RCD and RCA

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Come on you guys who keep doom-mongering about this, why not come up with some actual evidence instead of theoretical speculation?

 You’v got more chance of spotting a label telling you how to connect and disconnect a shore power lead next to a shore line socket👍😂⚡️⚡️

[Alan de Enfield]

When a supposed experienced boat electrician doesn't know what order to connect battery terminals, what hope is there of an uninformed boater connecting a mains lead in the correct way.

 

(You do realise there is a right and wrong way don't you ?)

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When a supposed experienced boat electrician doesn't know what order to connect battery terminals, what hope is there of an uninformed boater connecting a mains lead in the correct way.

 

(You do realise there is a right and wrong way don't you ?)

 

And lots of boaters have been killed by doing it the wrong way, obviously.

 

Or have they? 

 

And if not, WTF does it matter?

[matty40s]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And lots of boaters have been killed by doing it the wrong way, obviously.

 

Or have they? 

 

And if not, WTF does it matter?

Hundreds of them, luckily, this keeps the 2nd hand boat market moving so is overlooked.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

On 13/07/2024 at 09:18, jddevel said:

Labelling procedure how the shoreline should be connected and disconnected.

 

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When a supposed experienced boat electrician doesn't know what order to connect battery terminals, what hope is there of an uninformed boater connecting a mains lead in the correct way.

 

(You do realise there is a right and wrong way don't you ?)

 You do realise he was talking about hooking up a shore line, not actuality wiring the thing or wiring the input socket ⚡️⚡️

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 

 You do realise he was talking about hooking up a shore line, not actuality wiring the thing or wiring the input socket ⚡️⚡️

Surely you mean input plug. Which is on the boat 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 

 You do realise he was talking about hooking up a shore line, not actuality wiring the thing or wiring the input socket ⚡️⚡️

 

Yes exactly what I thught he meant.

 

So you don't know there is a right and wrong way ?

2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Surely you mean input plug. Which is on the boat 

 

He seems a little bit confused between his plugs and his sockets.

[Tonka]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes exactly what I thught he meant.

 

So you don't know there is a right and wrong way ?

 

He seems a little bit confused between his plugs and his sockets.

He'd soon realise his mistake if he moored in a marina and plugged in the shoreline to the bollard the other end wouldn't fit into the boat

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

15 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Surely you mean input plug. Which is on the boat 

Yes the input connection on the boat.

Edited July 14 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Yes the input connection on the boat.

But which is it. A plug or a socket

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

But which is it. A plug or a socket

An inlet, socket, plug, right or wrong? As if you Google search they’re called either inlet, socket or plug. I’ve also seen similar called an Inlet male power socket, so I’ll just call it a power inlet to save confusion, is that ok?  I’m sure all boat shoreline inlets are the same. Is it in the  RCD/RCR directives, I’m sure someone will cut’de’paste the relevant pages if so😂

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

He'd soon realise his mistake if he moored in a marina and plugged in the shoreline to the bollard the other end wouldn't fit into the boat

Plugged my boat and many others into Marina bollards and never got it wrong. How can you get it wrong with a correctly terminated bollard/cable/boat power inlet? Please explain? Or quote the relevant guidelines😂

Edited July 14 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Plugged my boat and many others into Marina bollards and never got it wrong. How can you get it wrong with a correctly terminated bollard/cable/boat power inlet? Please explain? Or quote the relevant guidelines😂

 

I expect he is talking about basic common sense and safety, like plug the boat end in first, so the cable is still dead, and then into the shore bollard. Doing it the other way round risks, be it a very small risk, of dropping a live cable end into the canal or possibly getting a shock.

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

basic common sense

 

Which is remakedly uncommon, particularly from house dwellers playing boaters.

[Mike Hurley]

Just noticed on Wilton/Venetian sales sites that boats are now listed showing RCD/RCR compliant or not, some for sale showing not compliant yet built in the 2000s.

[Bee]

20 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Just noticed on Wilton/Venetian sales sites that boats are now listed showing RCD/RCR compliant or not, some for sale showing not compliant yet built in the 2000s.

My boat must be compliant - I built it myself and then filled the form in saying it was..........

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Which is remakedly uncommon, particularly from house dwellers playing boaters.

Doesn’t house dweller playing boater includes you? Or do you live full time 24/7 on your boat?

Often your common sense is questionable when you keep quoting regulations regarding offshore vessels and think they’re workable on a Narrowboat.

 Looking at what full time livaboards ask on here it highlights that there’s lots of full time boaters with little common sense also😂

1 hour ago, Mike Hurley said:

Just noticed on Wilton/Venetian sales sites that boats are now listed showing RCD/RCR compliant or not, some for sale showing not compliant yet built in the 2000s.

Just shows what some people are saying on here about the BMF saying Brokers cannot sell qualifying boats without a RCD/RCR is total nonsense and this is a big Narrowboat broker. It’s happening every day by National brokers selling second hand boats. Some on here think it’s not.
  

Edited July 15 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Mike Hurley said:

Just noticed on Wilton/Venetian sales sites that boats are now listed showing RCD/RCR compliant or not, some for sale showing not compliant yet built in the 2000s.

The inland waterways brokers have decided that this is the only way to deal with the BMF insistence on the post Brexit RCR/ PCA madness. You will see similar appearing on all the major broker sites.

[Tony Brooks]

35 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Doesn’t house dweller playing boaters includes you? Or do you live full time 24/7 on your boat?

Often your common sense is questionable when you keep quoting regulations regarding offshore vessels and think they’re workable on a Narrowboat😂

Just shows what some people are saying on here about the BMF saying Brokers cannot sell qualifying boats without a RCD/RCR is total nonsense and this is a big Narrowboat broker. It’s happening every day by National brokers selling second hand boats. Some on here think it’s not.
  

 

1. The law is the law, no matter how idiotic it appears to you and many of us. You promote ignoring the law of the land, however silly it may seem, others think that deliberately encouraging others to ignore or breach that law and then have to face the potential consequences on their own is pretty anti-social and irresponsible. If you are so incensed by the law, then campaign to get it changed to something more acceptable to you.

 

2. No one has said that brokers can not sell boats without an RCR/RCD, what has been said is that the brokers trade association has advised them not to and some have heeded that advice. brokers who are not members of BMF are free to do as they like and take any consequences, BMF members can also ignore the advice given. In any case it is the vendor, not the broker, who is breaking the law in selling in scope boats without the necessary certificates. That is all that has been said by myself and Alan, the fact that you choose to claim something different relates to you, your attitude, and your understanding of the word potential.

 

Things will go an as they are now, with all the uncertainty, until we get some case law or a change in the law, both of which are likely to take a considerable time.

[Iain_S]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

My boat must be compliant - I built it myself and then filled the form in saying it was..........

... which you're quite entitled to do. However, it does make it a bit of a nonsense that a qualified surveyor is needed for a PCA.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Iain_S said:

... which you're quite entitled to do. However, it does make it a bit of a nonsense that a qualified surveyor is needed for a PCA.

 

True, but remember that the BMF is just a trade association, rather than representing boaters, so its first duty is to its members. By getting the certification done by specially licensed surveyors makes more work for members, and far more lucrative work at that. This is just anther example of governments privatising the enforcement of government regulations.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

1. The law is the law, no matter how idiotic it appears to you and many of us. You promote ignoring the law of the land, however silly it may seem, others think that deliberately encouraging others to ignore or breach that law and then have to face the potential consequences on their own is pretty anti-social and irresponsible. If you are so incensed by the law, then campaign to get it changed to something more acceptable to you.

 

2. No one has said that brokers can not sell boats without an RCR/RCD, what has been said is that the brokers trade association has advised them not to and some have heeded that advice. brokers who are not members of BMF are free to do as they like and take any consequences, BMF members can also ignore the advice given. In any case it is the vendor, not the broker, who is breaking the law in selling in scope boats without the necessary certificates. That is all that has been said by myself and Alan, the fact that you choose to claim something different relates to you, your attitude, and your understanding of the word potential.

 

Things will go an as they are now, with all the uncertainty, until we get some case law or a change in the law, both of which are likely to take a considerable time.

What are you going on about, you make me sound like some sort of Anarchist.

 All I’ve said in most posts like many others that it’s total nonsense that all qualifying boats need to have a current RCA/PCA for the broker to sell and it’s not happening.

 You have kept going on about the law.

Well it looks like brokers have used their common sense and are selling boats without a current RCD, so in your eyes they’re breaking the law? Common sense seems to have prevailed like it or not👍

Edited July 15 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

What are you going on about, you make me sound like some sort of Anarchist.

 All I’ve said in most posts like many others that it’s total nonsense that all qualifying boats need to have a current RCD for the broker to sell and it’s not happening.

 You have kept going on about the law.

Well it looks like brokers have used their common sense and are selling boats without a current RCD, so in your eyes they’re breaking the law? Common sense seems to have prevailed like it or not👍

 

Every time your words encourage purchasers and self-fitouters to ignore the RCD/RCR without any warning to the POTENTIAL consequences, then you are acting like an anarchist. If you were willing to give a personal indemnity against future legal action to those who act on your published words (that look very like advice to me), then things would be different, but I lay odd that there is no way that you will do that.

 

If brokers have found a way around the requirements their trade body seems to have imposed on them, then good, but that does not remove any potential future problems from the vendor and purchaser.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

33 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Every time your words encourage purchasers and self-fitouters to ignore the RCD/RCR without any warning to the POTENTIAL consequences, then you are acting like an anarchist. If you were willing to give a personal indemnity against future legal action to those who act on your published words (that look very like advice to me), then things would be different, but I lay odd that there is no way that you will do that.

 

If brokers have found a way around the requirements their trade body seems to have imposed on them, then good, but that does not remove any potential future problems from the vendor and purchaser.

I’ll say it again what are you going on about. You really are rambling on now to justify your cause. 
 I have never encouraged self fit out boats to disregard the RCD/RCR the same goes for buyers. All I’ve said on all the topics on the RCD is that brokers can and have sold qualifying boats without a RCD. You have constantly Scaremongered the subject with your posts and are still doing it. You’ve spoke of builders and buyers and problems with RCD’s but have provided little real world evidence. 
 It looks like common sense has prevailed with boat selling and buying with regards to Brokers,

 I’m sure you’ll still be Scaremongering potential buyers and sellers on the subject of RCD/PCA law and recommending buyers to buy boats with an RCD👍

Edited July 15 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I’ll say it again what are you going on about. You really are rambling on now to justify your cause. 
 I have never encouraged self fit out boats to disregard the RCD/RCR the same goes for buyers. All I’ve said on all the topics on the RCD is that brokers can and have sold qualifying boats without a RCD. You have constantly Scaremongered the subject with your posts and are still doing it. You’ve spoke of builders and buyers and problems with RCD’s but have provided little real world evidence. 
 It looks like common sense has prevailed with boat selling and buying with regards to Brokers,

 I’m sure you’ll still be Scaremongering potential buyers and sellers on the subject of RCD/PCA law and recommending buyers to buy boats with an RCD👍

 

Yes, you are correct, I will continue to WARN, not scaremonger, that there are POTENTIAL consequences of obtaining a post 1998 boat without the RCD/RCR paperwork until such time as it can be PROVEN that there are no potential consequences. Now, I ask you to provide EVIDENCE that there are ABSOLUTELY NO potential consequences of buying an in scope boat without the required paperwork. I note that you are not willing to give purchasers of such boats without the paperwork your personal indemnity against future problems resulting from the lack of paperwork. That tells me that you know there may well be POTENTIAL problems over the coming years, otherwise you would have no worries about doing so.

 

There is really no point in taking to you about this because you refuse to accept that there might be POTENTIAL problems despite what the law says.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, you are correct, I will continue to WARN, not scaremonger, that there are POTENTIAL consequences of obtaining a post 1998 boat without the RCD/RCR paperwork until such time as it can be PROVEN that there are no potential consequences. Now, I ask you to provide EVIDENCE that there are ABSOLUTELY NO potential consequences of buying an in scope boat without the required paperwork. I note that you are not willing to give purchasers of such boats without the paperwork your personal indemnity against future problems resulting from the lack of paperwork. That tells me that you know there may well be POTENTIAL problems over the coming years, otherwise you would have no worries about doing so.

 

There is really no point in taking to you about this because you refuse to accept that there might be POTENTIAL problems despite what the law says.

The more you go on with posts like this, the more you confirm my belief that you’re a total jobsworth. Please warn everyone of the consequences of buying a boat without an RCD even on 20 year old multi owner boats, if they all take your advice as gospel a lot will be missing out on good quality boats

👍

 Anyway moving a qualifying boat up the Trent, just checked and no fixed anchor point on the bow😱

Luckily it hasn’t got a cheesy Leerdammer ‘T’ stud🧀😂😂

Edited July 15 by BoatinglifeupNorth