Josher Bows

[mrbeats]

I have the finance in place to buy my shell but now I am getting the jitters.

Why do boats with Josher bows cost more?

For example one builder is offering a 50' sailaway for just under 20 k where a Josher is 26k.

[Liam]

Generally, Josher style bows require much more work in the build process. To form them its just just a case of bending the steel round to form a pointy bow, but double curvatures, etc. Sometimes even "planks" of steel are welded together - this is done as its not just easier, but some times near possible to do with this one sheet of steel.

 

It depends who the boatbuilder is, though. I have seen plenty of boats advertised as a Josher bow but are clearly nothing like it. They look more like they have had their bows trapped between lock gates than anything.

 

If done correctly they look very good I think.

[carlt]

I have the finance in place to buy my shell but now I am getting the jitters.

Why do boats with Josher bows cost more?

For example one builder is offering a 50' sailaway for just under 20 k where a Josher is 26k.

They don't. I've got a boat with josher bows you can have for free:

 

[mrbeats]

They don't. I've got a boat with josher bows you can have for free:

 

 

Hmm why do i sense a catch?

I will send you a message.

[Strads]

and it dosnt look half bad...

 

Carl - this one of your projects your looking to find a good home for?

[carlt]

Hmm why do i sense a catch?

I will send you a message.

Sorry folks, that was before it was torched by kids:

 

 

The Bows are still intact, though, so it must still be worth £6k.

 

Seriously, though, with a few extremely expensive exceptions, the josheresque bows and fake rivets just don't work, on modern boats.

[mrbeats]

Sorry folks, that was before it was torched by kids:

 

 

The Bows are still intact, though, so it must still be worth £6k.

 

Seriously, though, with a few extremely expensive exceptions, the josheresque bows and fake rivets just don't work, on modern boats.

 

It sickens me someone has done that to your boat I am sorry.

I agree with the whole fake rivet thing looking silly but i do like the josher bow but i just cant bring myself to pay so much extra for it.

[magnetman]

Generally, Josher style bows require much more work in the build process. To form them its just just a case of bending the steel round to form a pointy bow, but double curvatures, etc. Sometimes even "planks" of steel are welded together - this is done as its not just easier, but some times near possible to do with this one sheet of steel.

 

It depends who the boatbuilder is, though. I have seen plenty of boats advertised as a Josher bow but are clearly nothing like it. They look more like they have had their bows trapped between lock gates than anything.

 

If done correctly they look very good I think.

 

 

 

£6k more for a boat which looks completely ridiculous than one which just looks boring is a lot of money.

 

If it were one of a few noticeable exceptions then fair enough but I don't think they do 'sailaways'.

Who is the boatbuilder in question?

[mrbeats]

Mike Christian for the Josher sailaway offered through Cheshire narrowboats.

[alan_fincher]

Before commiting to any builders "Josher bow", first ask to see several examples of their work, then go and look at a few Joshers.

 

Most of them look nice enough, but "Josher like" most are not.

 

Some (in my opinion) look bloody terrible, and I'd include in that at least two of the builders who have a very high reputation.

 

Each to their own, I suppose, and it does at least provide work for somebody.

[dave moore]

Hi

Broadly, I agree with earlier comments. Decent bows with double curvature require a hell of a lot of work as opposed to simply pulling the bow sheets to a point and adding stem post capping. Similarly, many of the so called "Josher bows" claimed by various builders are a pastiche rather than the real thing. The handful of builders who get close spend much time pulling, tweaking and carefully welding will spend weeks, not days, producing a fine stem. I've watched two men spend most of a morning setting a pre bent stem bar in place and starting to attach bow plates. The care ansd precision is almost frightening but the end result is superb!

I suppose it's all a matter of priorities and certainly the end product is more expensive, but the shell is one of the fixed issues that can't be readily altered, unlike a fit out or paint scheme. Certainly the end product in some cases is worth the extra cash IMHO...have a look at my boat Resolute on page 9 of "Show off your Craft" to see what I mean.

I think I know who the pinched nosed builder is...certainly well known! Sadly, there are many who think the output authentic "Josher". A pity, because earlier work was much more sweetly proportioned and subtle.

Cheers

Dave

[magnetman]

Hi

Broadly, I agree with earlier comments. Decent bows with double curvature require a hell of a lot of work as opposed to simply pulling the bow sheets to a point and adding stem post capping. Similarly, many of the so called "Josher bows" claimed by various builders are a pastiche rather than the real thing. The handful of builders who get close spend much time pulling, tweaking and carefully welding will spend weeks, not days, producing a fine stem. I've watched two men spend most of a morning setting a pre bent stem bar in place and starting to attach bow plates. The care ansd precision is almost frightening but the end result is superb!

I suppose it's all a matter of priorities and certainly the end product is more expensive, but the shell is one of the fixed issues that can't be readily altered, unlike a fit out or paint scheme. Certainly the end product in some cases is worth the extra cash IMHO...have a look at my boat Resolute on page 9 of "Show off your Craft" to see what I mean.

I think I know who the pinched nosed builder is...certainly well known! Sadly, there are many who think the output authentic "Josher". A pity, because earlier work was much more sweetly proportioned and subtle.

Cheers

Dave

 

I find some of the 'pinched nose' imitations quite 'challenging' in terms of appearance. I can't understand how people could compare certain 'replicas' to the original. I actually think that the vast majority of 'Josher bows' are quite a grave insult to the original designer of the FMC boats. Its rude. I wonder if they could technically be legally prevented from using the name like the Melton Mowbray pork pie situation?

[dave moore]

I find some of the 'pinched nose' imitations quite 'challenging' in terms of appearance. I can't understand how people could compare certain 'replicas' to the original. I actually think that the vast majority of 'Josher bows' are quite a grave insult to the original designer of the FMC boats. Its rude. I wonder if they could technically be legally prevented from using the name like the Melton Mowbray pork pie situation?

 

Hear, hear!

Dave

[carlt]

I find some of the 'pinched nose' imitations quite 'challenging' in terms of appearance. I can't understand how people could compare certain 'replicas' to the original. I actually think that the vast majority of 'Josher bows' are quite a grave insult to the original designer of the FMC boats. Its rude. I wonder if they could technically be legally prevented from using the name like the Melton Mowbray pork pie situation?

I agree entirely, though it's quite hard, finding a free range Melton Mowbray.

[alan_fincher]

They look more like they have had their bows trapped between lock gates than anything.

 

 

Oh, I missed that first time through!

 

Brilliant!, Bloody brilliant!

 

What I can't get over is that one or two of the builders who have managed to produce that effect at great expense then seem to say, "that was good, wasn't it..... let's make it even more pronounced on future builds".

 

Still their owners seem very happy with them, which, at the end of the day, is all you actually need, I suppose.

[mrbeats]

I have seen a few and as said by someone else the shell is the one thing that cant be replaced.

I would like a Josher bow but the extra money would go a long way on a standard shell so to say.

When I walk up to my boat I want to feel excited and say ''just look at that'' and feel really happy about how it looks.

I dont want to be like oh I got what my money could get me as opposed to what I really wanted.

 

Am I being daft?

[carlt]

When I walk up to my boat I want to feel excited and say ''just look at that'' and feel really happy about how it looks.

I dont want to be like oh I got what my money could get me as opposed to what I really wanted.

 

Am I being daft?

Definitley not daft. But, if that is your sentiment you may regret spending extra for something that, with a bit of experience behind you, you may walk up to thinking "Those bows just aren't quite right."

[mrbeats]

I do understand some peoples view on not liking Josher bows as I feel the same about narrow beam straight sided dutch barge style boats.

In fact there is a builder on here who builds such shells who in my opinion puts a very over rated price on his shells.

[Liam]

I've just done a quick search for "Josher Bows" in Google and amongst the various results, this was one of them...

 

"Superb Josher hull"

 

Now I wouldn't mind, but this particular one is a modern cruiser sterned boat. Now, where's that head shaking smiley when you need it?

[mrbeats]

Definitley not daft. But, if that is your sentiment you may regret spending extra for something that, with a bit of experience behind you, you may walk up to thinking "Those bows just aren't quite right."

Where would I get this experience from Carl?

[alan_fincher]

You could set up a poll!

 

Pick your potential builder and post pictures of their "Josher style" work.

 

Simply ask the question "Does this look like a Josher, "Yes" or "No" ?.

 

Lots of these builders produce pretty enough boats, only the very best can really make it start to look like something it is not. Most fail, in my opinion.

[magnetman]

Where would I get this experience from Carl?

look carefully at EVERY narrow boat you EVER see.

 

I do agree with your straight sided comment

[bottle]

 

Comments gentlemen ?

[magnetman]

 

Comments gentlemen ?

 

 

no comment

[MikeV]

I've noticed quite a few of the "pinched nose" Josheresque boats on the cut and my thought was that there is probably at least a foot of additional length with no increase in well deck space or internal accommodation. Not only will you pay extra money up front, your license costs could also be higher if you break into the length range for licensing, adding perhaps £20-30 per year to your boating costs. Peanuts I suppose vs the total cost of boating, but still to my mind style taking precedence over function.

 

"Canoe" front boats may not be so elegant as a well formed Josher bow, or have less heritage, but they definitely lead in practicality.