so for me it seems natural to try to find those like me that have an equal lifestyle on the boats. And usually they're artists, environmentalists etc....

 

I have posted this because what I'm looking for, isn't easy to find. Maybe I'll manage to find it, maybe not. And hey, I'm not worried about these communities being closed to outsiders, I totally understand that they would be. But I've been in enough of these situations, so it's really only a factor that has to be overcome, full stop. And at the end once people meet me they can feel my positive energy and we can have a great interaction, which usually works to my advantage.

 

So do jump at my throat if you have to, or have a chat with me if you're interested!

 

x

[dor]

I don't live on my boat, I'm not a performing artist and I don't follow an "alternative" lifestyle (at least not these days). But I don't think it would be difficult to find those that do fit that description. I'm sure most other contributors to this forum would feel the same so I'm not sure where the OP is coming from.

 

And I do think this forum is not a bad representation of the canal community as a whole, though if anything the 'real' community is a little more right-wing ...

[bottle]

Ana

 

What do you want to do?

 

What are the objectives of your study?

 

Are you looking for like minded people to be your friends?

 

Do you want to live in one of these communities?

[Lady Muck]

Ana, I don't think you'll have to look very far to find boaters like that in London. As mentioned before Hackney is a good starting point. Many of the boaters come from a squatting/anarchist/truck/caravan dwelling and even traveller background, many have known each other for decades. They might move around quite a bit (freelance jobs take them to different towns and cities), but I'd say they are definately a community of sorts. Have never met any circus performers (practising the trapeze is notoriously difficult on a boat), but there are plenty of artists and musicians.

[Roger Gunkel]

they can be alternative communities in the sense of being self-sustainable that are environmentally friendly,

and also for example artistic communities that have for example theatre, circus or dance improvisation on boats etc (you catch my drift)....

 

Ana,

 

Your original post suggests to me quite strongly that you are looking for boat dwelling communities that are self sustainable & environmentally friendly, and artistic communities.

 

To me, a self sustaining community, would be one where the whole community is working to achieve that end for the whole community. There are many people who live on boats that are attempting to or maybe even achieved that aim individually. It is something that I and others that I know would like to achieve. However that is nothing to do with a self sustaining community rather an individual desire. The same could be said of people in housing, many of whom add wind generators, grow their own vegetables, run solar hot water systems etc. again as individual households.

 

I would apply the same criteria to performance arts. There are quite likely boat based travelling theatres, art exhibitions as I think has already been alluded to. but these are more to do with staging the shows, rather than a way of life. I am sure you would accept that there are many floating restaurants which are all about the novelty value rather than a way of life. If you are looking for a floating community that collectively makes its living from performance, I think that is highly unlikely.

 

I and my wife are both professional entertainers and we live on a boat, but that is because we love living on a boat and happen to be entertainers. To earn a living collectively as part of a floating community, in my opinion would be impossible. The amount of work that would be available and accessible on the waterways, would not make it conceivable. Those people involved in circus performance for instance, would either be permanently part of a travelling circus, or would be speciality acts employed on varying contracts with big shows, displays or holiday work. Road transport would be essential for those sorts of performers. There are quite possibly amateur performers who would be able to take a boat to a riverside venue for a performance, but it would be extremely difficult for one person to make a living doing this, let alone a whole community. Certainly from my own perspective as a performer, I sometimes play at riverside or canalside venues and have even arrived on the boat before now, but 99% of the venues we work would be inaccessible by boat for practical purposes due to distance or time factors.

 

Living on a boat in itself is an alternative lifestyle, insomuch as it is not what most people do, but the actual requirements of day to day living mean that we live very much as we would in a house, with some differences that are neccessary, although the environment and surroundings are totally different.. Some people on boats like a very basic lifestyle, whilst others like myself require all the facilities of modern life, so our boat reflects that.

 

My comments here reflect my own opinions and whether they are of any help I have no idea. As you have already established contact on this forum, feel free to ask questions, bearing in mind the response that you have aroused. It would also be interesting to find out a little more about yourself and your alternative lifestyle in London and would help to build a relationship with people on here, rather than plunging in head first!

 

Good luck,

 

Roger

[blackrose]

I had no intention of sounding like an anthropology twat that wants to go out and 'identify those exotic people living on boats'.

 

Well unfortunately that was exactly what you sounded like to some of us.

Edited January 11, 2009 by blackrose

[SteveE]

Hi everyone!

 

I come from an anthropology background and am very interested in meeting communities living on canal boats.

 

I was wondering if anyone is part of one or knows of communities around the UK...

they can be alternative communities in the sense of being self-sustainable that are environmentally friendly,

and also for example artistic communities that have for example theatre, circus or dance improvisation on boats etc (you catch my drift)....

 

I live in London but I'd also like to get to know people in other parts of the country. Maybe you can't help me directly, but you might know someone that can, I would appreciate that.

 

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

 

Thanks,

Ana

 

Have you found anyone suitable yet?

SteveE

[Chris Pink]

If you are looking for a floating community that collectively makes its living from performance, I think that is highly unlikely.

 

As you have been told already that you are wrong, there are such communities, I am not sure why you keep saying they don't exist.

 

As i said before i am not attacking you, Roger Gunkel, but i stand by my right to disagree with you. I am quite mystified why you should take such offence rather than debating the issues.

 

and disagree with you i do.

 

There are people, who live in communities on boats who make their living by performing arts, there are also people who live in communities on boats who are exploring ways of low impact living.

 

Just because you close your eyes to those possibilities doesn't make them not true.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Chris Pink

[andywatson]

Ana

 

What do you want to do?

 

What are the objectives of your study?

 

Are you looking for like minded people to be your friends?

 

Do you want to live in one of these communities?

 

Anna,

I think bottle is asking fair questions and forum members are more likely to respond positively when they are answered.............

 

You get to know people on here after reading their posts (and making them yourself) over a period so you could do worse than that for the time being.

I'd guess you've put a few hackles up as your post could be read as you being an anthropologist and wanting to study those you refer to.

If however you are looking to join or contribute to such a community I think you'll eventually make some contacts through the forum although I 'd be surprised if the community you envisage actually exists as such.

 

If you accept a looser definition of community you'll find all types, some with rich history.

 

With regard to the dance improvisation I had a skinfull of ale on Saturday night then went in a disco so you missed seeing an expert.

[David Schweizer]

As you have been told already that you are wrong, there are such communities, I am not sure why you keep saying they don't exist.

 

As i said before i am not attacking you, Roger Gunkel, but i stand by my right to disagree with you. I am quite mystified why you should take such offence rather than debating the issues.

 

and disagree with you i do.

 

There are people, who live in communities on boats who make their living by performing arts, there are also people who live in communities on boats who are exploring ways of low impact living.

 

Just because you close your eyes to those possibilities doesn't make them not true.

You really are beginning to sound like Margaret Thatcher, by repeating the same statements of alledged fact, without producing any evidence to support them.

 

If there really are".... people, who live in communities on boats who make their living by performing arts..." and " , ...also people who live in communities on boats who are exploring ways of low impact living." then why not just tell Ana where they are, rather than keeping the information she has requested to yourself.

[grahoom]

" , ...also people who live in communities on boats who are exploring ways of low impact living." then why not just tell Ana where they are, rather than keeping the information she has requested to yourself.

 

I did provide a link that should help Ana out with respect to this part of her quest, but it seems to have been lost in the continued "squabble" - or "who can shout loudest".

 

here it is again

 

http://www.liloontheweb.org.uk/