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Josher Bows

mrbeats

By mrbeats
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dave moore Influencer

dave moore

Posted
Posted

Hi again

I recall many boats back in the 60s with bow fenders, at least, and I can't personally see the logic of lifting either bow or stern fenders on narrowboats ( I fully accept that yachting practice is different and for good reasons) when under way, altho' I cringe at the modern boat running along with side fenders either drooping or dangling in the water. Come to think of it, I don't remember side fenders in those days either, at least on narrowboats.

I find the bow fender especially useful when single handing uphill... I can step off at the tail of a narrow lock leaving the boat in head gear. The bow fender absorbs the impact as the boat nudges the striking plate. I can then close up and fill the lock, confident that if the boat moves back the rudder is protected by the stern fenders (they need to extend beyond the rudder of course) and then the head gear will help me open the top gate as a level is made. It's simply a case of efficient and effective working, something that working boaters (to whom time was money) understood absolutely. I don't seek to rush, but enjoy working with what I hope is calm efficiency. The aim is to maximise the time spent moving either forwards or backwards (or up or down) without needless stops.

Perhaps we should open a separate thread on efficient practice, this seems to have veered well off the"Josher bow" starting point....rather like some of the modern replicas!!! Cheers

Dave

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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted
The RYA also covers the inland helmsman courses.

 

I shall type this slowly...It is a peculiarity of narrow boats that their skippers leave their fenders deployed. Other boats , with experienced skippers, stow away fenders and any other potentially hazardous equipment, whilst underway.

 

This includes river boats, barges, yachts and motor boats.

 

I am not referring to the historic boating fraternity but making a distinction between narrowboats, both old and new, and other craft.

 

Watching an experienced skipper deploying fenders and warps whilst coming alongside is a fine sight.

 

Watching a narrow boat hanging up because the fenders haven't been stowed is not.

 

Not absolutely peculiar to Narrow Boats (or even narrowboats). Leeds & Liverpool Short Boats commonly 'wore' a stem fender, sometimes just a small tyre in later years, but sometimes two fenders - one at the top of the stem and one much lower down known as a 'cill fender'. I'm fairly certain without digging out pictures (I might do that later :lol: )that Humber Keels and similar Yorkshire craft used stem fenders when on the locked navigations, the lock gates were generally designed with the expectation of boats rubbing against them. On similar sized continental waterways boats are always kept away from the (often much flimsier) gates with ropes, and stem fenders are pretty much unknown AFAIR.

 

Tim

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down the north Contributor

down the north

Posted
Posted

Here Here Dave,,,,, when can I go boating with you ?????

Finding boatmen who 'understand'canals , water flow, pressure and stuff like this is now becoming all too rare, and if you hadent commented on typical 'one man' boating techniques above, I would have done. We all forget that in trade days, there werent loads of crew about, husband and wife on a pair, yes, a pair, or father and son etc, so efficient boating wasnt particularly about being fast, but about taking the WORK out of the job, which it was.

Turning to the running blocks on Az and Ilford, we (we think) are getting reasonably efficient at it, and we took 9 ton of limestone up the llangollen in august 'chiefly for fun' and we certainly had that. A stem fender on the butty a must as if we were heading uphill, and nothing appeared to be coming down, roger would cast off the butty at about 125 yards depending on speed and I'd steer for the bottom gates, on arrival going so slowly that a squelch from the fender finally cheked the butty's movement, the trick was to get off with the mast line to hold the boat against the gates once it had touched but before it had bounced back!!! its all in the timing,

Going downhill I strap every lock I can with the butty, and that is an art in itself. 9 ton of stone certainly helps as it gives the boat inertia, and speed entering a lock is not essential.Strapping empty butty is a pretty difficult job, as there isnt enough energy in it unless the bottom paddles are up, ( caggy style)

As long as there's a decent handrail I can strap the gate, but the main pull on the gate is not on the handrail, but on the gate itself with the handrail just providing a friction source to control the feed out of the strap, and then I also use it to hold the butty forward keeping the elum off the cill.

I cant bring to mind any gates that I didnt strap on our trip round, as with all these bollard things being in the wrong place, theres nothing to stop a butty in a single lock !!!

The posts put in at atherstone are useless;well' I did just manage to stop the butty on a middle post offside, and left the gate open as BW were tidying up after having had to put stop planks in to remove 2 small logs from the forebay !!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE !!!

We enjoyed our secong go at long lining up audlem, something that hasnt been done for probably 40 years. Adderley is also ok for that but tyrley the locks are too far apart to make it worth while, but again, critical timing is essential to make it work, and I 'tweaked' it with Roger after we got going just to give me time to shut the top gate of the butty depart lock, and then bike up to the next to open the bottom gates.

I've written it all down, as if it were done on a say, monthly basis, the boater would get good at it, really good at it, however when we got to the top of audlem, roger says, 'I havent seen the butty all evening, just an odd glimpse of the cratch',,, I could go on, and I aint even an old boatman !!!

Martin :lol:

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dave moore Influencer

dave moore

Posted
Posted
Here Here Dave,,,,, when can I go boating with you ?????

Finding boatmen who 'understand'canals , water flow, pressure and stuff like this is now becoming all too rare, and if you hadent commented on typical 'one man' boating techniques above, I would have done. We all forget that in trade days, there werent loads of crew about, husband and wife on a pair, yes, a pair, or father and son etc, so efficient boating wasnt particularly about being fast, but about taking the WORK out of the job, which it was.

Turning to the running blocks on Az and Ilford, we (we think) are getting reasonably efficient at it, and we took 9 ton of limestone up the llangollen in august 'chiefly for fun' and we certainly had that. A stem fender on the butty a must as if we were heading uphill, and nothing appeared to be coming down, roger would cast off the butty at about 125 yards depending on speed and I'd steer for the bottom gates, on arrival going so slowly that a squelch from the fender finally cheked the butty's movement, the trick was to get off with the mast line to hold the boat against the gates once it had touched but before it had bounced back!!! its all in the timing,

Going downhill I strap every lock I can with the butty, and that is an art in itself. 9 ton of stone certainly helps as it gives the boat inertia, and speed entering a lock is not essential.Strapping empty butty is a pretty difficult job, as there isnt enough energy in it unless the bottom paddles are up, ( caggy style)

As long as there's a decent handrail I can strap the gate, but the main pull on the gate is not on the handrail, but on the gate itself with the handrail just providing a friction source to control the feed out of the strap, and then I also use it to hold the butty forward keeping the elum off the cill.

I cant bring to mind any gates that I didnt strap on our trip round, as with all these bollard things being in the wrong place, theres nothing to stop a butty in a single lock !!!

The posts put in at atherstone are useless;well' I did just manage to stop the butty on a middle post offside, and left the gate open as BW were tidying up after having had to put stop planks in to remove 2 small logs from the forebay !!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE !!!

We enjoyed our secong go at long lining up audlem, something that hasnt been done for probably 40 years. Adderley is also ok for that but tyrley the locks are too far apart to make it worth while, but again, critical timing is essential to make it work, and I 'tweaked' it with Roger after we got going just to give me time to shut the top gate of the butty depart lock, and then bike up to the next to open the bottom gates.

I've written it all down, as if it were done on a say, monthly basis, the boater would get good at it, really good at it, however when we got to the top of audlem, roger says, 'I havent seen the butty all evening, just an odd glimpse of the cratch',,, I could go on, and I aint even an old boatman !!!

Martin :lol:

Hi Martin

You're welcome! It will be a pleasure to work with someone who understands efficient boating ways. Resolute is at Malcolm Braine's currently, I'll need to shift depending on stoppages (hven't looked yet!) towards Wolverhampton fairly soon. If you want to help, pm me later

Dave

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down the north Contributor

down the north

Posted
Posted
Hi Martin

You're welcome! It will be a pleasure to work with someone who understands efficient boating ways. Resolute is at Malcolm Braine's currently, I'll need to shift depending on stoppages (hven't looked yet!) towards Wolverhampton fairly soon. If you want to help, pm me later

Dave

 

Cheers Dave,

I'll check your fine vessel out as I live only .75 mile from malcolm's place, not surprised that youre tied up here, its a journey back in time !!

martin

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AMModels Experienced

AMModels

Posted
Posted (edited)

Compare Ressy to Grace and you would be hard put to say one is more realistic than the other and theres not a washer in sight on ressy

 

 

and Im sure I heard Dave say he needed the fender on for the women drivers he gets on her..... I shall get my coat!

Edited by AMModels
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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted
Dave, I think we should get rid of the bow fender on Ressy, look how good it looks without...

 

 

Then again, it looks bloody good with it too. :lol:

 

Very nice, but the fender is too big :lol:

 

Also IMO looks much better in the water than out of it.

 

Tim

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US Marines Community Regular

US Marines

Posted
Posted

Well, with pics of both the beautiful Ressy & Grace, Dave & Rob have done a fantastic job of demonstrating what a good 'replica' josher should look like ! :lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry, we're thick - Grace is a Roger Fuller hull - and, if we're not mistaken, is in this month's Waterways World - but who's the obviously highly skilled builder of Ressy's hull ? :lol:

 

Where's the 'green with envy' smiley when you need it ?

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magnetman Veteran II

magnetman

Posted
Posted
Well, with pics of both the beautiful Ressy & Grace, Dave & Rob have done a fantastic job of demonstrating what a good 'replica' josher should look like ! :lol::lol:;)

 

Sorry, we're thick - Grace is a Roger Fuller hull - and, if we're not mistaken, is in this month's Waterways World - but who's the obviously highly skilled builder of Ressy's hull ? :lol:

 

Where's the 'green with envy' smiley when you need it ?

Resolute was built by Norton Canes boatbuilders but I'm not sure that it is claiming to be a 'Josher replica' :lol:

 

I think it looks better without the front fender but I also think it looks better in the water and it seems you can't have both :o

 

 

 

 

 

And while I'm in a critical mood you really want to do something about that tunnel light ;)

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tinca steve Contributor

tinca steve

Posted
Posted

Going right back to the beginning re. Josher bows , would it be possible for those in the know of the people who can to let us not in the know who? i.e. NAME & FAME. Then those yet to have a NEW build can get ahead and save a lot time when selecting a builder :- NO builders to put their own names up ! ! :lol:

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dave moore Influencer

dave moore

Posted
Posted
Well, with pics of both the beautiful Ressy & Grace, Dave & Rob have done a fantastic job of demonstrating what a good 'replica' josher should look like ! :lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry, we're thick - Grace is a Roger Fuller hull - and, if we're not mistaken, is in this month's Waterways World - but who's the obviously highly skilled builder of Ressy's hull ? :lol:

 

Where's the 'green with envy' smiley when you need it ?

 

Hi folks

Resolute was built by Graham Edgson (and team) at Norton Canes Boatbuilders on the Cannock Extension Canal on the furthest reaches of the BCN. Like most premium quality builders, he seldom advertises, work comes by word of mouth and personal reccommendation. Graham and I go back a long time in boats, he took over from Malcolm Braine in the 80s and has developed the style subsequently. Malcolm got me into "proper" boating in the 60s and has an eye for a good looking boat ( his early output is still handsome compared to some modern work) and Graham has moved the ideas forward since then. Resolute was put together as a demonstrator for NCBB and continues to attract positive comment. I'm a very proud owner and am equally proud of my association with such a magnificent group of people who swim very much against the modern tide, as I do

Dave

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US Marines Community Regular

US Marines

Posted
Posted
Going right back to the beginning re. Josher bows , would it be possible for those in the know of the people who can to let us not in the know who? i.e. NAME & FAME. Then those yet to have a NEW build can get ahead and save a lot time when selecting a builder :- NO builders to put their own names up ! ! :lol:

 

Without being 'one of the ones in the know' its clear that Roger Fuller is one that can build them - and does.

 

On the basis of the photos, we would also have said that Norton Canes were too - but we're a bit puzzled by Magnetman's comment about Resolute possibly not being a 'Josher replica' - its got the double curves and the other beautiful lines....which is what we thought meant 'Josher' ?????

 

If that's not right, perhaps someone in the know could clarify precisely what a 'Josher Bow' actually is please..... :lol:

 

Hi folks

Resolute was built by Graham Edgson (and team) at Norton Canes Boatbuilders on the Cannock Extension Canal on the furthest reaches of the BCN. Like most premium quality builders, he seldom advertises, work comes by word of mouth and personal reccommendation. Graham and I go back a long time in boats, he took over from Malcolm Braine in the 80s and has developed the style subsequently. Malcolm got me into "proper" boating in the 60s and has an eye for a good looking boat ( his early output is still handsome compared to some modern work) and Graham has moved the ideas forward since then. Resolute was put together as a demonstrator for NCBB and continues to attract positive comment. I'm a very proud owner and am equally proud of my association with such a magnificent group of people who swim very much against the modern tide, as I do

Dave

And we won't get a higher recommendation than that - ever ! :lol:

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