Dudley Tunnel.

[Derek R.]

IIRC I heard the same. I seem to remember you can tell the brickwork is newer in the high bit.

 

Last visit we legged Union Canal Carriers 'Great Britain' through for the hell of it.....

 

 

 

 

IIRC I heard the same. I seem to remember you can tell the brickwork is newer in the high bit.

 

Last visit we legged Union Canal Carriers 'Great Britain' through for the hell of it.....

 

Was that one glass or two Neil?

[Hairy-Neil]

Was that one glass or two Neil?

 

The legging or the double posting?

 

The legging, we decided Gosty Hill was an ideal opportunity to try legging without delaying or otherwise incurring the wroth of other users/officialdom. What other narrow tunnels are that and infrequented? I'll add them to my list of things to do on a wet afternoon.....

 

The double post cold have been sleep deprivation, look at the time it/they were posted.....

[Derek R.]

The legging or the double posting?

 

The legging, we decided Gosty Hill was an ideal opportunity to try legging without delaying or otherwise incurring the wroth of other users/officialdom. What other narrow tunnels are that and infrequented? I'll add them to my list of things to do on a wet afternoon.....

 

The double post cold have been sleep deprivation, look at the time it/they were posted.....

 

I did notice the time! Hope you had a good evening, and the required amount of beverage!

[Richard T]

Had my most frightening boating experience in Gosty Hill. It is very tight and deceptive - the 'Keeping Up' photo sequence is taken from the east to west. The western portal is much higher and gives a false sense of security - only when a 150m or so inside does the roof drop suddenly and you have a mad dash to remove the chimney and the exhaust pipe as well as the plant pots!

 

However I digress we were going through many years ago in a 70ft hire boat. We were following another boat when we came to a complete stand still no amount of engine would move us forward or backwards. Investigation showed that we had a railway sleeper trapped between the boat and the tunnel wall - needless to say ths was on the opposite wall to the timber rubbing strake and chain on the tunnel wall. Presumably the boat in front had pushed it under the strake and got through. The tunnel is really narrow I think its tighter and as low as Harecastle. The sleeper was so firmly wedged that I jumped up and down on it to no avail. Fortunately the boat had a very substantial gang plank and using it as battering ram we managed to force the sleeper under water to where the hull started to taper and the ease it out and on the foredeck.

 

This took quite a long while so I had my teenage family starting to panic and I was thinking that I would have to walk 200m the nearest portal to get the emergency services out. Before we cleared the tunnel we also picked up a pallet. It was a frightening experience.

 

Friends did manage to pick up a body on the bows in Wast Hill a couple of years ago which was also a bit disconcerting!

Edited January 4, 2009 by Richard T

[Neil TNC]

Isn't that what the TNC did with Earnest? A load of paviours and a few barrels of water to increase the air draft

 

Yes, here we go: Tuesday Night Club on tour 2000

 

Perhaps Neil Arlidge will drop in and tell us about it.

 

Richard

 

Sorry for delay...I have only been dropping in here every so often.

The way things are on ukrw, I could be here a lot more from now on.

 

I would not say that the DCT were obstructive...but "their" guage at the Tipton end is! ;-)

Once we fitted through the guage they were extremely helpful...in fact they just wanted us out of the way as quick as possible, so as to not affect the trip boats.

We had two hours and a tow from the DCT tug. We were allowed 25 mins of "legging", where the tug dropped the tow and trickled ahead of us.

At the time, if you fitted the guage, the trip was free, we obviously had a whip round for the DCT.

I believe the DCT now adhere to the "must not be ballasted especially for the trip" rule.

ISTR that a TNC member did do an approximate calculation for extra weight carried and it did run into tons. At Oldbury Boat Services we loaded up 4 pallets (1m x 1m x 1m) of heavy pavoirs and water ballast was in the hip bath, gas locker, front well deck and 4 dustbins.

We had so much headroom in the tunnel that for the most part I was standing upright on the rear deck (providing most of the poling power during our pathetic legging section)

When we came out at the Park Head end Earnest's handrail went UNDER the outer part of the fixed guage.

Of all the stuff we have ever done, this was the most hassle!

I have just had a good rummage and found and scanned the old BW Dudley Tunnel guaging sheet.

I have added a link on the relevant TNC page, but here is the individual urls:

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/T00_Imag/Dudtun1.jpg

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/T00_Imag/Dudtun2.jpg

I made up a gauge out of three bits of 2 x 1 inch wood and a shout cardboard "arch".

[RLWP]

Sorry for delay...I have only been dropping in here every so often.

 

Hi Neil and thank you for this information - and for being an inspiration. I thought of the TNC when we took Tawny Owl to Titford pools.

 

Richard

 

I must work on my summoning and incantation powers, it took nearly a month to conjure him from the internet ether...

[OptedOut]

Thanks Neil Arlidge, Can I assume from your comment on ""their" Tipton end gauge that it may be set too low?

 

Thanks for the Trust document pics.

Edited January 13, 2009 by OptedOut

[Neil TNC]

Thanks Neil Arlidge, Can I assume from your comment on ""their" Tipton end gauge that it may be set too low?

 

Thanks for the Trust document pics.

 

Yes.

Taking into account the tumblehome of Earnest's cabin sides and where this would cause the corners of the handrail to hit the gauge (if you get my drift), by about 3 inches.

The (lack) of tumblehome and outer structural handrails are the problem.

 

If BW still had the Dudley Tunnel guide...I doubt whether you would get it out of them / staff aware they had the guide.

We were told at the time by someone in the DCT that BW washed their hands with the Dudley Tunnel as they did not want the responsibility of people getting stuck in it. Aparantly this was common place before it was locked up by the DCT.

[OptedOut]

Confirmed my worst suspicions really, of said "Trust" and BW.

[Keeping Up]

I believe the DCT now adhere to the "must not be ballasted especially for the trip" rule.

I cannot imagine any argument that the DCT or anyone else could put forward, that would convince me this rule was justified

[OptedOut]

I cannot imagine any argument that the DCT or anyone else could put forward, that would convince me this rule was justified

 

Nothing about the "Managing" of a public asset into the control of a small, narrow objective trust, can really be justified.

 

All politics and feel good factor for them.

[carlt]

I cannot imagine any argument that the DCT or anyone else could put forward, that would convince me this rule was justified

How deep is it?

[Keeping Up]

How deep is it?

I don't know, but a boat that is temporarily ballasted to a particular depth and headroom will be the same depth as a boat that is permanently ballasted to the same depth and headroom

[Elward]

I dont think you could ever accuse DCT and BW as being in a conspiracy together. As I seem to recall DCT have been nothing but a pain in the a**e to BW (and its predessors) since the early 60's. The tunnel is under the guardianship of BW, Dudley MBC and DCT - all concerns ploughing considerable sums of £££ and in DCT's case many (10,000's +) voluntary man / woman hours. Its possible to have this forum thread because the tunnel still survives and is navigable, albeit to the more traditionally shaped vessels (think square peg, round hole). Why would DCT want to stop Joe Public, canal enthusiasts and caving / geology groups going in when they've spent the past 40+ years trying to keep the thing open? It doen't add up sorry. There, I feel much better now!!

 

Can I offer some ideas / thoughts up on other items pulled up in this thread?

 

A gate at the Parkhead end was used so that boats locking down / up the Parkhead flight didn't draw the water from the tunnel and slow down the legged boats that were making passage to the Tipton.

 

The gate at Tipton end I would have thought is principally for security / safety, and to ensure that craft do not try to make their own passage through the tunnel without prior knowledge of DCT. You have to remember that there is not only the tunnel but also additional branch canals in to limestone mine systems (a whole new health and safety issue I would have thought).

 

The towing service is free - any gratuities are not expected and purely at the discression of the towed vessel. - I checked.

 

The gauge at the Tipton end replaced the fixed gauge in the portal to allow boats to gauge more easily. It is a fair gauge. The gauge at Parkhead is fixed, and again is a fair gauge. The tug skipper has the final say. They know the tunnel, they know the tug, they know the water movement. The water level has been known to rise up and over the towpath (approx 12") in a matter of minutes.

 

 

Any crews that want to leg all the way through can, but need to inform DCT of this so that adequate time can be allowed. The tug still goes with the vessel but stays about 20m ahead so that if any problems were encountered then a quick line can be made and towing recommenced.

 

Small unpowered craft are not permitted. This is a BW rule, not DCT.

 

DCT are there to provide a service. They do it well. They want boats to make the passage through - the more the better.

 

I sound biased because I am as I worked for DCT in the 90's. Its a wonderful piece of construction, and in DCT's hands it has a more secure future than it ever has since (and while) it was built.

 

Any more info can be found here

 

http://www.dudleytunnel.co.uk/

[Hairy-Neil]

I believe the DCT now adhere to the "must not be ballasted especially for the trip" rule.

 

I cannot imagine any argument that the DCT or anyone else could put forward, that would convince me this rule was justified

 

It will be to prevent sinkings in the tunnel. The rule will be to cover their arse as, if you sunk, they would be negligent if they let you navigate, knowing your boat had the additional ballast.

 

Boats have a minimum freeboard requirements above water level to deck drains, basin fittings, engine vents and gas locker drains, to comply with regulations. Boats ballasted especially for the trip would likely be non compliant.

 

That said it would be possible to have a new survey after the temporary ballast was added, to say it was not at risk.

[OptedOut]

Elward, I do not think I have mentioned "Conpiracy" since I started the thread?

 

The organizations you list as having an input into the tunnel really explains it all.

 

I would be interested in the details of the conditions that result in the level being 12 inches above the towpath.

Edited February 20, 2009 by OptedOut

[Hairy-Neil]

The water level has been known to rise up and over the towpath (approx 12") in a matter of minutes.

 

That's an awful lot of water. That pound stretches all the way from Anglesey Basin to the end of the Engine Arm at Smethwick...

[Neil TNC]

I dont think you could ever accuse DCT and BW as being in a conspiracy together. As I seem to recall DCT have been nothing but a pain in the a**e to BW (and its predessors) since the early 60's. The tunnel is under the guardianship of BW, Dudley MBC and DCT - all concerns ploughing considerable sums of £££ and in DCT's case many (10,000's +) voluntary man / woman hours. Its possible to have this forum thread because the tunnel still survives and is navigable, albeit to the more traditionally shaped vessels (think square peg, round hole). Why would DCT want to stop Joe Public, canal enthusiasts and caving / geology groups going in when they've spent the past 40+ years trying to keep the thing open? It doen't add up sorry. There, I feel much better now!!

 

Can I offer some ideas / thoughts up on other items pulled up in this thread?

 

A gate at the Parkhead end was used so that boats locking down / up the Parkhead flight didn't draw the water from the tunnel and slow down the legged boats that were making passage to the Tipton.

 

The gate at Tipton end I would have thought is principally for security / safety, and to ensure that craft do not try to make their own passage through the tunnel without prior knowledge of DCT. You have to remember that there is not only the tunnel but also additional branch canals in to limestone mine systems (a whole new health and safety issue I would have thought).

 

The towing service is free - any gratuities are not expected and purely at the discression of the towed vessel. - I checked.

 

The gauge at the Tipton end replaced the fixed gauge in the portal to allow boats to gauge more easily. It is a fair gauge. The gauge at Parkhead is fixed, and again is a fair gauge. The tug skipper has the final say. They know the tunnel, they know the tug, they know the water movement. The water level has been known to rise up and over the towpath (approx 12") in a matter of minutes.

 

 

Any crews that want to leg all the way through can, but need to inform DCT of this so that adequate time can be allowed. The tug still goes with the vessel but stays about 20m ahead so that if any problems were encountered then a quick line can be made and towing recommenced.

 

Small unpowered craft are not permitted. This is a BW rule, not DCT.

 

DCT are there to provide a service. They do it well. They want boats to make the passage through - the more the better.

 

I sound biased because I am as I worked for DCT in the 90's. Its a wonderful piece of construction, and in DCT's hands it has a more secure future than it ever has since (and while) it was built.

 

Any more info can be found here

 

http://www.dudleytunnel.co.uk/

 

 

The Park Head gauge is accurate to the old BW Dudley Tunnel guide.

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/T00_Imag/Dudtun1.jpg

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/T00_Imag/Dudtun2.jpg

Unless it has been altered since our passage in 2000, the Tipton gauge is 3" lower.

At the time I asked the DCT to look into this as they were not prepared to gauge boats at the Park Head end.

 

Park Head Gauge

 

Tipton Gauge

 

 

At the time of our passage a maximum of 2 hours was allowed in the tunnel.

 

As for depth, which someone else mentioned, we whacked something (metallic) on the bottom a couple of times, we reconed Earnest was nearly level at around 2ft 9ins draught at the time.

[Elward]

Sorry, probably not too clear. The water wasn't 12" above the towpath but rose up and over the towpath. A rise of about 12" in total. On more than one occasion, during torrential rain fall (June 2007 for example) the water rose up and over the towpath at the Tipton portal within 20 minutes. The rise was so quick that trips were suspended as the tripboats would have been unable to gain access to some parts of the system. There probably are photos as it was in a peak part of the season. Yes its a large 'pound' at this level however the water outfall is to Parkhead via a narrow tunnel in one direction and Lordwards canal to Dudley old line(via another gauging section 7ft wide)) so the rise was very localised and subsided within 30mins as I recall.

 

Opted out - page 2, bottom comment - you used the word conspiracy, although not directly implying, but your tones certainly lean that way throughout the whole thread. I also dont understand the 'The organizations you list as having an input into the tunnel really explains it all' comment. I'm just throwing some info around as I see it. Have you approached DCT directly and asked if they would take your boat through to Castlemill basin? They have the right to refuse if you boat doesn't pass under the gauge, but you can always ask.

 

Cant believe that DCT do not gauge at Parkhead for a tow through from end as this as this would suggest you can only travel in one direction, and I know for a fact this is not the case. I think though that everyboat is assessed individually and you cannot assume that what went for one vessel wouldn't go for another.

 

The accuracy of the gauges is always a topic of conversation. What you have to remember is that the gauge, at either end, is approx. 1inch wide whereas most boats are between 35 - 70ft (a generalism I know). The tunnel is not straight, and in more than one position there are outcrops of rock (its not lined all the way through) and kinks in the tunnels' construction. The gauges try to take this in to account which is why some may think they are too low. This question has been raised at DCT AGM's in the recent past and the accuracy has been looked in to. They are a fair guide, but I'm sure DCT are always assessing any comments - it would be suicidal for them if they didn't.

[OptedOut]

Elward, you are obviously correct about "Conspiracy" on page 2, only used in reply to someone elses suggestion I'm sure you will agree.

 

As I see Castle Mill Basin etc as a taxpayer funded asset I do not intend to enter into negotiations with

a third party to gain access.

[Elward]

Elward, you are obviously correct about "Conspiracy" on page 2, only used in reply to someone elses suggestion I'm sure you will agree.

 

As I see Castle Mill Basin etc as a taxpayer funded asset I do not intend to enter into negotiations with

a third party to gain access.

 

 

Well thats your decision Opted out - who am I to argue with you? I pay for Buckingham Palace - dont think they'll let me in though unless I fulfill certain criteria.

 

I suggest you join the local Usergroup and make approaches there or continue lobbying BW or even the local MP. Good luck.

[OptedOut]

Not quite the right analogy Buckingham Palace.

[Hairy-Neil]

Cant believe that DCT do not gauge at Parkhead for a tow through from end as this as this would suggest you can only travel in one direction, and I know for a fact this is not the case.

 

As I mentioned 60 odd posts back, we plan to return to tackle Dudley Tunnel in the not too distant future, though won't be this year. I will contact DCT requesting a Parkhead gauging and passage to Tipton, and will report back with the findings.

[Speedwheel]

Without the DCT, the tunnels would have been closed many years ago, under the control/vandalism of BW. If it had been left to BW there would be nothing left! I think the DCT have very much earned the right to have the control over the tunnel they do. Get over it!!

 

The gates are part of the Air Raid Precautions.

[OptedOut]

If it had been left to BW there would be nothing left! I think the DCT have very much earned the right to have the control over the tunnel they do. Get over it!!

 

Too much public money gone into it, I feel.