First Boat purchase.

[jon14]

Hello everyone, whilst I have done a fair bit of Internet research, and visited the local marinas (and probably annoyed them with many questions)... I don't actually know any one "in" boating or with a boat, who's brains I can pick. Basically, is £40k a realistic budget to get a sound hulled (don't mind dated interiors etc) 50-55foot boat. I would intend to live aboard (initially in a marina) eventually. I'm aware of a lot of the shit bits in terms of creature comforts, as I have spent a large amount of my adult life in static caravans, how l ever are there specific boating related things I should be aware of?

Best wishes and thanks in advance for any help/pointers.

[Tony Brooks]

I would say, yes, as long as you don't get hung up on the age, but the problem is how do you know the hull is sound until you get a survey, but then if it is found not to be sound you have lost the survey & slipping/docking costs. Even if a surveyor does say the hull is sound, they may have missed a weak/poor spot.

 

If you posy any adverts here you someone may even know the boat and you will certainly get oppinions about it.

Edited August 2 by Tony Brooks

[jon14]

Great thanks, yes re survey money, assuming one will have to kiss a  few frogs so to speak....so will factor that in. Great tip re posting ads here thankyou 👍

[alan_fincher]

I think that your £40K budget should enable you to buy a reasonable boat, particularly if you are not to hung up on age, or on detail of the interior.

The tricky bit will be weeding out boats priced around that level which are simply worth nowhere near £40K, and to focus on ones where that price is sensible.  I suspect the will be more  boats in the "not worth it" category than in the "reasonable value" category, so you may have your work cut out.  The forum is a mine of useful information, so I would urge you to keep asking questions.

Edited August 2 by alan_fincher
Spelling

[Athy]

Yes, it's sorting the wheat from the chaff which is tricky for a tyro. May I suggest that the O.P. looks at the ABNB web site - they are reeputable brokers whose prices normally reflect a boat's market value.

[hider]

54 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, it's sorting the wheat from the chaff which is tricky for a tyro. May I suggest that the O.P. looks at the ABNB web site - they are reputable brokers whose prices normally reflect a boat's market value.

Good to see you back Athy. Corrected for you.

[LadyG]

I would say not to be fixated in requirements at this stage, so have  apollo duck set to maybe £39500 to £50000.

I believe offers of 10% less than asking price will be acceptable to some but not to others.

Brokers like ABNB and Rugby boats tend to be selling decent boats, but it's still buyer beware.

"Hilarity" looks OK.

It's a Barrus (?) engine .... is this the original engine?u

Has a seller survey, which would not bother me, but would be a red rag to some on here!

If you are going to live in a marina, this is going to be a significant annual outlay, might be best to check out prices and availability, and of course, you won't necessarily fiind them welcoming liveaboards with open arms. You do realise this?

2 hours ago, jon14 said:

Great thanks, yes re survey money, assuming one will have to kiss a  few frogs so to speak....so will factor that in. Great tip re posting ads here thankyou 👍

 Each frog is going to involve time and money, things which are always in short supply, so you really want to be sure the boat you select for survey looks half decent.

If a vendor has had good response to his advert he may not remove his boat from the market to accommodate you, and he may accept a similar bid from another buyer without the hassle/ risk. Just saying. 

Edited August 2 by LadyG

[jon14]

Yes thankyou I have been in touch with the local marina, re live aboard moorings/costs. I will still have a land address which is helpful and seems to open quite a few doors. Thankyou 😁 

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, jon14 said:

I have spent a large amount of my adult life in static caravans, how l ever are there specific boating related things I should be aware of?

Static caravans and boats in marinas have access to mains services. Continuously cruising boats don't.

The biggest issue you will find once you leave the marina will be generating enough electricity when it no longer comes from the mains, and that means some combination of your main engine, a separate generator and solar (forget wind on a canal boat). Solar is great in summer and OKish in spring and autumn, but all but useless in winter. Inadequate charging knackers batteries very quickly. The current trend is to go for lithium batteries, but there is no easy (or cheap) off-the-peg system available.

Loads on the forum about electrics if you look.

[jon14]

Thankyou, yes that in part is why I'm intending to start in a marina and then trial/research a few systems with a shore power safety net... It will be a steep learning curve as I have very little knowledge on electrical systems. Fortunately I have some friends who are! 🤞🙈

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, jon14 said:

It will be a steep learning curve as I have very little knowledge on electrical systems

 

www.tb-training.co.uk and study the electrical notes, print them out if you like, one section at a time. You may find the maintenance notes useful as well.

[DD.]

I am looking for boat in similar price range.

Although not quite ready to buy now (not far off).

 

My immediate criteria before going further in depth with narrowboats are. Engine, hull, blacking, bsc info, age and any survey history.

[Tony Brooks]

46 minutes ago, Amaya said:

I am looking for boat in similar price range.

Although not quite ready to buy now (not far off).

 

My immediate criteria before going further in depth with narrowboats are. Engine, hull, blacking, bsc info, age and any survey history.

 

If it is less than 20 years old and in several cases 30 years old, there is unlikely to be any survey history because surveys are not required. Older boats that have been insured third party never require a survey. Do not take any previous survey as worth the paper it is written on, they have been known to have been altered or done by a Nelson type surveyor. They can be used as a very rough guide as to if it is worth you commissioning your own survey or walk away.

 

BSC is only valid at the time of issue, owners do all sorts of things to their boats and some remove equipment they know would be a fail, get the certificate, and the put it all back. Buyer Beware, I am afraid.

 

A paper trail of invoices for servicing or service parts and other work helps build a picture of how well the boat has been maintained. Also, BSS bills, insurance certificates etc.

 

Many experienced boaters buy boats without a survey, but years of experience and knowledge tips them off if something feels wrong about the boat.

Edited August 2 by Tony Brooks

[Mickba]

Lots of boats to sift through.

A sound hull is paramount, but also I would avoid those with integral (pump out) waste tanks.

S/s fresh water tanks are preferable too.

[DD.]

I have seen a few with survey info. 

[MtB]

9 hours ago, jon14 said:

Basically, is £40k a realistic budget to get a sound hulled (don't mind dated interiors etc) 50-55foot boat.

 

I'd say this is on the low side, especially as at this length and price point you will be competing with 5,000 similar dreamers for about ten boats on the market matching this spec. 

 

I'd say either add £10k to your budget or add 10-15ft to the length. 70ft boats are bloody hard to sell compared to 55ft, and command a much lower price for a lot more boat. Also, look at this thread:

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/122186-pricing-a-boat-to-sell/

 

[DD.]

35 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If it is less than 20 years old and in several cases 30 years old, there is unlikely to be any survey history because surveys are not required. Older boats that have been insured third party never require a survey. Do not take any previous survey as worth the paper it is written on, they have been known to have been altered or done by a Nelson type surveyor. They can be used as a very rough guide as to if it is worth you commissioning your own survey or walk away.

 

BSC is only valid at the time of issue, owners do all sorts of things to their boats and some remove equipment they know would be a fail, get the certificate, and the put it all back. Buyer Beware, I am afraid.

 

A paper trail of invoices for servicing or service parts and other work helps build a picture of how well the boat has been maintained. Also, BSS bills, insurance certificates etc.

 

Many experienced boaters buy boats without a survey, but years of experience and knowledge tips them off if something feels wrong about the boat.

 

As I said above have seen a few. Well 2 lol with survey info.

 

But take your points and definitely something for me to bear in mind, regarding recent changes occurring after the event of any paperwork with the boat.

 

Thanks.

Edited August 2 by Amaya

[NarrowboatTor]

Recently seen a 70ft for 20k 50yrs old in need of "some work" (cough).

Mine cost around 38k 5 years ago built as a live aboard from day one in 2003 with one owner 55ft in length.

Was advertised as a bit more but the guy wanted a quick sale.

Survey came back ok and it was usable from day one, found out later it had been polished up ready for sale although most of it was just decorative issues.

I've spent around 3k on better electrics, solar, radiators etc and currently CCing so make sure you have a decent reserve for any changes or upgrades you might want to complete, again it'll be your personal choice.

I only went with this narrow boat as it both looked, felt and was priced right which suited me 🙂.

Your budget should get you something you like if not in perfect condition.

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Amaya said:

 

As I said above have seen a few. Well 2 lol with survey info.

 

But take your points and definitely something for me to bear in mind, regarding recent changes occurring after the event of any paperwork with the boat.

 

Thanks.

But you cant rely on that survey 

[DD.]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But you cant rely on that survey 

 

Yes I understand. But it helps build towards the whole picture of how a boat had been cared for. The more paperwork or info a owner has, doesn't guarantee anything, but indicates its worth having a closer look. For me anyway.

[agg221]

One occasional exception to the 'don't trust the seller's survey' general rule is when the survey is a year or two old and was needed to obtain comprehensive insurance. If you can see the policy and check with the insurer that everything is in order then the fact that the survey was not for the purposes of selling the boat can give a level of reassurance. Another one is when the survey was undertaken by one of a small handful of very respected surveyors. For example, ours is being surveyed by Mike Carter next week, because it is coming up to due for the five year insurance survey and we would rather address any issues while it is out and get a management plan in place. Hypothetically if it was for sale in a couple of years I would imagine anyone familiar with Mike's work would be reassured by this, even if they then had their own survey done. I know I would be if the situation was reversed.

 

Alec

[blackrose]

43 minutes ago, Amaya said:

 

Yes I understand. But it helps build towards the whole picture of how a boat had been cared for. The more paperwork or info a owner has, doesn't guarantee anything, but indicates its worth having a closer look. For me anyway.

 

There may be exceptions but in general a seller's survey should only be used as the basis on which to make a decision about whether to commission your own survey.

[MtB]

47 minutes ago, Amaya said:

 

Yes I understand. But it helps build towards the whole picture of how a boat had been cared for. The more paperwork or info a owner has, doesn't guarantee anything, but indicates its worth having a closer look. For me anyway.

 

 

Totally agree. It's like a wall. The more bricks in it, the more of a wall it becomes. No one brick makes it a wall, but all together they do. 

[blackrose]

19 minutes ago, agg221 said:

One occasional exception to the 'don't trust the seller's survey' general rule is when the survey is a year or two old and was needed to obtain comprehensive insurance. If you can see the policy and check with the insurer that everything is in order then the fact that the survey was not for the purposes of selling the boat can give a level of reassurance. 

 

I'm not sure I understand? How can one be sure exactly why a survey was commissioned by someone else a couple of years ago? They may have been selling it and changed their mind for example. And will an insurance company really want to discuss the details of a customer's insurance policy or survey with someone else they don't know who just contacts them out of the blue? Surely there would be data protection issues?

Edited August 2 by blackrose

[agg221]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not sure I understand? How can one be sure exactly why a survey was commissioned by someone else a couple of years ago? They may have been selling it and changed their mind for example. And will an insurance company really want to discuss the details of a customer's insurance policy or survey with someone else they don't know who just contacts them out of the blue? Surely there would be data protection issues?

You can't be sure, but it can help build a picture.

 

GDPR is often misunderstood (including by people in the insurance industry) but it relates to personal data. 'Is this boat insured by you?' is not personal data, and neither is 'has it been insured through you since XX/XX/XXXX?' The company may choose not to answer, but I have currently had a 50/50 success outcome on asking. If you are shown a copy of a comprehensive insurance policy and the insurer confirms that they have insured the boat since a particular date then it is supportive rather than definitive, ie another reason to head towards having a survey (or not if you are so inclined) rather than walking away.

 

Alec