Diesel Bug?

[cuthound]

Twice on my current trip, the engine has stalled and refused to restart whilst I have been untying ready to let go in the morning.

 

On both occasions my WASP filter has had this creamy contamination in it. See photo below.

 

The diesel filter on the engine has been completely clean both times, although I replaced it with my onboard spare the first time and the engine starts and runs perfectly once the contaminant has been removed and the WASP filter cleaned.

 

The diesel is only a couple of months old and is a healthy clear red colour.

 

I vacuum the bottom of the tank to remove water every year.

 

So, what is it and what can I do to prevent it from reoccurring? The handful of examples I saw when working, albeit on FAME free diesel, were much darker in colour and finer, almost like a slime.

 

I'm thinking of treating the tank with a biocide and if the problem reoccurs then getting my virtually full tank of diesel polished.

 

Any other recommendations, including recommended biocides?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27 by cuthound
Clarification

[JoeC]

I personally use Marine 16 stuff. I am a continuous cruiser so use the fuel in the tank rather than it sitting there on boats that are not used a lot.

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, JoeC said:

I personally use Marine 16 stuff. I am a continuous cruiser so use the fuel in the tank rather than it sitting there on boats that are not used a lot.

I expect OP knows thar regular use of diesel from a source of good diesel is ideal, but he seeks advice on his current issue.

Ive used Diesel Boost and Marine 16, but i dont know what i would do in his situation.

I'd be inclined to empty the tank in to 20l plastic containers posiibly sourced from car washes. Then add some additive, and decant   contaminated fuel. I got rid of mine in a garage.

 

 

[Tonka]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I expect OP knows thar regular use of diesel from a source of good diesel is ideal, but he seeks advice on his current issue.

Ive used Diesel Boost and Marine 16, but i dont know what i would do in his situation.

I'd be inclined to empty the tank in to 20l plastic containers posiibly sourced from car washes. Then add some additive, and decant   contaminated fuel. I got rid of mine in a garage.

 

 

Marine 16 also do a diesel bug killer.

I have used it in my tank

[LadyG]

I did not see the photo earlier, when OP described it as creamy I was thinking an emulsion of water and oil, but the photo is clearly a jelly, which I believe is diesel bug .

So while polishing may clean the fuel which is in the tank, I m not convinced  it will remove the bug from the tank.

I'd still remove the fuel from the tank, it can take up to three days to settle, decant and filter

I have heard of people using aquarium filters.

There is no doubt a good pump, with copper pipe extention to suck stuff up, and a lot of messing about will be involved in flushing through the system.

Removal of the bacteria, the jelly, and WATER from the fuel must be a priority.

You might be able to get technical advice from the manufacturers of the additives.

I think that some are bactericidal, ie kill the active bug, and some create an emulsion to remove the water, suggesting you would need both types.

I am not a technical expert, just putting forward some things I have seen on the Internet.

In Ye Olden Days we used to use a chamois leather filter lining a large conical filter funnel to prevent crud getting in to our tank, but we were buying from farmers and fishermen in those days. I dont think I've seen chamois for about twenty years, but I think any filter is better than no filter.

Edited June 28 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Normally one expects fuel filter flow is into the outside, through the filter - so any crud caught on the filter can fall into the bowl, and then out of the centre of the element. looking at the photo (and this might be an imaging thing) the middle looks more reddish brown than the outside. So, although I doubt this will affect the problem, is the OP sure the flow is as it should be.

[Tonka]

51 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Normally one expects fuel filter flow is into the outside, through the filter - so any crud caught on the filter can fall into the bowl, and then out of the centre of the element. looking at the photo (and this might be an imaging thing) the middle looks more reddish brown than the outside. So, although I doubt this will affect the problem, is the OP sure the flow is as it should be.

Is the op's wasp filter before or after the lift pump.

Because isn't there a gauze in the lift pump

[Tony Brooks]

Wasp filters normally take the place of the primary filter/sedimentor/agglomerator, so one would expect it to be before the lift pump. Anyway, many modern engines do not have a strainer or filter in the lift pump, even some BMC lift pumps don't have strainers. So without an engine, make and modeel we have no idea about any pump stainer/filter.

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Wasp filters normally take the place of the primary filter/sedimentor/agglomerator, so one would expect it to be before the lift pump. Anyway, many modern engines do not have a strainer or filter in the lift pump, even some BMC lift pumps don't have strainers. So without an engine, make and modeel we have no idea about any pump stainer/filter.

On my BD3 the primary filter is after the lift pump.

Which is why I asked the question

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tonka said:

On my BD3 the primary filter is after the lift pump.

Which is why I asked the question

 

Not sure exactly what you call the primary filter, I gave three definitions for those fitted before the lift pump. You might be referring to the main or engine filter that is fitted after the lift pump. Primary filters/sedimentors and agglomerators are not normally part of the maximisation and are supplied and fitted by the installer. If you have two filters after the lift pump then it sounds as if someone did not know what they were doing and if there is no strainer on the lift pump inlet stands the risk of the pump valves clogging or jamming open.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Wasp filters normally take the place of the primary filter/sedimentor/agglomerator, so one would expect it to be before the lift pump. Anyway, many modern engines do not have a strainer or filter in the lift pump, even some BMC lift pumps don't have strainers. So without an engine, make and modeel we have no idea about any pump stainer/filter.

 

The engine is a Beta 43. The WASP filter is between the tank and the lift pump which in turn is before the filter mounted on the engine. I don't think the lift pump has a strainer fitted.

 

Today I pumped some fuel from the bottom of the tank and let it settle. It is a clear red colour.

 

There is some light brown sediment that usually isn't there which hopefully I have removed but I was surprised to find no trace of water. See photo.

 

I have added a shock dose of Marine 16 Diesel Bug Treatment and will leave it a few days before trying to pump out any further sediment from the bottom of the tank and then taking the boat for a trip.

 

If the problems persist then I will get the fuel polished, which hopefully will remove any remaining traces of sediment.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

The engine is a Beta 43. The WASP filter is between the tank and the lift pump which in turn is before the filter mounted on the engine. I don't think the lift pump has a strainer fitted.

 

Today I pumped some fuel from the bottom of the tank and let it settle. It is a clear red colour.

 

There is some light brown sediment that usually isn't there which hopefully I have removed but I was surprised to find no trace of water. See photo.

 

I have added a shock dose of Marine 16 Diesel Bug Treatment and will leave it a few days before trying to pump out any further sediment from the bottom of the tank and then taking the boat for a trip.

 

If the problems persist then I will get the fuel polished, which hopefully will remove any remaining traces of sediment.

 

 

 

I agree that your lift pump is unlikely to have a strainer inside it, but please ensure the fuel is flowing through the Wasp in the correct direction.

 

If you leave the sample to stand for a few days, you may well find some water separates out. However, I don't like the look of it. Even if it is just emulsified water and diesel, I think it could block the Wasp and any other filter. It could be the result of you or a supplier adding a fuel additive too the tank or bulk tank.

 

Although the wasp does not look like it RCR found some filters were getting coated in a pale brown/off-white waxy coating and a testing company put it down to an interaction between the fuel and an unknown additive

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree that your lift pump is unlikely to have a strainer inside it, but please ensure the fuel is flowing through the Wasp in the correct direction.

 

If you leave the sample to stand for a few days, you may well find some water separates out. However, I don't like the look of it. Even if it is just emulsified water and diesel, I think it could block the Wasp and any other filter. It could be the result of you or a supplier adding a fuel additive too the tank or bulk tank.

 

Although the wasp does not look like it RCR found some filters were getting coated in a pale brown/off-white waxy coating and a testing company put it down to an interaction between the fuel and an unknown additive

 

Thanks Tony,

 

The WASP filter was replaced by River Canal Rescue a few years ago when I broke my leg and got them to service the engine rather than do it myself. The  "engineer" managed to overtighten the bleed screw and crack the boss on the filter body that it screws into, causing a steady leak into the bilge.

 

After much denial by RCR as to them being responsible, I sent photos of the damage to the the WASP manufacturer, who confirmed that it could only have been damaged by over tightening. Even then RCR tried to claim it could have been like that before they attended, so I asked were their engineers so incompetent that they wouldn't notice a bilge full of diesel before commencing a service. That did the trick and they eventually paid for and fitted a new one, but could have fitted it the wrong way around.

 

I'll take a photo of the connections later and ask you to comment.

 

I also heard about additives causing waxy filters, but have not used any additives since you advised using a syphon to remove water from the bottom of the tank annually rather than additives a few years ago. I use a cheap syphon pump to remove water from the tank every year. My filter was not waxy.

 

 

 

 

Here is a photo of my WASP filter. It appears to be connected correctly as the fuel input from the tank (the line with the isolating valve on it) goes to the right hand connection with the arrows on the filter pointing from  right to left.

Edited June 28 by cuthound
To add spaces between merged posts

[Alan de Enfield]

Is that corrugated hose between the stop-tap and the filter the actual fuel hose, or is the fuel hose inside and that is 'protection' ?

 

It looks like the end fitting screw directly onto the stop tap and filter.

 

If that is the fuel hose, is it correctly maked with the ISO number and the manufacturing date.

Who installed it ?

 

I have never seen a fuel hose like that used in a boat.

 

2.10.2
Are all fuel feed, return and on-engine hoses suitable for the fuel used and fire resistant?   R

 

Fuel feed, return and on-engine hoses must be marked, to denote both suitability for the fuel used and fire resistance, to BS EN ISO 7840 or an equivalent standard.

 

Applicability – hoses marked to SAE J 1527, DIN 4798 or RINA DIP/66/96 are acceptable.
Applicability – the presence of armoured or other external braiding is not evidence of hose suitability or fire resistance. Such hoses must be marked as above.
Applicability – fuel-hose suitability may be supported by a written declaration from the hose manufacturer or supplier or, if appropriate, from the engine manufacturer/supplier or mariniser.

[cuthound]

No it is a steel reinforced flexible conduit protecting the copper fuel pipe. The conduit stops just short of the connection to the filter.

 

The copper pipe isn't marked with an ISO number, but the flexible yellow hose between filter and engine is.

 

It was installed by the "boatbuilder" - Kingsground Narrowboat and has passed four BSS examinations by four different BSS examiners.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

52 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that corrugated hose between the stop-tap and the filter the actual fuel hose, or is the fuel hose inside and that is 'protection' ?

 

It looks like the end fitting screw directly onto the stop tap and filter.

 

If that is the fuel hose, is it correctly maked with the ISO number and the manufacturing date.

Who installed it ?

 

I have never seen a fuel hose like that used in a boat.

 

 

It looks like Spirwrap that is used for cable bundling, carefully installed with the split at the bottom where we cat, see it. I think I can see copper pipe at one end fitting.

 

Cuthound, the Wasp looks as if it has been properly installed, you can see the little flow direction arrow heads cast into the top. The way the filter in the first photo seemed darker (more contaminated) on the inside must just be at rick of the light.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

No it is a steel reinforced flexible conduit protecting the copper fuel pipe. The conduit stops just short of the connection to the filter.

 

That is what I thought it looked like, but it looked to be terminated with compression glands.

 

19 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The copper pipe isn't marked with an ISO number,

 

It wouldn.t be.

[cuthound]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks like Spirwrap that is used for cable bundling, carefully installed with the split at the bottom where we cat, see it. I think I can see copper pipe at one end fitting.

 

Cuthound, the Wasp looks as if it has been properly installed, you can see the little flow direction arrow heads cast into the top. The way the filter in the first photo seemed darker (more contaminated) on the inside must just be at rick of the light.

 

 

 

The filter element is a reddish colour, presumably by the red diesel and the contaminant is a creamy beige colour with the consistency of yogurt.

[john.k]

The diesel 'bug' is a mix of fungi and bacteria that grow on the interface between water and hydrocarbon ...............the very favouritest place in all the world for these bugs is fuel  filter paper  wet with both fuel and water ...........one local maker of 296 elements supplies a paper element treated with 'silicone' to make it water repellent .....the elements are marked with an 'S' .............The simplest way to remove the bug is to remove all the water from the tank. 

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, john.k said:

The diesel 'bug' is a mix of fungi and bacteria that grow on the interface between water and hydrocarbon ...............the very favouritest place in all the world for these bugs is fuel  filter paper  wet with both fuel and water ...........one local maker of 296 elements supplies a paper element treated with 'silicone' to make it water repellent .....the elements are marked with an 'S' .............The simplest way to remove the bug is to remove all the water from the tank. 

 

I remove the water from the tank annually with a siphon pump. I have checked the filler cap seal and it is sound, and the sample I drew from the tank, which has now settled for 2 days, shows no sign of water.

 

I reckon my last fill must have been contaminated. My near neighbours boat, which filled from the same source now also has diesel bug...

[jacko264]

may be a daft question  but if you put the diesel through a ev light like ponds use would it kill the bug ?

[David Mack]

On 28/06/2024 at 13:21, cuthound said:

 

Today I pumped some fuel from the bottom of the tank and let it settle. It is a clear red colour.

 

There is some light brown sediment that usually isn't there which hopefully I have removed but I was surprised to find no trace of water. See photo.

Are you sure? That looks very much like half an inch of water at the bottom of that container to me.

[cuthound]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are you sure? That looks very much like half an inch of water at the bottom of that container to me.

 

No that's the bug. Four days on it still looks the same.

 

I treated it with Marine 16 Diesel Bug Treatment 4 days ago, and will draw some more off the bottom of the tank today to see what is happening.

Edited July 2 by cuthound
Clarification

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are you sure? That looks very much like half an inch of water at the bottom of that container to me.

 

 

And to me (+ some bug)

 

 

 

Edited July 2 by Alan de Enfield

[cuthound]

So today I had the tank cleaned and the fuel polished by JC Fuel Polishing Services, 07757 661307, who came from Bath, had great reviews and was very reasonably priced. His arrival was delayed by the local council choosing today to close my road so they could resurface it.

 

Joe removed the fuel filler fitting to improve access, then pumped the "good" diesel (that above the contamination at the bottom of the tank) into a 205 litre drum.

 

He then used a wet vac to remove the sediment, water and heavily contaminated diesel from the bottom of the tank before inspecting the bottom of the tank and removing any sediment left behind in the corners. This process found the remains of the steel disc that had been cut out to form the hole for the fuel filler fitting when the boat was built!

 

The saved, but contaminated fuel was then pumped back into the tank and passed through the filters to remove all remaining contaminants and any emulsified water. 

 

The whole process took about two and a half hours and Joe left my mooring and boat immaculately clean, despite fuel polishing potentially being a very messy process.

 

The photos below show the process and contamination removed.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27 by cuthound
To add spaces between photos