First Boat purchase.

[Gybe Ho]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

The UK canals are generally pretty safe, and the most frequent major problem -- boats sinking in locks, usually due to cilling -- are mostly due to inattention or distraction, which are very difficult to train/test/certify against...

 

 

Or the highly viewed Daily Mail video of a narrow boat sinking in a lock in about 90 seconds. The crew had forgotten to secure down the weed hatch cover properly. No inland RYA training monopoly will eliminate that oversight.

[NarrowboatTor]

5 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Or the highly viewed Daily Mail video of a narrow boat sinking in a lock in about 90 seconds. The crew had forgotten to secure down the weed hatch cover properly. No inland RYA training monopoly will eliminate that oversight.

I wondered why it sank so fast, couldn't work out why it was sinking in open water and not hung up on the lock anywhere.

Cheers.

[Gybe Ho]

33 minutes ago, NarrowboatTor said:

I wondered why it sank so fast, couldn't work out why it was sinking in open water and not hung up on the lock anywhere.

Cheers.

 

I read some speculation that the weed hatch cover had been misplaced for longer and the crew failed to notice the reducing freeboard at the stern. Would a watertight bulkhead at the forward end of the stern engine compartment have prevented that?

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Keep the inland waterways free of pointless exams. Only the people who already obey the rules, look after their boats and pay their licence fee would take the examination, not the ones who have accidents and speed.

 

Dead right you are, there.

 

I'm sorely tempted to start an organisation specifically for canal boating, with the aim of setting up all the necessary controls.

 

I'd call it the "Canal Boating Association", or CBA for short. 

 

 

 

 

[cheesegas]

13 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

I read some speculation that the weed hatch cover had been misplaced for longer and the crew failed to notice the reducing freeboard at the stern. Would a watertight bulkhead at the forward end of the stern engine compartment have prevented that?

Pretty much all narrowboats do have a watertight bulkhead separating the engine compartment and the cabin. Seems to be an older design by Springer, Harborough Marine and perhaps a couple of others which don't have one, and the shower dumps the water straight into the bilge.

 

From speaking to someone who recovers sunk boats for a living, what seems to happen is that the engine compartment floods, the stern sits lower and lower until water comes in the vents, and by that time the water will be high enough to go over the top of the bulkhead and into the cabin. Some boats have higher bulkheads than others too.

[David Mack]

And some boats have a steel bulkhead across the front of the engine compartment, but it is not watertight around the holes that pipes and cables pass through.

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And some boats have a steel bulkhead across the front of the engine compartment, but it is not watertight around the holes that pipes and cables pass through.

 

and others have entrance step cutouts in the bulkhead, that are often lower than those pipe and wiring holes.

[Peanut]

The only reason I mentioned the RYA, the "Racing Yacht Association", is because someone mentioned compulsory training. The RYA would be there, front and centre in the queue to provide it, sharp elbows included, so be careful of what you ask for. They want to regulate everything that swims or floats, pond or sea. As I said, Karching £££

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Peanut said:

"Racing Yacht Association"

 

Or, more correctly, the "Royal Yachting Association"

[Gybe Ho]

3 hours ago, cheesegas said:

From speaking to someone who recovers sunk boats for a living, what seems to happen is that the engine compartment floods, the stern sits lower and lower until water comes in the vents, and by that time the water will be high enough to go over the top of the bulkhead and into the cabin. Some boats have higher bulkheads than others too.

 

 

Are these the engine breather vents in the hull side or the low level cabin ventilation vents? If the latter it is unfortunate the BSC regs ban closable cabin vents though I suppose CO poisoning is a greater risk than foundering narrowboats.

 

That video of the sinking has got me thinking about engine access panels that can be locked in place.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Gybe Ho said:

it is unfortunate the BSC regs ban closable cabin vents

 

 

No they don't - we have closable cabin vents and have had several BSSC.

[Peanut]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Or, more correctly, the "Royal Yachting Association"

Quite so.

[Gybe Ho]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No they don't - we have closable cabin vents and have had several BSSC.

 

 

High level or low level?

 

Any LPG appliances onboard?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

High level or low level?

 

Any LPG appliances onboard?

 

Totally irrelevant - try reading the regs (section 8:9:1) and then comment.

 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Are these the engine breather vents in the hull side or the low level cabin ventilation vents? If the latter it is unfortunate the BSC regs ban closable cabin vents though I suppose CO poisoning is a greater risk than foundering narrowboats.

 

That video of the sinking has got me thinking about engine access panels that can be locked in place.

 

ventilation is only advisory for private boats, so not a BSS issue for most boaters.

 

I think it is engine bay vents on the outside of the hull, they tend to be fairly large and on both sides/. At least on cruiser and semi-trad sterns, the engine vents can be placed on the inside cockpit area

 

[Gybe Ho]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

ventilation is only advisory for private boats, so not a BSS issue for most boaters.

 

 

Does that change if open flame (non flued) LPG appliances are fitted?

[Tony Brooks]

 

No. As Alan said, go and read the regulations before posting incorrect opinion.

[cheesegas]

16 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

Are these the engine breather vents in the hull side or the low level cabin ventilation vents?

It’s the engine breather vents into the engine space, which tend to be below the gunnel, especially on cruiser sterns. They’re even bigger on older boats with air cooler Listers, and tend to have ducting from the vent to the engines hot air outlet. 

[Gybe Ho]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

No. As Alan said, go and read the regulations before posting incorrect opinion.

 

I have. Boats fitted with LPG must have adequate ventilation and the definition of adequate is highly defined. The fitting of a closable vent on the inlet side would facilitate making the ventilation inadequate by definition. Maybe the interpretation of the gas regs has changed since you were professionally active in this area and closable vents are now a failure point.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

I have. Boats fitted with LPG must have adequate ventilation and the definition of adequate is highly defined. The fitting of a closable vent on the inlet side would facilitate making the ventilation inadequate by definition. Maybe the interpretation of the gas regs has changed since you were professionally active in this area and closable vents are now a failure point.

 

 

 

Yes, they have. On private boats, the BSS ventilation requirements became NON-MANDATORY.

 

Thee gas regs have no bearing on boats unless their use is counted as housing. Stop trying to apply regulations that do not apply to the majority of boats to prove your point. Just go and read the BSS reg for yourself.

 

In fact, our resident boating gas fitter has posted to the effect that the gas regs that apply to houses do not apply to boats. If you know differently, please post your proof so we can all learn.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

I have

 

You obviously have not read them.

 

Read section 8:9:1.

The regulations do not apply to leisure (non commercial) boats

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You obviously have not read them.

 

Read section 8:9:1.

The regulations do not apply to leisure (non commercial) boats

 

I think he may be talking about the GSIUR (or whatever the house ones re called), not the BSS.

Edited August 12 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think he may be talking about the GSRU (or whatever the house ones re called), not the BSS.

 

GSIUR which are relevant only for Residential properties.

 

The BSS as everyone (except him) knows does not require ANY ventilation for lesisure (non-commercial) boats.

I've even given him the chapter to read - maybe its the lack of pictures causing the problem

 

/s

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

GSIUR which are relevant only for Residential properties.

 

The BSS as everyone (except him) knows does not require ANY ventilation for lesisure (non-commercial) boats.

I've even given him the chapter to read - maybe its the lack of pictures causing the problem

 

/s

 

I suspect he does not need to read them as he knows it all already.

 

 

[Gybe Ho]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, they have. On private boats, the BSS ventilation requirements became NON-MANDATORY.

 

 

Lets break this down. There is general ventilation and ventilation specific to having LPG appliances fitted on boat.

 

The presence of LPG on board requires passing a boat version of a GasSafe inspection?

 

If the GasSafe inspection certificate is missing or present with listed failures, can a BSC be issued?

 

Boat GasSafe inspectors require additional training to operate as boat gas inspectors.

 

It is possible that prevailing working practice within the small community of boat gassafe inspections differs from your interpretation of the regulations and they err on the side of caution?