Diesel

[Andyaero]

Is all the stuff sold on canals red diesel or does it vary?

Are you allowed to put it in jerry cans in order to keep an emergency supply for the boat, should you get low?

Is it an unspoken thing that some canal folk may have put it in their road vehicle?

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Its against the law to put it in a road vehicle 

[Tracy D'arth]

If caught with red in a road vehicle you risk having the vehicle take off you. Same applies to cooking oil and chip fryer waste.

[Momac]

[ditchcrawler]

The other point, yes it is red that is sold canal side, whether they will fill cans is up to the supplier 

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, Andyaero said:

Is all the stuff sold on canals red diesel or does it vary?

Are you allowed to put it in jerry cans in order to keep an emergency supply for the boat, should you get low?

 

 

 

Retailers  such as marinas who are selling for boat use will be providing red diesel.

You can carry a spare can on the boat if you wish. 

I don't see why a retailer would object to filling a can. A local farmer was filling a 20L tub at a  marina when we  were there for fuel last year.

[Andyaero]

Thanks all, I'm fully aware of the legalities, hence why I didn't ask about them.

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Andyaero said:

Thanks all, I'm fully aware of the legalities, hence why I didn't ask about them.

Third line of your original post was bound to get comment 

[Andyaero]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Third line of your original post was bound to get comment 

Yeah just wondered if anyone would stick their head above the parapet or is everyone totally legit. I do plan to continue to use my dodgy Firestick for TV reception.

[LadyG]

19 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If caught with red in a road vehicle you risk having the vehicle take off you. Same applies to cooking oil and chip fryer waste.

I thought they were testing for the dye, which would not be present in cooking oil, but you are correct t it would be illegal to use the stuff to avoid paying tax.

 

I have bought gas oil, it's red, from a garage, filled in a form with the reg number of the car and stated 'heating'.

[Ken X]

When I was living near Poole in Dorset it was quite common to see Customs and Excise dipping car tanks around the marinas.  They used to do good business I understand.

[Ex Brummie]

Spot checks are quite common in busy urban areas, often targetting minicabs😉

[dmr]

Yes Yes and Yes.

A few boaters even boast about using red in their cars.

If you have an old banger that you can afford to loose, and can pay the fine, and won't be ruined by a criminal record then its probably a good gamble, the chances of getting caught are fairly low. I have only once seen a roadside check taking place. I am very surprised that customs and excise do not target canalside car parks in places popular with liveaboard boaters.

[Momac]

35 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

A few boaters even boast about using red in their cars.

Reminds me of a chap who boasted in the pub about  successfully arranging for his car to be nicked and torched. One of his drinking pals reported him . 

[cheesegas]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Retailers  such as marinas who are selling for boat use will be providing red diesel.

You can carry a spare can on the boat if you wish. 

I don't see why a retailer would object to filling a can. A local farmer was filling a 20L tub at a  marina when we  were there for fuel last year.

Seems to be hit and miss. Two marinas on the Thames refused to fill my jerrycan, but in the past I haven't had any canal-based marinas refuse.

[nb Innisfree]

You're allowed to use veg oil in your car if it's less than 2,500 lts per year. 

Quote:

"If you have produced less than 2,500 litres in the last 12 months, or if you expect to produce less than this amount in the next 12 months, you may be an exempt producer.

If you’re an exempt producer you only need to keep production records (read step 3 in the list of steps), find out more in paragraph 4.2.1."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/biofuels-and-other-fuel-substitutes-excise-notice-179e-from-1-april-2022#biofuel-producers-obligations

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

You're allowed to use veg oil in your car if it's less than 2,500 lts per year. 

Quote:

"If you have produced less than 2,500 litres in the last 12 months, or if you expect to produce less than this amount in the next 12 months, you may be an exempt producer.

If you’re an exempt producer you only need to keep production records (read step 3 in the list of steps), find out more in paragraph 4.2.1."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/biofuels-and-other-fuel-substitutes-excise-notice-179e-from-1-april-2022#biofuel-producers-obligations

I have been trying to find that rather than rely on my memory of the days I used to make my own biodiesel.

[jonathanA]

A petrol station near me sells red. They specifically wont sell it for inland boat use. I buy it for my agricultural tractor. I think non commercial electricity generation is also allowable. Use in 'plant' like diggers is no longer allowed.  

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

A petrol station near me sells red. They specifically wont sell it for inland boat use. I buy it for my agricultural tractor. I think non commercial electricity generation is also allowable. Use in 'plant' like diggers is no longer allowed.  

 

It was a bit of an interogation when getting red at my local garage after the recent changes in regulations. A few garages will sell for boats but I assume that strictly they should collect the propulsion duty if they know its for a boat????

[jonathanA]

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

It was a bit of an interogation when getting red at my local garage after the recent changes in regulations. A few garages will sell for boats but I assume that strictly they should collect the propulsion duty if they know its for a boat????

Yes the station I'm talking about is fairly close to the Lancaster canal and I assume they don't want the hassle and they have a sign saying they will not sell for use on inland water. 

They used to sell 20L drums and think they did a good trade selling to the construction trade. I did wonder if they would stop selling it altogether but so far so good.

[Momac]

21 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

 Use in 'plant' like diggers is no longer allowed.  

Since April 2022

 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Since April 2022

 

Time flies

[Momac]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Time flies

I do wish time would slow down a bit

[booke23]

2 hours ago, jonathanA said:

A petrol station near me sells red. They specifically wont sell it for inland boat use. I buy it for my agricultural tractor. I think non commercial electricity generation is also allowable. Use in 'plant' like diggers is no longer allowed.  

 

Just tell them you're using it for heating.

[jonathanA]

10 hours ago, MartynG said:

Since April 2022

 

yes there was quite a fuss and good deal of confusion at the time. all the plant hire companies suddenly started saying if you used red in their machines they'd charge you for cleaning the fuel tanks, disposing of the old diesel and a new tank of white....  

 

8 hours ago, booke23 said:

 

Just tell them you're using it for heating.

HMRC say:

4. Other machines and appliances

Any other machine or appliance (that is not a vehicle or a vessel) can use red diesel when it’s being used:

• for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture, aquatic farming or forestry
• for purposes relating to arboriculture
• to operate or maintain equipment in a travelling fair or travelling circus
• for generating electricity or heating primarily for use in or on non-commercial premises

A machine or appliance (that is not a vehicle or a vessel) can also use red diesel when it’s being used for any purpose on:

• private land where it’s kept and used for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture, aquatic farming or forestry — for example, a farmer who keeps a machine on their own, or anyone else’s, land that they use in agriculture, can use the machine for any other purposes on that land
• a golf course, driving range or land maintained by a community amateur sports club

A kerosene heating system can use rebated fuel for generating heat for any premises.

A machine or appliance should only contain rebated fuel if it’s being used, or was last used, for one of these purposes.

A machine or appliance is liable to seizure and financial sanction, if it is found containing rebated fuel that should not be in it.