Josher Bows

[David Schweizer]

Your bow (though one of the most attractive metal bows on the cut, in my opinion) bears no resemblance to any Nurser bow I've worked on, or measured.

 

It does, however, look more accurate than Raymond's (though they did use the correct materials).

 

No offence was intended. If I were to ever have a modern metal boat then I would like a copy of your bows.

 

It's just not a Nurser, nor even close.

No offence taken, and thanks for the compliment, although that is really due to Dave Thomas or Roger Farringdon, who don't seem to be able to agree which of them actually fabricted it. I think it was Roger, but he is adamant that it was Dave.

 

I agree that if you took the measurements of the bow on my boat and compared them with a Nurser, the Nurser would be much longer and larger, but the profile is very similar to some Nursers. If I knew how to post them, I would post a photo of Hazel's bow and the bow on my boat for comparision.

 

But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter, it is still a very prettyy bow, and I love it. A lot of people have commented on it over the years.

Edited October 16, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Liam]

David, I'd be interested in the photos for comparison reasons... if you like, you could email them to me and I'll post on your behalf.

[carlt]

David, I'd be interested in the photos for comparison reasons... if you like, you could email them to me and I'll post on your behalf.

Just make sure they're Hazel's original bows....

[David Schweizer]

Just make sure they're Hazel's original bows....

Yes I think so the photo taken pre 1967 when Hazel was less than ten years old.

 

David, I'd be interested in the photos for comparison reasons... if you like, you could email them to me and I'll post on your behalf.

Yes please, I will email you shortly, as soon as I have sorted out the photos.

[alan_fincher]

Posted before, but worth a repeat.

 

Hazel in her Wyvern Shipping Company days.....

 

[Liam]

David, email address has been PM'd across to you.

[Liam]

Here are the pictures which David has sent over to me...

 

 

[tidal]

That's quite an interesting comparison as (when scaled up by printing and reversed) the curves and lines are very close to each other.

 

With the permission of the owner of the photo's would it be possible for me to copy these two images for future reference? as these are, for me by far, the two prettiest bow shapes I have seen.

 

*goes back to note the name of the builder of the later boat*

[Hairy-Neil]

I know it doesn't bend easily, but Norton Canes bows aren't formed from planks but substatntial sheets of steel with a double curve from the bow and another top to bottom. I'm not a builder personally, but I've seen dozens of their boats being built (and own Resolute too). I can only add that the process is long winded and exacting, the result superb.

 

Try it for yourself with a piece of paper.....it reacts the same as sheet metal, just much easier.... You can alter the arrangement simply enough but not the shape, it's impossible to get double curvature (shape) without either shrinking or stretching, or a combination of the two.........

Edited October 16, 2008 by Hairy-Neil

[Amicus]

A technique called, I think,"conic projection" produces a form that while not a double/compound curve can be arranged to look very much like it.

On a piece of paper draw the approximate shape of half a boat bottom, draw it diagonally across the paper, then roll the paper in to a cone(ish) fix it with a paper clip.

With a rule see how a curve is produced in the length of the boat (rocker) and a curve across the boat (turn) giving the impression of a double/compound curve. If you arrange the bow to the top of the cone the shape is more severe at the bow than at the stern.

jeesh, it's difficult to explain, innit

This stuff is used all the time with ply-wood boats.

[David Schweizer]

Thanks for posting the photos Liam, The top B&W one is The Nurser boat "Hazel" built in 1957 and the second coloured photo is my boat "Helvetia" Built by Braunston Canal Services in 1982. - fabricators Roger Faringdon and Dave Thomas.

I have no objections to anyone copying the pictures for their own personal use.

 

The photo of "Hazel" posted by Alan is interesting in so far as Baliol Fowden, the owner of Braunston Canal Services was working for Wyvern Shipping when "Hazel " was being operated by them.

[alan_fincher]

The photo of "Hazel" posted by Alan is interesting in so far as Baliol Fowden, the owner of Braunston Canal Services was working for Wyvern Shipping when "Hazel " was being operated by them.

Balliol Fowden had a small outboard powered boat, moored in Berkhamsted, in the early 70s.

 

It was a clinker built boat, presumably of lifeboat origin, and (to refer to another thread), possessed the type of outboard you could swing right round to go backwards.

 

I had a few trips out on her, including going down the navigable portion of the Wendover Arm in the days where you got a very strange look if you turned down there, and started ploughing through the weed.

 

I didn't realise he had ever worked for Wyvern, but believe before that he did some work for the long since gone Red Rose Cruisers, in Berkhamsted.

 

I remember being quite surprised at the guy who's modest boat I used to get trips on ending up heading up a boatbuilding firm.

 

They were (are!) nice looking boats.

[Laurence Hogg]

The premier league boatbuilders do seek to replicate the josher design elements throughout the shell, not just the bow.

(You have given me another opportunity to indulge in posting a pic of Grace)

 

 

 

Looking at the picture, it is a very nice boat but where are the "Josher elements"? Wromg type of pigeon box, rudder stock not vertical and arge GU type wheel?

[Dorman]

What are the thoughts on style of our boat--Equinox shell. Never really thought about it too much but we had a Black Country Narrowboat before and suffering an identity crisis!!

 

Sorry how do you insert a ******photo on this forum

 

 

Visit My Website

 

Did that work?

Edited January 30, 2010 by Dorman

[soldthehouse]

Generally, Josher style bows require much more work in the build process. To form them its just just a case of bending the steel round to form a pointy bow, but double curvatures, etc. Sometimes even "planks" of steel are welded together - this is done as its not just easier, but some times near possible to do with this one sheet of steel.

 

It depends who the boatbuilder is, though. I have seen plenty of boats advertised as a Josher bow but are clearly nothing like it. They look more like they have had their bows trapped between lock gates than anything.

 

If done correctly they look very good I think.

I have to agree with your second point, my novices effort at just welding together the easiest shape I could muster for a bow were accused of being of the "joshua" type and that was by a guy whod built a few boats. I had to laugh not only at the pronunciation but the fact that it was describe as such, it has to be the stubbiest snout ive seen for some time...

Edited January 30, 2010 by soldthehouse

[wrigglefingers]

I can't remember if I've posted these before, but if I have apologies, if I haven't then it might prove interesting. As David built the bows he took some progress photos and forwarded them to me. This is how the bow was built.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know David started with templates taken from an FMC Josher, but I can't remember offhand which one, and he also said that when he and Ian re-measured the boat, the templates were still within an inch of the original. I'll ask on Monday, if I remember, it'll be a welcome break from the bloody tiles!

 

And a big thanks to David for the photos, I'd have had no idea without them!

[andywatson]

What are the thoughts on style of our boat--Equinox shell. Never really thought about it too much but we had a Black Country Narrowboat before and suffering an identity crisis!!

 

Sorry how do you insert a ******photo on this forum

 

 

Visit My Website

 

Did that work?

 

It worked and I think it's a nice looking boat.

 

I've only seen a few Equinox boats for sale. Usually good looking trad / tug styled boats with vintage engines.

 

What happened to Equinox?

[andywatson]

I can't remember if I've posted these before, but if I have apologies, if I haven't then it might prove interesting. As David built the bows he took some progress photos and forwarded them to me. This is how the bow was built.

 

I know David started with templates taken from an FMC Josher, but I can't remember offhand which one, and he also said that when he and Ian re-measured the boat, the templates were still within an inch of the original. I'll ask on Monday, if I remember, it'll be a welcome break from the bloody tiles!

 

And a big thanks to David for the photos, I'd have had no idea without them!

 

You have put those photos up before - but they are worth seeing again.

 

I think DH and Ian tried the Josher patterns against President whilst some hull work was being carried out there.

 

For the record DH also has a set of Northwich compound curved bow patterns.

 

On the same subject, the building of a Northwich replica by Simon Wain is shown on the Brinklow Boat Services website.

http://www.brinklowboatservices.com/grus/

[wrigglefingers]

You have put those photos up before - but they are worth seeing again.

 

I think DH and Ian tried the Josher patterns against President whilst some hull work was being carried out there.

 

For the record DH also has a set of Northwich compound curved bow patterns.

 

On the same subject, the building of a Northwich replica by Simon Wain is shown on the Brinklow Boat Services website.

http://www.brinklowboatservices.com/grus/

 

Sorry Dr Watson, I knew I was rubbish and yes I did think it was President, but wasn't sure and I'm not keen on being shot down in flames......

Edited January 30, 2010 by wrigglefingers

[Dorman]

It worked and I think it's a nice looking boat.

 

I've only seen a few Equinox boats for sale. Usually good looking trad / tug styled boats with vintage engines.

 

What happened to Equinox?

 

The guy that ran the company, who was a top fabricator--name escapes me, went into property but the previous owner who had her built told me recently several people have approached him to build them a boat. Not sure if he's back in the industry.

 

Ive not come across many, ours have a Dorman 3AL--lovely engine but got to change the 22"x22" prop this year-maybe a AXIM as it should have a 25" apparently and runs a bit fast for 4.5 litres 3 cylinder.

[JLees]

Hi all

Back again! Quality builders may well have to scale down the original bow slightly, depending on the height of the hull sides. Roger Fuller does a good job INHO and when Resolute was put together an original wasn't far away to inspire, tho' not copy slavishly. Most imitations fall short on foredeck length..at least 5'6" is needed forward of the deck beam...and the latest posted pictures make me prostrate with dismal if they are being claimed as Josher bows.

To me the problem is that newer comers to boating read the ads and assume the claims to be correct, having no knowledge to compare the product with.

It's good to note from earlier posts that all is not quite lost...there are still those out there who appreciate the finer points of the boatbuilder's art. Thanks folks!

Dave

Excuse the ignorance but when you say deck beam, do you mean front doors or where the well ends?

[Athy]

I assume that it refers to the front end of the well deck.

Did Mr. Beans, the originator of this thread, ever get a boat built, or did the idea of deciding where, how and when to deploy the fenders discourage him?