Narrow lock chamber construction

[Chris Bailey]

I am a co-opted Trustee,  Lichfield and Hatherton Canal Restoration Trust

 

I am researching original drawings of narrow lock chamber construction- no joy in the waterways archive

 

Does anyone have copies of the above or can point me in the correct direction?

 

Regards

 

Chris Bailey

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Welcome to the forum.

Is it specifically Lichfield and Hatherton locks you are interested in, or narrow lock construction in general? Modern restoration construction, or the most effective of traditional methods?

[Chris Bailey]

All of the above !! BCN original construction drawings would be good but we will also need modern/Restoration drawings for future restoration 

Many thanks

Chris

[Lady M]

In terms of comparing to new lock construction, I suggest taking a look at the Curdworth relocated top lock.  

[David Mack]

You could ask CRT what they do when they (or BW before them) have had to construct a new lock. That said, their record isn't that good. The 1970s Stoke Bottom Lock has the top paddle culverts entering the chamber beneath the top gate cill, which sets up much more turbulence than the usual arrangement of side entries, the new lock on the Curdworth flight to accommodate the M42 is shorter than the rest of the B&F locks, and the new lock on the Rochdale for the M62 diversion is much longer and wider than the other Rochdale Canal locks!

[Lady M]

I wasn't aware that Curdworth top is shorter but I do think it looks authentic.  I was horrified by the new locks on the Droitwich Narrow Canal with their huge concrete cills and square entry walls.  

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, Lady M said:

I was horrified by the new locks on the Droitwich Narrow Canal with their huge concrete cills and square entry walls. 

Yes. I should have thought to include those. The square entries are completely unnecessary and surely didn't cost significantly (or any) less than conventional splayed approaches. Similarly the introduction of a staircase pair in the middle of the flight, when there looks to be room to accommodate two single locks, has just added unnecessarily to the water consumption on the flight.

[Pluto]

In 2006/7 I was asked by BW to search for what was available in archives related to lock gate and paddle construction. There is virtually nothing from the 18th century related to canal construction surviving, apart from some written specifications. There may be more information in canal company minutes, and I have just transcribed some of those in the L&LC records, and have started on the engineer's reports in the Lancaster Canal archives, though there are few specific details re lock construction. It would seem that drawings or models were held by the site engineer, and these did not survived after construction was completed. 19th century lock gate drawings have survived from the more successful canals, and some of those railway owned, as both would have access to a drawing office. That said, I have only found a few outline drawings for L&LC lock gates, but have found a notebook with specific dimensions for each lock, but no details of what timber size should be used, as any of the canal's woodworkers would have that detail in some form already. I could suggest that you purchase a copy of my recent book from the RCHS, as that is a translation of an engineering book written by an Austrian engineer who visited canal works in England in 1796 and returned to Vienna to build what was, in effect, and English narrow canal. However, each canal would have had its own specific design, and even that would vary from contractor to contractor.

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

the introduction of a staircase pair in the middle of the flight, when there looks to be room to accommodate two single locks, has just added unnecessarily to the water consumption on the flight.

 

Has it?  

 

Surely we all understand that cycling a lock uses exactly that lock's volume (L x W x rise) of water.  I can't see why a staircase would use more than the suggested two locks worth of water.

[Lady M]

My issue with the staircase specifically was the lack of a bridge across the middle.  Perhaps that has been remedied since we went through it.  Having to run all the way round the lock to drop paddles in an emergency, instead of nipping across a bridge, looked to me like an accident waiting to happen.

[magpie patrick]

56 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Yes. I should have thought to include those. The square entries are completely unnecessary and surely didn't cost significantly (or any) less than conventional splayed approaches. Similarly the introduction of a staircase pair in the middle of the flight, when there looks to be room to accommodate two single locks, has just added unnecessarily to the water consumption on the flight.

 

Ahem... I signed off on that! Well, I reviewed it and gave comments - I was okay with the two-rise.

 

Cut fill balance, and by the time the decision was made we knew there'd be a marina above it which would screw the water balance anyway. 

 

I was less happy with the square approaches and recommended 45 degree fendering as a minimum, but that didn't happen. 

 

To add - the hydraulic balance is also affected by the side ponds at Hanbury 

[Ronaldo47]

I remember reading that the records of one of the old canal companys were lost when their offices received a direct hit in a bombing raid during WWII. 

[Chris Bailey]

1 hour ago, Pluto said:

In 2006/7 I was asked by BW to search for what was available in archives related to lock gate and paddle construction. There is virtually nothing from the 18th century related to canal construction surviving, apart from some written specifications. There may be more information in canal company minutes, and I have just transcribed some of those in the L&LC records, and have started on the engineer's reports in the Lancaster Canal archives, though there are few specific details re lock construction. It would seem that drawings or models were held by the site engineer, and these did not survived after construction was completed. 19th century lock gate drawings have survived from the more successful canals, and some of those railway owned, as both would have access to a drawing office. That said, I have only found a few outline drawings for L&LC lock gates, but have found a notebook with specific dimensions for each lock, but no details of what timber size should be used, as any of the canal's woodworkers would have that detail in some form already. I could suggest that you purchase a copy of my recent book from the RCHS, as that is a translation of an engineering book written by an Austrian engineer who visited canal works in England in 1796 and returned to Vienna to build what was, in effect, and English narrow canal. However, each canal would have had its own specific design, and even that would vary from contractor to contractor.

Thanks very much - most useful

Thanks very much - most useful

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Having worked through a lot of narrow locks around the network, I'd say that you won't go far wrong copying later BCN designs. There was a combination of very long history in commercial use and a tremendous amount of traffic at times, so over the years, and with many rebuilt at various times, the design  optimised ease of use and speed. Have you tried the BCNS, to see what they have in their records?

[Chris Bailey]

I have tried the BCNS

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Surely we all understand that cycling a lock uses exactly that lock's volume (L x W x rise) of water.  I can't see why a staircase would use more than the suggested two locks worth of water.

Arrive at the top when both locks are full and you empty 2 lockfuls of water into the lower pound. Arrive at the bottom and you take 2 lockfuls of water from the upper pound. If they had been 2 conventional single locks, both of those scenarios would only use one lockful.

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

To add - the hydraulic balance is also affected by the side ponds at Hanbury 

But if the sideponds are used properly (and I accept that sometimes they aren't and last time I came through one was out of order anyway) that should save 1/3-1/2 a lockful which should make the consumption similar to the shallower locks below (staircase excepted).

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 

Ahem... I signed off on that! Well, I reviewed it and gave comments - I was okay with the two-rise.

 

Cut fill balance,

And apart from the earthworks, with less lock wall in total, one fewer gate and set of paddles, a little cheaper in construction cost too. And presumably somebody assessed that cost saving as being worth the increased water consumption in the longer term.

[Momac]

Maybe a  society that has overseen the construction of locks i recent years could help , in return for a suitable donation.

http://www.granthamcanal.org/gchi-blog11318/

 

 

[Pluto]

6 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I remember reading that the records of one of the old canal companys were lost when their offices received a direct hit in a bombing raid during WWII. 

The Leeds & Liverpool's offices were destroyed during that war. This was the entrance doorway in the 1950s. Liverpool Warehousing built their offices on the site in Pall Mall, the old warehouse managers house id beyond, and the Canal Mission was just beyond the warehouse.

[Chris Lowe]

2 hours ago, Momac said:

Maybe a  society that has overseen the construction of locks i recent years could help , in return for a suitable donation.

http://www.granthamcanal.org/gchi-blog11318/

 

 

Also the Wey & Arun canal trust have built locks recently

[Rob-M]

The Cotswold Canal Trust have built and restored locks recently.

[Francis Herne]

6 hours ago, Chris Bailey said:

I have tried the BCNS

Did Phil (either of them) find you anything useful? I'd be surprised if there isn't something like that in the archives.

 

I'm sure I've seen drawings of the Tame Valley locks in a book or perhaps online, but can't think where. Will sleep on it...

[Chris Bailey]

I am in touch with Phil

[IanM]

11 hours ago, Rob-M said:

The Cotswold Canal Trust have built and restored locks recently.

 

Restored yes, built no.  Although that will soon change.

 

Besides, the OP specifically asked about narrow locks although in fairness there probably isn't that much difference in reality.

[jonesthenuke]

Just a thought, but are there any derelict locks that would give an idea of construction and design? I am thinking of the scenario where part of the walls have collapsed, thus allowing an insight into brickwork thickness etc.

[BD3Bill]

Surely the lock at Phil Jones dockyard ,as an extant example , would give a most accurate picture. Plus the special cutaway must give detail of what the walls were like and how they were tied back to the bank/infill when it was modified?